Why buy the Track model?
08-27-2002, 06:11 PM
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Why buy the Track model?
Whats the difference between the enthusiast model vs track model? Just rims, Stability control, and brakes? The way I see it...It isnt worth the near 6k difference. The track model comes with Potenza 040 tires, which arent very grippy compared to the S03's. Personally I would use the money saved on a enthusiast model and buy a set of SSR's/S03's AND buy a big brake kit. That combo would outperform the track model and you would have a bit of money left to do other mod's if you like. The only downside I can think of is warranty related.
08-27-2002, 06:15 PM
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If you do some searching there are several threads dealing with this exact issue. Basicly, the differantial can be easily accounted for in the proce of the rims and brakes and areo package. Now no one knows exactly how much these parts would cost in the aftermarket, but going on prices of comparable pieces for the Z32, the parts alone account for the price difference. Now factor in the labor and its a deal, and warrenteed to boot.
08-27-2002, 06:25 PM
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Originally posted by Alang
If you do some searching there are several threads dealing with this exact issue. Basicly, the differantial can be easily accounted for in the proce of the rims and brakes and areo package. Now no one knows exactly how much these parts would cost in the aftermarket, but going on prices of comparable pieces for the Z32, the parts alone account for the price difference. Now factor in the labor and its a deal, and warrenteed to boot.
If you do some searching there are several threads dealing with this exact issue. Basicly, the differantial can be easily accounted for in the proce of the rims and brakes and areo package. Now no one knows exactly how much these parts would cost in the aftermarket, but going on prices of comparable pieces for the Z32, the parts alone account for the price difference. Now factor in the labor and its a deal, and warrenteed to boot.
Last edited by max2000jp; 08-27-2002 at 06:34 PM.
08-27-2002, 06:32 PM
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Isn't it obvious
http://www.nissandriven.com/vehicles...s/1,9439,23261||,00.html?displayAll#topOfPage
That's why... the brembo brakes are a pretty big upgrade. aero package and the better wheels, and the VDC are all huge. It's a track model car, designed to be driven on a track - best handling version of the car.
I've got a track on order, coming in sometime this week, and I so very pleased with the decsion.
Chris
Austin, TX
Town North Nissan
Chrome Silver Track
Track with ALL the options including NAV...
And including - Touring leather package, Touring Bose Sound System, Etch, Security system with wheel bolts, Courtesy net, Z Car Cover, auto dimming mirrors and Lifetime Window tint.
It's a collector's version for sure...made available through special order "Official Nissan Z Car Kits" installed by the dealer. I'll be taking pics as soon as she's in.
That's why... the brembo brakes are a pretty big upgrade. aero package and the better wheels, and the VDC are all huge. It's a track model car, designed to be driven on a track - best handling version of the car.
I've got a track on order, coming in sometime this week, and I so very pleased with the decsion.
Chris
Austin, TX
Town North Nissan
Chrome Silver Track
Track with ALL the options including NAV...
And including - Touring leather package, Touring Bose Sound System, Etch, Security system with wheel bolts, Courtesy net, Z Car Cover, auto dimming mirrors and Lifetime Window tint.
It's a collector's version for sure...made available through special order "Official Nissan Z Car Kits" installed by the dealer. I'll be taking pics as soon as she's in.
08-27-2002, 06:49 PM
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I agree with the guys above. I think you underestimate the cost of performance parts. Brembo and rays...some good stuff that cost thousands for a Z32. Factor in the cool *** VDC that you cant even add later and you have a definite winner.
08-27-2002, 07:41 PM
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Originally posted by rpgonzalez
I agree with the guys above. I think you underestimate the cost of performance parts. Brembo and rays...some good stuff that cost thousands for a Z32. Factor in the cool *** VDC that you cant even add later and you have a definite winner.
I agree with the guys above. I think you underestimate the cost of performance parts. Brembo and rays...some good stuff that cost thousands for a Z32. Factor in the cool *** VDC that you cant even add later and you have a definite winner.
