I'm sorry for what happened to you but unfortunately this, and what are much more serious, kinds of injustices go unpunished every day in the United States. It's not fair at all to place the blame on the kids that didn't follow through with their testimony; think about the risk to their well being if they were to testify. They could have been beat up, seriously maimed, houses shot at, even killed for something like that, and for what? Just so they can have a little satisfaction of doing the right thing? The real burden lies with the justice system. The justice system is such a crap-shoot in the United States that it is NO wonder why the U.S. has the highest murder and violent crime rate in the industrialized world.

If this happened in Japan, the police would be all over that kid, a few hours after the incident. Nevermind the idea of "guilty beyond a reasonable doubt" that kid would have been in prison a few hours after the incident and restitution probably already paid to the victim. In Japan, if the police have even the slightest reason to suspect guilt, then its pretty much over for the accused. Yes, the rate of convictions on people whom are truly innocent is undoubtedly higher; but the result is a country where an old lady can walk down the street at 2 in the morning and NEVER have to worry about getting robbed. This is the reason why Japan has the LOWEST murder rate, some 20 times lower than the United States and violent crime rate literally hundreds of times lower.

Americans live in cities where the quality of life and amount of crime in some areas is WORSE than in many 3rd world countries! Simply amazing. American society doesn't want to change and unfortunately this is the kind of culture and justice system that ends up as a result. Americans live in this kind of society under the deluded beliefs that it is "normal" and "acceptable", but it is not. Good people have to suffer because of an inept justice system and the actions of the few criminally minded whom believe, and are often correct, they can get away with whatever they want.

 

Shut the hell up and read the rest before you open your mouth. Unless you're one of those liberals then it doesn't concern you. And if you are I could still care less. Cheers.

 

Sucks!

 

authoritarian regime, anyone?

 

i am a liberal.
i suppose you're a back wood conservative hick. probably religious and racist. (that's just how it is in the bible belt, right?)
i've actually read this entire thread including what you were saying to that guy. just didnt like you opening your hick mouth tossing out weird and inappropriate insults. i was insulted.
i know you could care less, but i think you were being a jerkoff. cheers.

 

Alright guys...chill out. This thread has gone very well up until the last page or two. Don't screw it up....please.

 

"YOUR"??? "deseve"??? "Obvoiusly"??? "naieve"???

Imagine the irony if you are in fact the punk's dad. Your son is out vandalizing cars instead of in school learning, and you are writing at a 3rd grade level... Congratulations on the high standards in your family!!!

 

Will do.

 

Sorry, but as much as I'd like to see the kid that did this to my car fry, I can't buy into what you're saying. From your description, it sounds like in Japan discretionary justice is handed out by the authorities, not by the people. And the people do the right thing (or at least not the wrong thing) because of a fear of an overzealous government and not because of a sense of what's right.

Obviously, based on the crime statistics in this country, a lot of Americans (hopefully not most) don't manage their lives based on what's right, but that doesn't mean that the people in leadership positions (police, judges, politicians, etc.) should be allowed to take justice into their own hands and sidestep a person's rights. The constitution and our justice system have always been a double edged sword that unfortunately will continue to make mistakes. But those mistakes will usually result in a person's freedom instead of their imprisonment, and I wouldn’t want it any other way. In my case the thug got away, but not because of a flawed justice system.

As for the kids that saw what happened but did not come forward, I agree with you that testifying could have possibly resulted in them being hurt (the 2 boys that did testify are fine); but given the choice of fearing a fellow citizen or fearing an overzealous government; I’ll take the former any day; and I would have expected my kids to step forward in that situation.

And there is strength in numbers. Over 20 kids saw this happen. The thug would have been hard pressed to take on all of them, but still only 2 came forward.

Also, at the risk of being flamed for getting on a soapbox, I personally don’t believe that your view of the Japanese justice system has anything to do with low crime rates. Instead, I believe it’s the conservative culture and high importance placed on a traditional family that has lead to the low crime rates. For example, in 1990, only 14% of households with children were single parent households, but by 2005 that number increased to 22% and guess what—during the same time period the number of crimes per 100K people increased by 38%. Coincidence? In the US, last I saw, single parent households are close to 50%.

And as for the overzealous Japanese police, in 2005, they arrested someone for 17% of every crime that was reported. I don’t know what the number is in the US, but 17% doesn’t seem overly aggressive to me.

I believe that people in the US spend way too much time bashing, blaming and pushing responsibility onto someone or something (or justice system or government) else, when really they should be looking inward to figure out what the real problem is.

 

printing out and framing wow!!

 

As Edmund Burke said....

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing



If we have a society of people who are afraid to do the right thing, then we are lost.

 

I really think I probably would have honestly no $hit killed that little punk p.o.s out of sheer rage. at the very very minimum I would burn his house down.

what highschool was this by the way? I live out that way?

