What happened to the manual transmission?
05-27-2007, 03:53 PM
#101
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Originally Posted by Kolia
Wikipedia as reference ?!? How lame...
NObody thought of quoting books like the BOSCH Automotive Handbook ? OR any SAE documentation for that matter ?
Hey, I can change gears on my 6MT Z without using the clutch, at my command. So from now on, I'll say I have a semi-auto gear box. There, Wikipedia agrees with me.
Am I the only one here how would beleive that any gearbox that'll shift/change drive ratio on its own should be called and auto ?!?
NObody thought of quoting books like the BOSCH Automotive Handbook ? OR any SAE documentation for that matter ?
Hey, I can change gears on my 6MT Z without using the clutch, at my command. So from now on, I'll say I have a semi-auto gear box. There, Wikipedia agrees with me.
Am I the only one here how would beleive that any gearbox that'll shift/change drive ratio on its own should be called and auto ?!?
re> NObody thought of quoting books like the BOSCH Automotive Handbook ? OR any SAE documentation for that matter ?"
Can you provide any specific references/documents on this subject from the sources you mention? I assume you already did some research or you would not have mentioned these books or documentation ("... books like the BOSCH Automotive Handbook ? OR any SAE documentation...")
Not flaming. I would like to read more about this (and you recommend some sources). Please don't think I'm questioning your knowledge. I've read a lot of your posts and find them to be accurate and informative.
--Spike
05-27-2007, 05:54 PM
#102
Originally Posted by Spike100
Wikipedia as reference was only meant to answer the semantics and definitions in this useless/stupid "debate," and never to provide any technical information about transmission design.
re> NObody thought of quoting books like the BOSCH Automotive Handbook ? OR any SAE documentation for that matter ?"
Can you provide any specific references/documents on this subject from the sources you mention? I assume you already did some research or you would not have mentioned these books or documentation ("... books like the BOSCH Automotive Handbook ? OR any SAE documentation...")
Not flaming. I would like to read more about this (and you recommend some sources). Please don't think I'm questioning your knowledge. I've read a lot of your posts and find them to be accurate and informative.
--Spike
re> NObody thought of quoting books like the BOSCH Automotive Handbook ? OR any SAE documentation for that matter ?"
Can you provide any specific references/documents on this subject from the sources you mention? I assume you already did some research or you would not have mentioned these books or documentation ("... books like the BOSCH Automotive Handbook ? OR any SAE documentation...")
Not flaming. I would like to read more about this (and you recommend some sources). Please don't think I'm questioning your knowledge. I've read a lot of your posts and find them to be accurate and informative.
--Spike
05-30-2007, 07:33 AM
#103
Here's what the BOSH Automotive Handbook has to say about the differences between automatic and manual transmissions:
The book goes on detailing various means of power transmissions, but the basic definitions are those I just quoted. You guys are welcomed to keep on arguing on your personal definitions or you can adopt the ones used by the engineers that build cars.
The BOSH Automotive Handbook is published by SAE, the Society of Automotive Engineers. ISBN 0-7680-1513-8
Originally Posted by BOSH AH 6th edition p741
Manually shifted transmissions
The basic elements of the manually shifted transmission are:
-single or multiplate dry clutch for interrupting and engaging the power flow; actuation may be power-assisted to deal with high operating forces,
-variable-ratio gear transmission unit featuring permanent-mesh gears in one or several individual assemblies,
-shift mechanism with shift lever.
The basic elements of the manually shifted transmission are:
-single or multiplate dry clutch for interrupting and engaging the power flow; actuation may be power-assisted to deal with high operating forces,
-variable-ratio gear transmission unit featuring permanent-mesh gears in one or several individual assemblies,
-shift mechanism with shift lever.
Originally Posted by BOSH AH 6th edition p743
Automatic transmissions
There are two types of automatic transmission depending on their effect on vehicle handling dynamics:
-Semi-automatic transmissions are manually shifted transmissions on which all operations normally performed by the driver when changing gear are carried out by electronically controlled actuator systems. In terms of vehicle dynamics, this means that a gear change always involves disengaging the clutch and therefore interrupting the drive to the driving wheels.
-Fully automatic transmissions, usually referred to simply as automatic transmissions, change gear under load, i.e. power continues to be transmitted to the driving wheels during a gearshift operation.