VDC is a nice option, but traction control is all I really need. When you go to the track, you are going to be shutting off all the electronic drivers aids anyways.
08-27-2002, 08:08 PM
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If you can do the mods yourself and think you can save money, I say go for it.
Just realize that unlike the track model, it's unlikely you'll get your money back out of a modded car. Many people will assume the car has been driven overly hard and/or worry about the quality of work performed.
In case you care about the resale thing...
Just realize that unlike the track model, it's unlikely you'll get your money back out of a modded car. Many people will assume the car has been driven overly hard and/or worry about the quality of work performed.
In case you care about the resale thing...
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08-27-2002, 08:13 PM
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Originally posted by nizl
If you can do the mods yourself and think you can save money, I say go for it.
Just realize that unlike the track model, it's unlikely you'll get your money back out of a modded car. Many people will assume the car has been driven overly hard and/or worry about the quality of work performed.
In case you care about the resale thing...
If you can do the mods yourself and think you can save money, I say go for it.
Just realize that unlike the track model, it's unlikely you'll get your money back out of a modded car. Many people will assume the car has been driven overly hard and/or worry about the quality of work performed.
In case you care about the resale thing...
08-27-2002, 08:22 PM
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Re: Isn't it obvious
Originally posted by Bishop_Tx
Chris
Austin, TX
Town North Nissan
Chris
Austin, TX
Town North Nissan
Any chance you'd post when your car arrives? I've been dying to check one out at the local dealers, but have been unsuccessful in finding any sitting around so far. Yours sounds like it's going to be awesome!
08-27-2002, 08:36 PM
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I agree with you max!
i dont think a nav system is well suited for a sports car, thats more for sedans and luxury cars. The 350z is NO luxury car. I hope that by the time those 350z's come in masses to the dealerships mazda has something to "counterattack" the ridiculous MARKUP dealerships put on the 350z <-----If you know what I mean...............RX-8. Id like to see toyota come up with something.
Im starting to like these days.......it reminds me of the japanese super car wars. Supras, Rx-7's, 3000gt's and 300zx's; only this time Im not in shool anymore and can actually get a japanese super car ---- I have money now
i dont think a nav system is well suited for a sports car, thats more for sedans and luxury cars. The 350z is NO luxury car. I hope that by the time those 350z's come in masses to the dealerships mazda has something to "counterattack" the ridiculous MARKUP dealerships put on the 350z <-----If you know what I mean...............RX-8. Id like to see toyota come up with something.
Im starting to like these days.......it reminds me of the japanese super car wars. Supras, Rx-7's, 3000gt's and 300zx's; only this time Im not in shool anymore and can actually get a japanese super car ---- I have money now
08-28-2002, 06:22 AM
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Spoken like someone that can't afford a track Z.
I'm sure there are folks that say "why buy a STI WRX when you cau can have the same car or better for a few dollars more than the base WRX". Whatever.
You can get some brakes for $2200 great. Better than brembos at all for corners? That sounds a little hard to believe.
You can get wheels and tires for $2000 good for you. Better than forged Rays? OK if you say so.
Spoiler does more than lower drag, there's also a thing called downforce. (spoiler $500)
VDC can't be added after market.
You make it sound as if us people who order the track are being ripped off, and won't have any money to spend on mods.
good luck with that "outperform the track" thing.
I'm sure there are folks that say "why buy a STI WRX when you cau can have the same car or better for a few dollars more than the base WRX". Whatever.
You can get some brakes for $2200 great. Better than brembos at all for corners? That sounds a little hard to believe.
You can get wheels and tires for $2000 good for you. Better than forged Rays? OK if you say so.
Spoiler does more than lower drag, there's also a thing called downforce. (spoiler $500)
VDC can't be added after market.
You make it sound as if us people who order the track are being ripped off, and won't have any money to spend on mods.
good luck with that "outperform the track" thing.