 

I can't stand those highschool bullies. It's okay though... Most likely your son will go to college and he will be stuck at Burger King flipping burgers. And what's even better is that your son will be able to bang his girlfriend's brain out a few years down the road and he won't be able to do a thing about it. {Talking from personal experience}.

 

Your comments project you to be similar in personal nature to the boy who did the damage in this case. If you think this is all the OP's fault, you are a complete idiot. You may not agree (understandably) w/ his decision to let a kid drive an expensive car like that, however you are dismissing the criminal from any fault in the matter? Do you know how stupid you sound?

I imagine you will come back w/ a low-IQ insult of some variety. The truth is, you are a jealous person and instead of overcoming it and working to get what you want out of life, you lash out at others.

 

lol...yeh that's a good joke, comparing a Z to an Fcar. One a more serious note, if I were the OP, this kid would be taking a ride out to the country, at gunpoint, in the back of a rental van. Once we reached our predetermined destination he would be stripped naked and put on his knees and made to believe his life was a few minutes from being over. Then I'd leave him there...wouldn't be the first...

 

Even if the premise that more single parent households leads to a greater crime rate were true and and assuming a linear relationship the crime rate in the U.S. should still only be 4-5 times higher than Japan. Considering the fact that violent crime is literally dozens to hundreds of times higher in the U.S. than Japan, clearly the idea that single parent households are the root cause is a little absurd. Moreover, how do you separate the cause and effect? In regards to the 17% arrest rate, well if you think about it, that's probably because most crime in Japan is so petty it doesn't warrant an arrest. It helps if these things are considered in a logical manner. The argument that violent assaults are 25 times higher in the U.S. than Japan because of the rate of single parents is pretty ridiculous. It's kinda like the argument that violent video games are responsible for violence and crime among youths. If that premise were true that Japan should be a seething cesspool of violence and terror. It's really quite simple, criminals in the U.S. largely do what they do because they get away with it.

I understand the attitudes people may have as citizens of the largest economic and military power in the world, but the United States is not the "best" at everything. Automobile manufacturing is one example, health care is another, and the criminal justice system is yet another. The attitude of "we are the best" and "we don't need to change" only hurts yourselves. Speaking of "authoritarian regimes", a country that arrests people and holds them without trial or legal recourse indefinitely seems pretty " authoritarian" to me.


While I certainly agree with the idea that values play a large part in the dynamics of a society, including crime, the important question becomes " What shapes values"? Surely the idea of reward and consequence come into play as they are powerful motivators of behavior. Additionally, I would definitely concede that family plays a large role in Japanese society, but it can hardly be described as a "conservative culture". The Japanese are actually quite progressive in their beliefs. Health care is nationalized, they have a pacifist constitution with strict gun-control laws, believe quite strongly in a commitment to the environment, and value education very highly. The only common ground that the Japanese have, in general, with "conservatives" is their commitment to family.

Anybody that thinks the U.S. justice system is a shining example of what works, needs to put their attitude that "America is best" aside for just a moment and do a little honest, open-minded due diligence. Those attitudes are some of the reasons why General Motors and Ford are now selling junk bonds while Toyota is rated AAA.

Here's something pulled off the web, but the numbers seem, at first glance, to be roughly consistent with statistics from research I've done in the past. I tried to pull off numbers from the FBI's UCR, but it was too much of a headache. If any of you are interested in knowing the exact statistics I encourage you to do further research on your own. I'm not representing these numbers as authoritative or completely accurate, just a rough guide, for want of a more thorough and exhaustive statistical comparison.

For a more comparative study, here are results as compiled by the Taiwan
government which covers several countries. (data was taken from various
statistical sources for 1998)

Murders per 100,000.
1. Russia Federation 18.07
2. United States 6.32
3. Malaysia 2.73
Taiwan 1.17
Spain 1.08
Japan 0.58

Rape per 100,000.
1. United States 34.20
2. England and Wales 14.69
3. France 13.38
Taiwan 8.82
South Korea 4.38
Spain 3.23
Japan 1.48

Serious Assault per 100,000.
1. Australia 713.68
2. England & Wales 405.20
3. United States 357.94
Taiwan 37.30
Spain 23.94
Japan 15.40

Robbery/Violent Theft per 100,000.
1. Spain 169.85
2. United States 169.02
3. France 144.10
Taiwan 14.35
South Korea 11.74
Japan 2.71

Sure I'll sacrifice a little "freedom" and live under an "authoritarian regime" if it means I can live out my life without having to worry about getting shot or robbed while on the way to the grocery store for a bag of chips. I'll also freely admit Japan is not some perfect utopia and does have its own share of problems. I did in fact grow up in the States; I just consider myself fortunate to be able to view these matters openly and without prejudice. America needs some serious debate and discourse on these kinds of topics, and trying to dismiss the serious institutional deficiencies that are the root causes of these problems on topics such as the rate of single parents and/or video games is just a little absurd. America is a band-aid fix and pill popping approach society that doesn't really want to have an intelligent and productive discussion on these types of issues; that's why things don't change.

