gravitywell01

Try this:

1) Dress nicely, goto court a little early.
2a) If the officer is present: plead "Guilty with explanation". Simply say "I wasn't aware the speed was XX" or whatever else.
2b) If the officer isn't present (or a different officer is present (happened to me once) plead "Not Guilty."

Sidenote's
Always -ALWAYS- refer to the judge as "Your honor," even "sir" isn't appropriote.

Maybe you can work the no registration/proper proceedure angle. I'm not sure exaclty how, but if the officer doesn't follow proper proceedures, prehaps he's bumbled other things?

Beamm

With all due respect to James, there is nothing more dangerous than a non-lawyer thinking that they know the law and acting on it. James, nothing against you but your advice is not so hot...

First off. Yes, the rule that I was referencing is DERIVED from the Constitution. You do have the right to be confronted by the accuser. HOWEVER, this does not mean that they have to testify infront of you. There are a lot of things in the constitution that you may think mean one thing but they have been so heavily modified over the years that it really doesn't mean what you think it does. Consider, for instance, Article III which forms one supreme court and gives congress the ability to form other federal courts in times as it sees fit to do so. It also grants federal jurisdiction over cases where there is minimal diversity of citizenship. If you took minimal diversity to a federal court you'd get tossed because IT IS NO LONGER THE RULE...it has been modified. There are exceptions to the rule. Someone said that NJ has a statute that says that the cop doesn't have to show up. If this is true then it is the law of the land and if the cop doesn't show up, you're still in trouble. My guess is the reasoning behind this is that the ticket serves as a record of what happend and acts like a deposition or affadavit.

Also, don't try and move the trail date around and around. A few things can happen if you do this:
1) You **** people off
2) Held in contempt
3) Possibly Rule 11 if someone is feelin like a jacka** (don't ask, you don't want it to happen to you)
4) Judge can order you to show (at least in FL)
Always remember: the judge would rather be golfing.

Finally, don't get into examination of witnesses. That's just plain stupid. James says to say 'you weren't driving too fast for conditions' or 'you were keeping up with traffic'. CUSTOM AND USAGE ARE NOT VALID DEFENSES ANYWHERE IN THE COUNTRY THAT I KNOW OF! You were speeding, that's breaking the law and they don't care what others were doing. If everyone was breaking the law and you were the one that got nailed...tough s***. There is always a chance that the judge might reduce the fine but if there are points generally involved with the ticket then you run the risk of still getting the points (the judge might not be able to ADD points to what you're supposed to get but he/she doesn't have to take them away either). Why go to your last chance first? Negotiate first. If the judge enters a verdict, case closed. You can't go and try to negotiate at that point. If you negoitate first then you leave both options (negotiation and judgement from the judge) open...if you don't like the negotiation, take it to the judge. At least you're not shooting yourself in the foot. And I can promise that you don't want to try and question people on the stand...there are a lot of rules about that and if you screw up and waste time you might **** off the judge.

As for calling the judge your honor...ALWAYS DO THAT! He/she controls your fate. And ALWAYS REMEMBER...the judge would rather be playing golf.

And also remember...I could be wrong and this is just my ideas and isnt' advice in any way, shape, or form...just thoughts and musings

mofoz

iTrader: (1)

after my 2 court experiences, i have to say everything said here is generally true. i got clocked doing 96 in a 45, and he knocked it down to 76 in a 45. mandatory court date i was told, but the cop acidentally scheduled the date on the ticket for a date he couldnt make! so i went there with my lawyer, and i got probation even though the officer was not there. i dont know if it was because i was only 18 or just because im a young mail, but i had to come back with a printout from the court showing i have not had any other tickets. the best part was after i got this ticket for 31 over i was pulled over for doing 68 in a 40 which was complete ********. he was driving towards me in heavy traffic with 2 lanes each way. i got probation on probation. i didnt think this could happen but whatever, both tickets are off of my record. my suggestions. change date, plead not guilty, take a lawyer. you are always more respected with a lawyer and usually given priority. (i.e. called first) if anyone wants a great lawyer in the northwest chicago subarbs i have one. my cousin got 4 tickets in one week and got off of all of them! and whenever you're pulled over, always ask to see the radar if you dont think you were going that speed. that was my mistake last time

tlsimon

if you have a clean record at least for a year and a half go to court wait until they send you a court date don't mail anything in. go and talk to the attorney that is there at your court room and ask him if you plead guilty to a statement of charges will the judge give you a probation before judgement. most attorneys will know that but if you are luckly to get probation you will still have a fine. but no points unless you are stopped within your probation time period 1 week to a year. also check to see if maryland will put points on your license from new york they dont for all states.....