08-28-2002, 09:12 AM
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well u got ripped off if you got the track model with every available option.
track model is just 34-35k soooo I wouldnt say its bad at all!
track model is just 34-35k soooo I wouldnt say its bad at all!
Last edited by GameOver; 08-28-2002 at 09:19 AM.
08-28-2002, 09:31 AM
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Originally posted by rai
Spoken like someone that can't afford a track Z.
I'm sure there are folks that say "why buy a STI WRX when you cau can have the same car or better for a few dollars more than the base WRX". Whatever.
You can get some brakes for $2200 great. Better than brembos at all for corners? That sounds a little hard to believe.
You can get wheels and tires for $2000 good for you. Better than forged Rays? OK if you say so.
Spoiler does more than lower drag, there's also a thing called downforce. (spoiler $500)
VDC can't be added after market.
You make it sound as if us people who order the track are being ripped off, and won't have any money to spend on mods.
good luck with that "outperform the track" thing.
Spoken like someone that can't afford a track Z.
I'm sure there are folks that say "why buy a STI WRX when you cau can have the same car or better for a few dollars more than the base WRX". Whatever.
You can get some brakes for $2200 great. Better than brembos at all for corners? That sounds a little hard to believe.
You can get wheels and tires for $2000 good for you. Better than forged Rays? OK if you say so.
Spoiler does more than lower drag, there's also a thing called downforce. (spoiler $500)
VDC can't be added after market.
You make it sound as if us people who order the track are being ripped off, and won't have any money to spend on mods.
good luck with that "outperform the track" thing.
The Brake kit I was refering to has larger diameter rotors and can be fitted with various pads (porterfield, hawk, etc.). Yes the package I mention is for the front only, but rears arent necessary.
The track rims are nice, but the tires arent anything special. Like I said S0-3s outperform the 040's. I can get pretty much any rim from tirerack.com and they will function the same as the Rays. There are plenty of aftermarket companies that make lightweight rims. You are just a sucker for Nissan marketing by thinking that "Rays" are amazing.
As for a aero package adding downforce, great. I will not be traveling at 130+, so why do I need it. Its basically a cosmetic eature for many. C&D did a test a couple years back and found many of the stock spoilers didnt accomplish much IIRC.
VDC is not needed if you know how to drive a RWD car. Like I said before, at the track you switch VDC off unless you cannot drive.
The track model is a great handler out of the box, but the way I see it I can make a better handling car for less money by buying an enthsusiast and doing a few mods. BTW.....if I was to pay the money for the Track I wouldnt be looking at a Z, but rather a C5 Manual.
Last edited by max2000jp; 08-28-2002 at 09:33 AM.
08-28-2002, 10:36 AM
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Ray's or Volk Racing rims are a far cry from SSR's or whatever you plan on ordering from the rack. A forged one piece wheel is sar stronger than a cast wheel like those the rack sells. the difference wehn new is nominal, but add a few thousand miles of street driving and the Ray's will still be round while your SSr's will be octagons. If that's not a big deal go for it.
The tires do suck, but very few cars are sold with "summer" tires. How many Z owners are prepared to change tires for winter or buy a second set of wheels and tires? It raises the cost of the behichle so they throw on all season rubber knowing that the hardcore will upgrade.
The brakes are the easiest to add in the aftermarket, but the combined cost of forged rims and brakes on par with the brembo's will be $5000.00 easy.
The tires do suck, but very few cars are sold with "summer" tires. How many Z owners are prepared to change tires for winter or buy a second set of wheels and tires? It raises the cost of the behichle so they throw on all season rubber knowing that the hardcore will upgrade.
The brakes are the easiest to add in the aftermarket, but the combined cost of forged rims and brakes on par with the brembo's will be $5000.00 easy.
08-28-2002, 11:01 AM
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Where are you going to find a C5 for 34K? Last I looked they were in the low 40s. Lets compare apples to apples here.
Sure you can get a used C5 for 34K, but I can get a used Z32 for around 12K and put 10K in mods in it and blow virtually any stock car out of the water and still be 10K under the track Z.
