mcduck

So did I... with special BLING additive!

BTW, following is a direct quote from the mechanic who helps me with all my engine mods. I encourage him to drive the car anytime we do a significant upgrade or service to see if he notices or hears anything amiss.

After this weeks visit...
"Damn! I swear this thing just keep pulling harder everytime I drive it. It is definitely stronger than when we finished the cat replacement or after the ECU swap"

Bottomline... TechnoSquare ECU apparently needs a little time to learn and the Crawford add-ons kick a$$! I have no doubt that the Hi-Flow cats continue to contribute more power as they break in and loosen up a bit.

If anyone in the Charlotte area doubts, I'll be happy to meet them at the Flying Saucer and take them for a ride down the highway... cost of flight, one pint of draught.

hfm

iTrader: (1)

Adam, please check the order of instigation.

1. Titankiller posts a claim of almost 40 rwhp.
2. I politely ask for a dyno, if one exists.

It goes downhill right after this. Your response was fine, no problems there.

3. Doug states: "Mind you we've shown this HOW many times. When will you start paying attention?"

I never asked for his comments nor his dyno. My request was for Titankiller to post his dyno if he had one. Doug posts the same dyno we've all seen over and over, claims I'm inattentive and sounds upset about having to do this when no one ever asked him to post that dyno.

And, I'm not going to even go into the bit about calling me "your honor."

4. Daytona points out that the graph had 27 runs and asks whether all the runs were consistant. This is a good observation and a reasonable query.

5. Chris chimes in and tells Daytona to stop looking for excuses. Excuses? What excuses? Daytona point is legitimate. When Stillen was asked the same for their headers, they actually produced multiple dyno results for their baseline. That was impressive on Stillen's part.

Adam, Daytona didn't instigate. I asked whether there was an independent dyno. Doug jumped on me. Daytona made a proper observation. Chris jumps on him. You're the only one who seems to be responding reasonably from Crawford and even you manage to make comments suggesting some people (Daytona) are ignorant.

I STILL have not seen one independent dyno, and that is all I'm looking for.

I have one suggestion for you guys. When you promote the hell out of your products, expect criticism. And, if you don't like what you're reading, sometimes it's better to ignore the comment. If you respond negatively, expect people to respond negatively. Just as much as you have people who adore Crawford products, I am telling you that there are a lot of people who want an independent dyno and will say so.

Daytona didn't instigate. He wouldn't have even made a comment but for Doug having posted the dyno when he wasn't the party being asked for it.

VandyZ

iTrader: (2)

I had no further problem with your comments . . .they were expected. Sad, but true.

I knew that would happen if Doug and Chris posted up the same old dyno as before. I recommended against it this time cause we (us and you) will say the same ole $hit over and over. (Seriously we should just save these posts and cut and copy on every new thread that gets started like this).

However, if every time we post something and someone has to find a new angle to play to try and discredit an earlier post, it fires us all up.

Has any one ever commented on any other dyno counts before. I don’t recall it. Anyone who reads the plethora of posts where we go back and forth, knows that we dyno probably more than anyone. This is why I considered his post ignorant.

If you know anything about dynoing these cars you know that it takes 1-5 pulls to get the max numbers . . .then the numbers go down as the car gets hotter. We always use the max numbers from each group of 3-5 pulls. That includes the baseline. Sometimes you get the max number on the first pull sometimes you get it on the 5th. It all depends on how warm the car is and if the oil temp is up.

hfm

iTrader: (1)

Adam,

I already said I'm done arguing with you guys on another thread. You folks need to understand something:

I asked Titankiller for his dyno because I was looking for an independent dyno.

I wasn't attacking Crawford. I wasn't even talking to Crawford. The issue would have been done if Titankiller said he didn't have a dyno. Instead, the thread turns into another bashfest because the same dynos come up. Doug should have listened to your recommendation because the question wasn't directed to him. It was directed to Titankiller in hope of obtaining some independent data.

Let's drop this.

Dan

VandyZ

iTrader: (2)

This was Titankiller’s post and not anyone else’s. It was up to others to start the skepticism. We flat out will not let this ruin Titankillers joy for the products he has installed on his car. Its not fair to him to go through and call b.s. just because someone is not satisfied with the information he provided.

Believe me this back and fourth stuff will never stop. Have you dynoed your car by chance? Did you provide this much grief in the makers of the products you run on your car?

I find it hard to believe that you are even in the market for any of the parts we offer. If you were, you would have already bought the competitions parts and had them installed, based on you blatant disbelief in our claims. For this reason I think you are here just to argue with us. If you are truly interested in our products for your car you definitely have a non-amusing way of showing it.

VandyZ

iTrader: (2)

I've had about enough of this fun for one day . . .wanna shake hands and hang it up untill the next time?

hfm

iTrader: (1)

Okay, fine it's on. You want argument, you got it.

VandyZ

iTrader: (2)

Hahah, Bring It

Oh wait, its alreaddy been broughted

What the H3LL have we been doing. Its all in semi-good fun. Some people who order parts actually like all this bickering.