 

Well in order to have society with out a crime, crime can not be tolerated.(because as soon as someone sees way to get away with something everyone will exploit it so there must be no such ways) But if thats enforced by law it would be more like concentration camp not a free country. I think people must have common sense of what can be and can NOT be done and the consequences that follow the wrong choices.

Heh interesting how Russia is not on any of the other stats besides Murders, thats primarily the reason everyone know their place and something like this would never ever happened. Now I'm not saying Russia is anywhere close to perfect but you can be sure that nothing is going to happen to you unless you did something to provoke it. Even tho I agree that strict laws and enforcement is way to improve things in US, but there always will be someone who thinks rules made to be broken and unless people have some common sense not much will be changed.

This is the reason this situation upsets me this much, what do you think kid who did this learned from this experience? The way it looks the only thing he could possibly conclude from this is that he got away yet another time and at this age he might think he can do pretty much anything he wasts with out consequences.(and most likely continue acting is such manner) Now do you think he would ever think about doing such thing again if in few hours after he did it some black tinted Benz rolled up to he house and about 5 big healthy looking fellas with shaved heads and leather jackets where at hes door. He might not be at school for next few weeks but I assure you when he is back he WILL be fully rehabilitated and such ludicrous idea(messing with someones "very nice ride" without reasonable cause) could never come to him after this. The point is that people can not be let away with such behavior and if they are not disciplined after fist mistake I can promise you they will do it again. This case is prime example, since kid already has 20 grand worth of damages on him (which are not being collected) and he is still continuing to behave in same manner.

 

Sskylin3R33, if that diatribe doesn’t finally kill this thread then nothing will.

My point was not that our justice system is perfect, but rather that I would not trade it for that of Japan (or anywhere else for that matter). And there are way too many things that **** me off about the US for me to accept your belief that I have blinders on. The criminal justice system just isn’t one of them (now if you want to talk about our tort system that’s a different matter).

I believe strongly in concepts that are fundamental to our justice system like “innocent until proven guilty” and “trial by jury”, whether they happen to serve my purpose at the time or not. And I still believe that the thug that painted my car should have gotten off because there was not enough evidence to convict him.

To me, Japan’s Daiyo kangoku and associated system that allows a suspect to be held and interrogated for up to 23 days without being charged is unjust. And to me it becomes even more so when you factor in that during this period Japanese authorities have the ability to limit access to counsel and family, and can also restrict meals and sleep in order to elicit a confession. Furthermore, once the suspect does make it to trial, there is no trial by jury available (at least not until 2009 when jury trials will return to Japan). The “benefit” of this juryless system though is that the conviction rate in Japan is 99%! Call me cynical, but it’s hard for me to believe any system is that good.

Sskylin3R33, that's a really abbreviated view of my thoughts on this subject. We could both go on for pages, bore the hell out of the rest of the forum members and both look like pompous asses while we debate why each of our systems/culture are superior, but frankly I’m really not interested. That would be way to time consuming and I believe ultimately unproductive. Instead, I’d rather we just agree to disagree and both be thankful that we live where we do.

And get back to talking about Z’s (which is one thing I guess we can both agree on).

 

Sorry just found this thread and was rather disturbed by what happened and couldn't hold my self from commenting. Please don't misunderstand my views but I am a strong believer that justice needs to be served where it's due(and if it's not it will only get worse).

Not sure who was this directed at but I will restrain my self from any further comments for this thread.
Over all I am very impressed with how well you where able to handle this and some things you said that I could not have agreed more. Mad props and respect.

 

When will people start to realize how far gone this country really is?? This is the only nation where being a lazy fat fat fatty is a disease and epidemic(obiesety). We are hated by other nations, we are the worlds boss for no aparent reason. We are similar to North Korea, brainwashed everyday that we are the best and this is the safest place to live in the world. More people need to travel the world and stay more in tune with the world as a whole. You will find that none of that is close to true. The US government is a criminals playground filled with loopholes and technicalities that allow hundreds of thousands of criminals and crimes go without punishment. We have disrespectful law enforcement, seemingly uneducated leaders, hell even celebrities can be leaders! When I think of America I think of the settlers who traveled here unprepared, used the native people of this country to establish themselves and then proceed to kill almost all of them throughout the continent. Years later we set aside a few acres of land in only a few states just for them, that is a disgrace! I would easily give up a few of my rights to live in a safer more secure country with less crime. I have stated it before in this forum that if I ever come across an oppurtunity to leave this country, or enough money to do so I will with no second thoughts.
Why do I pay taxes?
is it:
to support felons in jail?
to feed someone who is too lazy to make thier own money and feed themself?
to put up with arrogant ignorant public servants?
to drive on crapy, dirty, and unmaintained city streets?

someone explain to me where is the greatness????