As far as the Rays go, they are extreamly lightweight. There are few wheels out there that will be as light, and they will be nearly as expensive (I think Rays are a bit overpriced), so saying that you can get cheaper wheels that are just as good is debatable. My guess is that comperable or better rims will not be had for much less.
The tires that come with the car are what they are, and are the cheapest and eaisest piece to replace. Any one that is seriously doing the track stuff will have racing tires for track time anyway, so in this conversation, they are moot.
Brakes - go ahead and put powerstops or some other package on them. you can spend more or less, but no one will argue that Brembo knows brakes. They are good enough for top performers from germany. Brembo brakes for the Z32 were $3500 (I think) for fronts only! All 4 was around $5K, so that is the majority of the cost differential right there. (Don't need the backs upgraded? How unsettling will that be in hard braking. It will just put even more of the braking effort on the fronts making them heat more and etc.)
The last thing is not cost, but I bring it up just for conversation's sake. In 10 years, looking back on all this, I will have the factory track model. Will there be better brakes for the Z33 (probably), will there be better rims available for the track (definatly), however I will have the car as delivered by Nissan. There is some mystic in that. Look back at the factory muscle cars from the '60s. Sure there were plenty of faster modified cars, but the factory racers still bring a smile to the face of those that remember.
If you want an auto-x blaster, get a miata for 4K and spend 3K on suspension and a seat. You won't get much better. Want to go faster, add a super/turbo charger; there are pleanty out there. You will have to be really good to out drive the performance of that car (I know, I had a turboed miata with a full suspension setup).
Want to play on the big tracks, get a used C5 and mod away. You could easily get a very fast track car for less that 35K.
This is really about owning a factory "track" car and supporting Nissan's ideas that some people really want performance cars. The more people that buy track the bigger message to Nissan that there is a congtingent that want performance over luxury.
And I still think the cost of the components for the track model makes it a bargin.
Sure you can get a used C5 for 34K, but I can get a used Z32 for around 12K and put 10K in mods in it and blow virtually any stock car out of the water and still be 10K under the track Z.
As far as the Rays go, they are extreamly lightweight. There are few wheels out there that will be as light, and they will be nearly as expensive (I think Rays are a bit overpriced), so saying that you can get cheaper wheels that are just as good is debatable. My guess is that comperable or better rims will not be had for much less.
The tires that come with the car are what they are, and are the cheapest and eaisest piece to replace. Any one that is seriously doing the track stuff will have racing tires for track time anyway, so in this conversation, they are moot.
Brakes - go ahead and put powerstops or some other package on them. you can spend more or less, but no one will argue that Brembo knows brakes. They are good enough for top performers from germany. Brembo brakes for the Z32 were $3500 (I think) for fronts only! All 4 was around $5K, so that is the majority of the cost differential right there. (Don't need the backs upgraded? How unsettling will that be in hard braking. It will just put even more of the braking effort on the fronts making them heat more and etc.)
The last thing is not cost, but I bring it up just for conversation's sake. In 10 years, looking back on all this, I will have the factory track model. Will there be better brakes for the Z33 (probably), will there be better rims available for the track (definatly), however I will have the car as delivered by Nissan. There is some mystic in that. Look back at the factory muscle cars from the '60s. Sure there were plenty of faster modified cars, but the factory racers still bring a smile to the face of those that remember.
If you want an auto-x blaster, get a miata for 4K and spend 3K on suspension and a seat. You won't get much better. Want to go faster, add a super/turbo charger; there are pleanty out there. You will have to be really good to out drive the performance of that car (I know, I had a turboed miata with a full suspension setup).
Want to play on the big tracks, get a used C5 and mod away. You could easily get a very fast track car for less that 35K.
This is really about owning a factory "track" car and supporting Nissan's ideas that some people really want performance cars. The more people that buy track the bigger message to Nissan that there is a congtingent that want performance over luxury.
And I still think the cost of the components for the track model makes it a bargin.
