joeandcarol2

It seems that most people on this forum are obsessed with the numbers, 0-60, 1/4 mile time and speed, skidpad etc. A sports car is not about these numbers. Its about a car that steers precisely with lots of feedback, shifts easily with a "snick", can be powered into a bit of oversteer in a predictable manner etc. Its about a car that can not only make its way along twisty roads at a brisk pace but does it in a way that makes driving it a pleasure. Performance and ergonmics.
I really could give a crap whether or not I could beat an M3 in a quarter mile run. Get a mustang if that is important to you.

Flyingscot

I think it is only natural to want more car. The higher the initial performance numbers the longer it takes to fall short of our desires. I don't see how we can avoid this basic instict that 90% of males (and some females) exhibit, regardless of what it is that's being purchased.

For example,

one's T.V. could always be bigger;
one's Sterio could always be louder;
one's PC could always be faster;
one's microwave could always cook more evenly.

Get the point!

BrianZ

Well, since the web doesn't let you drive cars, and "precisely" "feel" and "snick" are subjective terms, we get to discuss numbers.

robbyn

We have nothing to go on but speculation about numbers and I find the speculation interesting. Nevertheless, I mostly agreed with your point, because I'm buying this car because it will be fun to drive not because of its stats. But you lost me once you started personally attacking people who disagree with you i.e. "it shows your immaturity as drivers." Hopefully "the flames [won't] begin.' That is not what this site is about... take it over to zcar if you want to start a flame war...seems to me your post showed "your immaturity as [a poster]."

AdamLotz (Z FIEND)

The idea that 0-60 or 1/4 mile times are not important in a sportscar is totally delusional. The only people that preach this are the ones with slow "sporty" cars.

I don't want a sporty car. I want a sports car. And I definitely don't want to be caught looking at the ***-end of a MUSTANG of all things, at a light. DOH. Maybe I'll keep the twin turbo.

Goober

And I heard that NASCAR was changing its rules that it won't award trophies anymore to who wins the race but to who looks like they had the most pleasure driving that day.

I don't mean to flame you as I bought this car and the ZXTT for the reasons you mention, and that is mostly what I care about. I do know that sports cars are all about numbers though. No, 0-60 doesn't mean you have the best car, but all those numbers combined usually lead to being at the top.

john0213

pls don't flame, just talk~

BrianZ

While I don't condone a flame, I would say it is appropriate in this case since the thread was started purely to complain about other people who discuss numbers.

What goes around comes around.

z350z

To me performance (including acceleration) is very important in a car. But I think to say that's what a sportscar is all about is not true. Traditionally, sportscars were never extremely powerful or even quick or fast -- think of the MGs and Triumphs of old. It was all about a nimble feel and great driving experience. Only the exotic supercars had super performance and sportscar handling in one car. Muscle cars were about speed and power and sportscars were for fun and handling.

OK, I know it's 2002 now and people expect more. But because of history, the definition of "sportscar" is not that cut-and-dried.

olzilver

I do not think that all people should or need to worry about times and comparos with other cars. It's really all subjectively based on the individual's tastes. But, if you do,imho, that does not make one necessarily immature-that's the fun in it all. Knowing how to enjoy your time (work, sleep, eat, obsess over numbers, whatever) is a mark of maturity. Less mature folks say that they are bored. If the majority of members here were bored or thought that their time was being wasted, I'm sure they would not be here.
Now...what will the 0-60 time be again?

TCL

A different way to look at it is that all of the following factors are important attributes of a sports car and that the car with the best combination of these attributes is the winner:

Acceleration, power band, handling (lateral G’s, stability, transient response, etc), braking, styling, sound (engine and exhaust), steering feel, shift linkage feel, overall driving ergonomics, and heritage (yes, I know, some wouldn't weight this last factor too highly).

I think when we finally get our hands on the 350Z, we’ll find that it has a very impressive score when taking all the above attributes together as a yardstick.

brackethead

I agree with joeandcarol2's basic point here. And I agree personal attacks are out of line.