There are two types of automatic transmission depending on their effect on vehicle handling dynamics:
-Semi-automatic transmissions are manually shifted transmissions on which all operations normally performed by the driver when changing gear are carried out by electronically controlled actuator systems. In terms of vehicle dynamics, this means that a gear change always involves disengaging the clutch and therefore interrupting the drive to the driving wheels.
-Fully automatic transmissions, usually referred to simply as automatic transmissions, change gear under load, i.e. power continues to be transmitted to the driving wheels during a gearshift operation.
The BOSH Automotive Handbook is published by SAE, the Society of Automotive Engineers. ISBN 0-7680-1513-8
05-30-2007, 03:10 PM
#105
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I'm sorry for most definately making some members here mad but I feel buying a sports car with automatic is just plain rediculous. An automatic has its positives for racing in straight lines and lazy daily drivers going to work. But Manual is definately for true sport car drivers. Only in the USA would a driver buy a sports car with automatic. Try finding that trend in Europe where some of the best sport cars are driven daily on some of the best roads. Point in case is what are we Americans thinking? Is it the lack of education again biting us in the a**?
If you havnt learned to drive a stick you will never enjoy a sports car for its true potential. Just my opinion and I'm sticking with it
If you havnt learned to drive a stick you will never enjoy a sports car for its true potential. Just my opinion and I'm sticking with it
Last edited by 350ZV3; 05-30-2007 at 03:16 PM.
05-30-2007, 03:19 PM
#106
Originally Posted by 350ZV3
I'm sorry for most definately making some members here mad but I feel buying a sports car with automatic is just plain rediculous. An automatic has its positives for racing in straight lines and lazy daily drivers going to work. But Manual is definately for true sport car drivers. Only in the USA would a driver buy a sports car with automatic. Try finding that trend in Europe where some of the best sport cars are driven daily on some of the best roads. Point in case is what are we Americans thinking? Is it the lack of education again biting us in the a**?
If you havnt learned to drive a stick you will never enjoy a true sports car for its true potential. Just my opinion and I'm sticking with it
If you havnt learned to drive a stick you will never enjoy a true sports car for its true potential. Just my opinion and I'm sticking with it
But from the above definitions, pretty much all the latest sports car are equiped with semi-automatic transmission with only a limited number of manuals built.
Ferrari's are usually released first with the F1 transmission, then later a manual are offered.
05-30-2007, 03:33 PM
#107
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Originally Posted by Kolia
I understand what you mean. And personnally, I like to have a clutch to work with and to play with my revs.
But from the above definitions, pretty much all the latest sports car are equiped with semi-automatic transmission with only a limited number of manuals built.
Ferrari's are usually released first with the F1 transmission, then later a manual are offered.
But from the above definitions, pretty much all the latest sports car are equiped with semi-automatic transmission with only a limited number of manuals built.
Ferrari's are usually released first with the F1 transmission, then later a manual are offered.
I guess thats why I love Nascar and not Formula One.
Last edited by 350ZV3; 05-30-2007 at 03:35 PM.
05-30-2007, 03:40 PM
#108
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I'll offer what I can since I just came out of one of the most advanced "automatics" in the world.
I owned an Audi with the new dual clutch DSG system. I had driven manuals my entire life, but this thing is FAST like you have no idea. Faster than the exact same car with the manual, once and for all proving that the technology today can overcome driver error/speed in shifting. I loved the transmission very much, but it just lost its appeal after 18 months. Even with aluminum paddle shifters and the most fluid, fastest transmission in the world, I was dulled.
I see a DSG-type transmission being incredibly effective on the track, but as a daily driver, I find the Z's manual transmission provides better "driver communication", if that's what you can call it.
The hard part - Finding a 6MT Touring/Grand Touring in LA proved impossible in my color choice, so I "settled" for an Enthusiast in my color, but at least I got the 6MT! Couldn't be happier.
I can't imagine why a normal slushbox like the one in the Z would appeal to the true enthusiast (it most definitely would not), but to each his/her own.
I owned an Audi with the new dual clutch DSG system. I had driven manuals my entire life, but this thing is FAST like you have no idea. Faster than the exact same car with the manual, once and for all proving that the technology today can overcome driver error/speed in shifting. I loved the transmission very much, but it just lost its appeal after 18 months. Even with aluminum paddle shifters and the most fluid, fastest transmission in the world, I was dulled.