08-28-2002, 01:54 PM
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Originally posted by Alang
Where are you going to find a C5 for 34K? Last I looked they were in the low 40s. Lets compare apples to apples here.
Sure you can get a used C5 for 34K, but I can get a used Z32 for around 12K and put 10K in mods in it and blow virtually any stock car out of the water and still be 10K under the track Z.
As far as the Rays go, they are extreamly lightweight. There are few wheels out there that will be as light, and they will be nearly as expensive (I think Rays are a bit overpriced), so saying that you can get cheaper wheels that are just as good is debatable. My guess is that comperable or better rims will not be had for much less.
The tires that come with the car are what they are, and are the cheapest and eaisest piece to replace. Any one that is seriously doing the track stuff will have racing tires for track time anyway, so in this conversation, they are moot.
Brakes - go ahead and put powerstops or some other package on them. you can spend more or less, but no one will argue that Brembo knows brakes. They are good enough for top performers from germany. Brembo brakes for the Z32 were $3500 (I think) for fronts only! All 4 was around $5K, so that is the majority of the cost differential right there. (Don't need the backs upgraded? How unsettling will that be in hard braking. It will just put even more of the braking effort on the fronts making them heat more and etc.)
The last thing is not cost, but I bring it up just for conversation's sake. In 10 years, looking back on all this, I will have the factory track model. Will there be better brakes for the Z33 (probably), will there be better rims available for the track (definatly), however I will have the car as delivered by Nissan. There is some mystic in that. Look back at the factory muscle cars from the '60s. Sure there were plenty of faster modified cars, but the factory racers still bring a smile to the face of those that remember.
If you want an auto-x blaster, get a miata for 4K and spend 3K on suspension and a seat. You won't get much better. Want to go faster, add a super/turbo charger; there are pleanty out there. You will have to be really good to out drive the performance of that car (I know, I had a turboed miata with a full suspension setup).
Want to play on the big tracks, get a used C5 and mod away. You could easily get a very fast track car for less that 35K.
This is really about owning a factory "track" car and supporting Nissan's ideas that some people really want performance cars. The more people that buy track the bigger message to Nissan that there is a congtingent that want performance over luxury.
And I still think the cost of the components for the track model makes it a bargin.
Where are you going to find a C5 for 34K? Last I looked they were in the low 40s. Lets compare apples to apples here.
Sure you can get a used C5 for 34K, but I can get a used Z32 for around 12K and put 10K in mods in it and blow virtually any stock car out of the water and still be 10K under the track Z.
As far as the Rays go, they are extreamly lightweight. There are few wheels out there that will be as light, and they will be nearly as expensive (I think Rays are a bit overpriced), so saying that you can get cheaper wheels that are just as good is debatable. My guess is that comperable or better rims will not be had for much less.
The tires that come with the car are what they are, and are the cheapest and eaisest piece to replace. Any one that is seriously doing the track stuff will have racing tires for track time anyway, so in this conversation, they are moot.
Brakes - go ahead and put powerstops or some other package on them. you can spend more or less, but no one will argue that Brembo knows brakes. They are good enough for top performers from germany. Brembo brakes for the Z32 were $3500 (I think) for fronts only! All 4 was around $5K, so that is the majority of the cost differential right there. (Don't need the backs upgraded? How unsettling will that be in hard braking. It will just put even more of the braking effort on the fronts making them heat more and etc.)
The last thing is not cost, but I bring it up just for conversation's sake. In 10 years, looking back on all this, I will have the factory track model. Will there be better brakes for the Z33 (probably), will there be better rims available for the track (definatly), however I will have the car as delivered by Nissan. There is some mystic in that. Look back at the factory muscle cars from the '60s. Sure there were plenty of faster modified cars, but the factory racers still bring a smile to the face of those that remember.
If you want an auto-x blaster, get a miata for 4K and spend 3K on suspension and a seat. You won't get much better. Want to go faster, add a super/turbo charger; there are pleanty out there. You will have to be really good to out drive the performance of that car (I know, I had a turboed miata with a full suspension setup).