Should we try a new topic? My lunch break is only an hour so it better be a quicky.

hfm

iTrader: (1)

Nah, since I can't seem to even ask for an independent dyno without bringing down the wrath of Crawford, I'll buy it.

https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....203#post612203

daytona350z

iTrader: (19)

damn, i go to school and then comes a butload of argument. i never wanted to start an argument. merily asking and pointing out dyno runs was just so i could figure things out.

humm, did i ever call bs on anything? if i did, please direct me, because all i remember was asking about runs 2-26 and pointing out other different manuf. usually get **** about their gains too, even if they show personal dynos.
what makes them any different from you? i dont see philip@injen or our nismo sponsor or people from apex-i, greddy, or jwt about get mad about results when argued. just take the criticism, everybody gets it.

Morris

iTrader: (1)

One way for people to get independent dynos is to buy the parts and do the dynos runs themselves. I know, that gets expensive, but that is what I am doing.

I have a baseline dyno on stock car. I have a dyno on borla + Crawford Hi-flow cats. I just added the Crawford plenum as well. I will dyno as soon as I can, but I went way over budget for Christmas, so I can't justify another set of dyno pulls just yet.

I will be happy to share the results when I get them.....

zxsaint

Ruin his joy? He spurted out a number that can only be derived from a dyno -- so he was asked to post a chart.

I'm sure anyone would do the same if I posted a thread saying "wow, installed a new intake and it feels great... I love the 10hp to the wheels."

Sure he is, and I am too -- but he's waiting for some proof that doesn't come from the manufacturer. Snake oil vendors will always claim a great product.

Look at car mags, why do they test vehicles? Why not just take the manuf. word for it? Why is there even a magazine called consumer reports? Because wether anyone likes it or not, quite a few manufacturers are full of sh|t, especially in this industry.

All I can say is I'm waiting for the competition. Wether or not these parts are any good, I think the crawford gang's abruptly defensive responses to simple and reasonable requests have instilled quite a bit of suspicion in the community.

I can't help to perseve this attitude with anything but the notion that they've got something to hide.

Another thing I find funny is the fact that about 10+ people have said "I'll be dynoing my crawford ___ pretty soon" and we never hear from them again. Kinda creepy

lowrider

iTrader: (3)

Gosh sakes, you guys. Don't you have anything else to do but badmouth Crawford? The same voices over and over. If you don't like it, don't buy it. Nobody's holding a gun to your head. Spend your money elsewhere. Why must you try to convince people that Crawford is up to no good?

Suggesting that they have "something to hide"? What the heck could that be?

"Creepy" that not all of us dyno our cars for you pleasure? What arrogance!

Doug lies on his Dynos? Huh? You guys are really full of it. You know what I mean? He's proven his stuff works, but that's not good enough for you.

Doug is really an asset to our community. He knows more about what does and doesn't work, than anybody I know, and all it takes is a phone call, and he'll share his knowledge with you. No charge, no problem. He loves to talk about the car, and personally, I love to listen. What a wealth of knowledge he has. And you guys bad mouth him! My, my what kind of people are you?

Does the plenum work? Heck Yes it does. If it didn't do you think Unique would be spending all this time and money trying to develop something a little different that may or may not work? Crawford did the research, makes the product, and is here now.

Lou

daytona350z

iTrader: (19)

who said he lies on his dynos? i dont think any of us did.
why is it only that crawford the only ones getting cranky and upset about other posts while different manuf. get the same crap? what makes them so special that we cannot question their gains?

i agree doug is an asset to our community, but like others have said let 3rd party persons show us their gains. you cannot go claiming 10rwhp just from a "butt dyno"

what if i said i got 21rwhp from that invidia exhaust, would you believe me then? they even a dyno plot showing the 21rwhp gain. but gyess what, that is the manufacture claim, and this is exactly what is being argued. so, would you believe if i had the 21hp gain or not? same thing goes for all performance enhancers to any type of car, dont just rely on the manuf. claims

DavesZ#3

iTrader: (26)

Well, I've certainly learned one thing from this thread - you better not post anything remotely skeptical of Crawford or the goon squad will pounce on your *ss.

Over the last year seeing posts like this about Stillen's attitude and treatment of its customers has prevented me from ever considering doing business with them. I'm starting to get that same feeling about dealing with Crawford.

Guys (from Crawford), lighten up! Everyone in a business has detractors; you'd better learn to live with them. Remember, perception is everything when dealing with the general public. You're turning off a lot more potential customers than you're convincing.

lowrider

iTrader: (3)

DavesZ

I'm really sorry if you feel that way. I feel the exact way you do about Stillen. But we have proof of shoddy customer relations there.

Crawford is another story. It's the same folks who bad mouth their products thread after thread, with no proof. Crawford has furniished proof that his stuff works.

I guess I'm passionate about their products because of the good luck I've had with my plenum, and with their advice. In addition, Doug Stweart is such a genuinely nice guy to do business with.

I hope you wont let a thread like this color your decisions on their products, because really, it will be your loss. They do make good quality stuff.

Lou

DavesZ#3

iTrader: (26)

Lou:

I didn't mean to imply that there was a problem with Crawford's service. I said that the past postings about Stillen and THEIR treatment of customers have lead me to essentially ignore Stillen as a possible vendor.

I'm just pointing out that these Crawford supporters come on rather strong and to a lot of people, that raises a red flag.

Look at the opposite end of the spectrum - ATI. People on this board are bashing them to hell and they've posted nary a word (officially).

Everybody will have detractors. It's just part of doing business. How you respond to and deal with them leaves a big impression on us emotionally detached observers. You don't see people from K&N, Injen, etc. getting into arguments here over their products, do you?

Stillen supposedly makes quality stuff too, but having to deal with someone goes way beyond just that. I