Splurt

Im kind of in the same boat. I got radar'd going 53 in a 35, valentine went off a tad bit late.. but I'm kind of stressing what to do. I have 3 points all ready, and I got this ticket. My friend was saying I should goto the court and ask the judge if I can take traffic school lvl 2 or something. Any thoughts? sorry to hijack the thread, but I'm in the same boat... it's my first ticket in the Z too after 5 months of having it!

chee-z-name

Okay, wait, what does this mean--I'm sorry I seem to really NEED punctuation--so you are suggesting I talk to the prosecutor before hand and ask him if I can "plead guilty to a statement of charges will the judge give you a probation before judgement?" Is that roughly it? So essentially you are saying ask him befor hand if he will cut me some slack before we go to the judge? Or is that not really what you were saying? [either way man, I appreciate you taking the time to lay down that blurb]

One point that I should clear up is that I used to live in Baltimore. I bought the Z in MD and the car still wears MD tags, but I live in NY now and my license is from NY.

So I am getting an idea of what to do here. Tomorrow I will send in my not guilty plea and await a court date. I also found a phone number the cop seems to have written on the citation but I don't remember what it is for. I'll give that a shot and see if its the court. I'm psyched to have gotten this much help from everyone so far. If you're not bored of it yet, KEEP IT COMING.

Beamm

Try to talk to the prosecutor before hand if you can. If you can cut a deal before you even see the judge that makes the judge happy. The deal you cut should include you pleading guilty (or no contest) or something like that. Or it migh tinclude something like 'I didn't do anything wrong but i'll never do it again'.

commasense

Beamm: Thanks for your post. I stand corrected, educated, and taken down a notch (appropriately).

But let me clarify a couple of things and ask a few questions.

First, I was advising against questioning the cop unless you're a lawyer or at least very familiar with the process. As you say, that can easily backfire.

I'm going to stand by my advice to ask for a date change at least once (but no more than twice!). It's something the court has mechanisms to deal with, it's not obviously abusing the system, and it slightly improves your chance of getting off. You're just playing the system to turn the odds in your favor.

Also, although I wasn't as clear about this as I should have been, I wasn't suggesting "everyone else was doing it" as a defense, but just something to say instead of admitting guilt.

It seems to me (and correct me if I'm wrong, Beamm) that in a traffic case it is never a good idea to plead guilty, unless you have struck a plea bargain that includes that. I say this for several reasons.

First, there seems to be an impression among many people that the judge might rule more harshly if you plead not guilty and the evidence proves you were guilty. As if he'll be angry at you for lying. They seem to forget that the principle is "innocent until proven guilty" (that's still true isn't it, Beamm?), and are afraid they might be charged with perjury for pleading not guilty if they really did it.

But your plea is not testimony. The state (the cop) has to prove your guilt. You don't have to make it easy for them by admitting anything. If you say nothing and the judge doesn't believe the cop's testimony, he is supposed to find you not guilty. (Okay, we all know that doesn't happen often. Judges usually, but not always, accept police testimony and evidence at face value.)

I say this because in several trips to the courthouse I've seen people get fines and points because they pleaded guilty when the cop wasn't present. If they'd gone for not guilty, they would have walked. I've also seen a judge ask a defendant if he wanted to move for a dismissal of the charges because of a procedural error by the cop. (Yes, your honor. Case dismissed.)

So I don't see in what circumstances it would make sense to plead guilty. By admitting guilt you're certain to pay something, probably the max or close to it. By pleading not guilty you might pay the max, you might have your fine and/or points reduced, or you might get off completely. More possibilities, better option. Right Beamm?

Questions: Are prosecutors always present in traffic court? It seems to me that the only times I've seen a prosecutor was when a defendant with a lawyer presented a plea bargain to the judge. I've never seen a prosecutor present a case unless the defendant had a lawyer. It's never occurred to me to look for a prosecutor and try to plea bargain. Can a non-lawyer really be effective at this?