Want to play on the big tracks, get a used C5 and mod away. You could easily get a very fast track car for less that 35K.
This is really about owning a factory "track" car and supporting Nissan's ideas that some people really want performance cars. The more people that buy track the bigger message to Nissan that there is a congtingent that want performance over luxury.
And I still think the cost of the components for the track model makes it a bargin.
The reason I say I can get rims/tires real cheap is because a friend of mine owns a tuner shop and can get amazing prices at tirerack. Brembos are great and they know brakes like you said, but I think that I can get a better system from the aftermarket that will perform much better than the Track's Brembos. I dont think that a brake kit on the front only should be a problem, since the fronts do most of the braking anyways. I havent seen a figure for the Z, but i bet its something like 70/30. As you said any serious road racer would immediately buy some new tires, but thats another expense you have to tally up. I am just thinking that I could personally buy some decent rims/tires and a brake kit and it SHOULD outperform the Track model for less money. I have a feeling that within the next year or so the aftermarket will have plenty of performance parts for the 350.
08-28-2002, 02:48 PM
#19
Interesting discussion
I'm cheap, but Where is Nissans credit for the stock tires & brakes that are replaced with the trick stuff....Yes, it will cost me relatively equal to upgrade, BUT I will still have all the stock parts to re-install when selling, or for winter driving, and can sell the trick stuff. Wheels, Tires & brakes=$5000. Enthusiast take-offs ???? $2000??? If the track was only $3000 more, I'd have bought it.
Personally, I'll pocket the $2000.....sorry, I WILL put it into other mods.
Damn, I wish I were one of the lucky and DRIVING MY Z, instead of answering posts
I'm cheap, but Where is Nissans credit for the stock tires & brakes that are replaced with the trick stuff....Yes, it will cost me relatively equal to upgrade, BUT I will still have all the stock parts to re-install when selling, or for winter driving, and can sell the trick stuff. Wheels, Tires & brakes=$5000. Enthusiast take-offs ???? $2000??? If the track was only $3000 more, I'd have bought it.
Personally, I'll pocket the $2000.....sorry, I WILL put it into other mods.
Damn, I wish I were one of the lucky and DRIVING MY Z, instead of answering posts
08-28-2002, 02:58 PM
#20
well since my track edition wont be here until october, these are my justifications on getting the track edition rather than the other versions:
Brembo Gran Turismo brake kit retails for ~$2600.00 for their 13.1 inch kit for the maxima. so i estimated it would be about the same for the new Z's
18x8 Volk TE37s are roughly $550/ea not including tire + shipping. so times 4 = $2200 + the price of 18 inch tires at $120 each = gran total of : $2680
the Quiafe LSD that is out for many cars retail for $1300 easily.
then you add in the zero lift kit ~$500 conservatively priced.
all those mods already are more than $6k
BUT. if you end up getting new coilovers and nismo aero kit with new rims, then definately the track editio seems a bit steep.. but, resale will be alot better
i mean. if you're gonna get something so kick *** as the Z. you might as well go all out and get the best.
AND if you dont want to modify, the track edition is already pretty good for auto-x and road course hot lapping.
Brembo Gran Turismo brake kit retails for ~$2600.00 for their 13.1 inch kit for the maxima. so i estimated it would be about the same for the new Z's
18x8 Volk TE37s are roughly $550/ea not including tire + shipping. so times 4 = $2200 + the price of 18 inch tires at $120 each = gran total of : $2680
the Quiafe LSD that is out for many cars retail for $1300 easily.
then you add in the zero lift kit ~$500 conservatively priced.
all those mods already are more than $6k
BUT. if you end up getting new coilovers and nismo aero kit with new rims, then definately the track editio seems a bit steep.. but, resale will be alot better
i mean. if you're gonna get something so kick *** as the Z. you might as well go all out and get the best.
AND if you dont want to modify, the track edition is already pretty good for auto-x and road course hot lapping.