I see a DSG-type transmission being incredibly effective on the track, but as a daily driver, I find the Z's manual transmission provides better "driver communication", if that's what you can call it.
The hard part - Finding a 6MT Touring/Grand Touring in LA proved impossible in my color choice, so I "settled" for an Enthusiast in my color, but at least I got the 6MT! Couldn't be happier.
I can't imagine why a normal slushbox like the one in the Z would appeal to the true enthusiast (it most definitely would not), but to each his/her own.
05-30-2007, 03:51 PM
#110
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Originally Posted by Kolia
As long as you have fun in the end, that's what really count.
Don't bring F1 in there though. Driving these cars take a lot more work than most people think. The days of an F1 car driving itself are long gone...
Don't bring F1 in there though. Driving these cars take a lot more work than most people think. The days of an F1 car driving itself are long gone...
Last edited by 350ZV3; 05-30-2007 at 07:17 PM.
05-30-2007, 06:27 PM
#111
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>>This is the 350Z inventory at CarMax in Baltimore, MD. 17 new Zs, and only 5 are manual transmissions. Is the manual transmission dead? Is it outdated?<<
It's definitely a regional thing: Driving my MT '04 Touring on the DC Beltway and I-395 at rush hour totally sucks. When it's bad, it's *really* bad. Try driving home at 6 p.m. on a Friday, and you're lucky to average 15 mph in bumper-to-bumper, stop-and-go traffic. My plain AT sedan is actually more pleasant driving in the congestion around Washington's metro area. If the Z were my only vehicle in this area, I'd probably opt for the AT, too.
It's definitely a regional thing: Driving my MT '04 Touring on the DC Beltway and I-395 at rush hour totally sucks. When it's bad, it's *really* bad. Try driving home at 6 p.m. on a Friday, and you're lucky to average 15 mph in bumper-to-bumper, stop-and-go traffic. My plain AT sedan is actually more pleasant driving in the congestion around Washington's metro area. If the Z were my only vehicle in this area, I'd probably opt for the AT, too.
06-15-2007, 01:10 PM
#113
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Originally Posted by bender
MANual! 
lol..........i enjoy driving my Z in traffic even if its manual. i dunno all my cars are manual except my bimmer. my bimmer is my cruising car.
MANual
06-15-2007, 01:33 PM
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I'm been looking for a '07 Touring 6 spd to replace my totaled '03 Touring 6 spd, and it's been impossible to find one in Redline (my first choice). I've found one in PP White that's out of state and the dealer can dealer trade but wants to charge me $600 transportation cost to get it here. I've been w/o my Z for 5.5 weeks and its killing me. There are some auto's around but no way would I buy one of those. It's just not me. One dealer said he thinks Nissan is building the nismo Z' that come out next month and that's affected regular production. So since a large portion of the Z's are auto's to begin with, it even harder to find a manual. Even 6 spd Enthusiasts are rare.
By the way a Tundra cut in front of me and stoppped and I slid under his bumper.
By the way a Tundra cut in front of me and stoppped and I slid under his bumper.
06-15-2007, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by ssawa
I'm been looking for a '07 Touring 6 spd to replace my totaled '03 Touring 6 spd, and it's been impossible to find one in Redline (my first choice). I've found one in PP White that's out of state and the dealer can dealer trade but wants to charge me $600 transportation cost to get it here. I've been w/o my Z for 5.5 weeks and its killing me. There are some auto's around but no way would I buy one of those. It's just not me. One dealer said he thinks Nissan is building the nismo Z' that come out next month and that's affected regular production. So since a large portion of the Z's are auto's to begin with, it even harder to find a manual. Even 6 spd Enthusiasts are rare.
06-15-2007, 11:27 PM
#119
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So a 3 speed auto drag/race car, very famous in NZ.
http://www.croydons.co.nz/the5thdime...n.asp?pageid=3
It depends on the person what suits there requirements the most. So enough of the manual/auto thing please.
http://www.croydons.co.nz/the5thdime...n.asp?pageid=3
It depends on the person what suits there requirements the most. So enough of the manual/auto thing please.
06-16-2007, 12:52 PM
#120
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Automatic is good for guy with twisted knee
I have been driving a stick shift all my driving life (40 years), including my '07 Z coupe. The other day, I twisted my left knee and lemme telya, I found myself wishing for the first time in my life that I had an automatic transmission, even in my Z, 'cause it hurt like the dickens to use the clutch!