Finally, chee-z-name, don't sweat this too much. Your speed wasn't outrageous. As long as your record is pretty clean, you probably won't be hit too hard.

mp3car

I apologize for the lengthy post… but here it goes..
I know that the original post was related to a NY ticket… But I lived in Florida for 23 years, drove for... um... years 16-23. From the time I was 16 through 21, I got 13 tickets. Most of them were speeding (one of which was 80something in a 45), a few careless driving, and even one reckless driving ticket. I currently have a clean record as insurance views it. On my actual record, all the violations say “Adjudication Withheld”. For all but 1 of my tickets, I plead "No contest". The way it is in Florida is as follows: The first date they give when you elect to take it to court is an arraignment date. The cop is not subpoenaed, all they are doing is asking you how you plea. If you plea guilty (which would be stupid, you should have just paid the ticket in the first place), then you take the points, pay the ticket, plus maybe $25 or so in court fees, and go home... If you plea not guilty, then they set a trial date, send you home, and then you come back at a later date, at which time the cop will be there. The last plea option is No contest... this is the most awesome thing in the world... as I said, I got 13 tickets (or maybe more, all I can find are 13 of them in my filing cabinet). I have a clean record. For one of the tickets, I couldn’t make the court (arraignment) dates they offered, so I "elected" to take the school.

All the other tickets, I plead no contest. In some of the tickets, I got lucky and just paid "court fees" which were as high as the ticket, and usually plus a little more. It wasn’t a "fine" b/c a fine would be if I was guilty, and if the judge accepts the plea of no contest, you are not guilty. The judge can, however, deny your plea of no contest, which means you'd have to come back later to a court date, or just plea guilty. Out of the twelve times I did this, I have never seen a judge deny someone's plea of NC. However, the judge can require you to go to traffic school, either BDI, or ADI (Basic/Advanced Driver Improvement). If he requires this, it does not count as one of your times that you can "elect" to go to school, since you are not "electing" to go to school this time. (FL has a law where you can only "elect" to go once every 12months, and only 5 times lifetime, but I’ve heard they don’t even keep track of this.) About half the times, the judge made me go to school, other times I just paid the fees. In FL, and other states, you can take the BDI (Basic driver improvement 4hrs) online... at your own pace... you can do 45 minutes of it... a couple days later, do another 45, etc... you can actually just minimize the window since the timer keeps ticking even with the browser minimized. However, in some cases, like happened to me once, the judge can require you to take ADI class, which is a 12 hour class... taken 8 hours on a Saturday, and 4 hours on Sunday morning... THAT CLASS SUCKED. Btw, I’m in Kansas now, but even when I was in Florida, my record as far as insurance is concerned, was clean.

But... now, at 24yrs old, full insurance on the Z (which I don’t have yet, but I got an exact quote from my current insurance company for what it would be, I used a VIN number to make sure it would be an accurate quote) will only be about $120 a month, and that includes the minimum required coverage on my 92 SE Maxima!!! I couldn’t believe it, but that's right... only $120 a month to cover BOTH cars! Granted that includes a multi-car discount, but still…. Insurance costs certainly won’t be a reason for me not getting the Z… which I can do as soon as they get off their butt and finish building my house!

Two last things… I haven’t gotten a ticket since I think when I was 21 or 22, whenever the Passport 8500 came out! And also, someone I know just got out of a ticket by pleading not guilty, and asking for the calibration information on the radar gun, it was calibrated within the required time period. Then, he asked for the calibration documentation on the tuning forks (yes, one of those ‘musical’ tuning forks… they are used to calibrate a radar gun, since it ‘vibrates’ at a precise rate). Turns out, that in this state (Kansas), the forks have to be calibrated (against what, I don’t know, maybe an oscilloscope/frequency counter) every 3 years. The certifications of the forks were 6 years old, so he got out of it. I have not done a whole lot of research on Kansas’s traffic courts, so I don’t know yet if it is as easy as to plea no contest here (of course that is a plea, but the judges might not just automatically accept it like they seem to do in Florida). I think here you can do a diversion, which sounds the same as what some of you mentioned as probation. It will not go on your record as long as you don’t get another ticket within a year, but if you do, then BOTH tickets go on your record. Sorry for the long post…

jesfuego

I really dont know how busy cops over there, but over here in miami they are plenty busy, My point being that if you call to change your court date. then change it again a couple of time you can get out of this ticket. Ive done it and it works. this is how ticket clinics work. they change the court date enough times to make the cop not show up. so you can dispute your own ticket in court and win. well this is just one thing you can do besides all the others that everyone else has suggested. good luck.