BUT, I have to say I think the mod on the original post was not called for. That was a pretty benign statement as those things go. Let's not get carried away with the censorship.

robbyn

I don't know, I think calling people "immature" for no reason and inviting a flame war is on the border of what is acceptable at this site. I wouldn't have censored it if I was a moderator, but I do think reasonable minds can differ on whether that should have been censored. The ironic thing is that I quoted the offending statement in my reply, so far my quote has not been censored. Que sera, sera.

tbcz

Yes Brackethead, that was a borderline call. I thought twice about editing it. I think you would agree that the second post I edited was warranted (if you read it before I did). I read the original post earlier today, and left it alone. Once I started seeing unacceptable responses to it, I thought it best to remove the two sentences whose only purpose seemed to me to start an argument. Even the poster who started this thread knew it when they placed the original post. Tip: if you end your post with the line "Bring on the flames, I'm ready" or something similar, you should probably think twice before hitting send.

I am still puzzled by the confusion over the simple rules we have here. Contrary to what you may think, they exist solely to encourage the expression of different opinions and different points of view. I think people should feel free to come here and say whatever they think, without fear of being attacked by fellow members. I think in the long run, this will lead to a much more productive, open, and therefore enjoyable site. We all know what happens when things aren't monitored as closely. If you want to argue and insult other members, I think you know what site you should visit. It's not this one.

I disagree that censorship is getting carried away on this site. I think this thread makes a grand total of five threads where I've edited something. Along with the actions of Jay and the other mods, that amounts to a tiny percentage of the 20,000+ posts in 1600+ threads so far. I take this stuff very seriously, and think long and hard before taking any action. I am commited, however, to upholding the standards which Jay has set for my350z.com. I don't think it's too much to ask that members follow the simple rules when posting: don't start fights, don't insult or belittle other members, no racist or sexist comments, and refrain from cursing like a drunken sailor in your posts. Granted, it's a fine line, one which is easy to unwittingly cross when placing a post, as well as when editing one. But the mods on here do not take this lightly. We will continue to maintain the integrity and friendliness of this site.

Tim

P.S. Sorry for the novel. Sometimes I just don't know when to shut up!

tbcz

Oh...and robbyn...I know I left the stuff in the quote in your post. Like I said, it wasn't that objectionable to begin with, and I alreday spent too much time on this fairly trivial matter anyway (see last post!) Thanks for your insightful comments. When I first saw that you had replied, I was afraid you were going to tear me a new one...

rai

If you think acceleration is overrated why not get a miata? I once had a 1.9L Z3 it had all the things you say you likes, looks, road feel, snick shifts, good response, fun to drive. My biggest gripe was not being able to out accelerate a V-6 accord. I soon figured out that my 138 HP car while fun to drive was too slow for me. I like all those atributes you mention, but I also need some Gravatis (or whatever you call it).

joeandcarol2

I'll say that my comment on imaturity was borne of frustration abou the endless posts concerning 0-60 both here and on other forums on this car. Accerleration is important. but if this car had a 0-60 time of 5.8 seconds instead of 5.4 (car and driver time I think) would you not buy the car (ask for you deposit back)? I myself would be more concerned about how the steering felt. You will live with that every day you drive the car. The 0-60 time is only about "my car is better than yours" which is silly (and my original imaturity comment was based on that).

BrianZ

I thought you were a G35 coupe man. Why are you still badgering this topic?

tbcz

joeandcarol2,

I pretty much agree with you about the relevance of a few tenths of a second to my enjoyment of the car. Hell, I had a Mazda 323 hatchback back in the late '80s, and the thing could barely get out of it's own way. But you know what? It was a hoot to drive. There's a reason why the Miata has been hailed by every major car mag as a landmark, and it sure ain't because of it's lightning acceleration.

Still, I hope you understand why I edited your post earlier. There are those who feel that a sports cars greatness should be measured with a stopwatch, and that's fine. Disagree with them, tell them why you think they're wrong, but please don't insult them. I wouldn't let them do it to you either.