Dealer gouging stories
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From: Coconut Creek, FL
Originally posted by princesskcl
Not all dealers are like that. There are a few who are honoring the MSRP. Some with their cancellations honor the price of the pre-order customer. You just have to look.
Not all dealers are like that. There are a few who are honoring the MSRP. Some with their cancellations honor the price of the pre-order customer. You just have to look.
I'm looking.... I'm looking.... I haven't found one yet in Florida. I'll let you know when I do...
350Z-holic
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From: SoCal
: if some people are unable to see how capitalism can foster unethical, immoral, and at times amoral practices, as in the case of a car dealer, and if they are a dealer/salesman/ manager, they must have been put on the earth to be a car dealer/salesman/manager.
Ha ha ha. Capitalism is the only truly ethical system, because the buyer and seller must BOTH agree to the price. How would you like it some guy off the street offered you $X dollars for your car because that's what he thought it was worth, and you had no legal right to refuse?
Ha ha ha. Capitalism is the only truly ethical system, because the buyer and seller must BOTH agree to the price. How would you like it some guy off the street offered you $X dollars for your car because that's what he thought it was worth, and you had no legal right to refuse?
350Z-holic
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From: SoCal
So far 5 dealers offered me *7* different cancelled Z's at MSRP in 3 under weeks. None were above MSRP. They weren't what I wanted, so I turned them down. 2 dealers asked if I wanted to order at MSRP for a Dec. or Jan. delivery. And just today one called to offer an 5AT daytona blue which they're raffling off tomorrow at *MSRP*. Of course I want 6MT. I'm totally impressed though. I believe Nissan doesn't want bad press and so they're using their leverage to tie down dealers. That's the only way I can explain it. "The invisible hand" works wonders.
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As has already been mentioned, selling the cars at what the market will bear is not gouging and it isn't really unethical as long as they don't change the MSRP on the sticker (HIGHLY ILLEGAL!!!)
Whether or not it is bad business (bad word of mouth) is really for the dealer to decide, maybe the extra $5000 per car is worth it to them but that is their decision.
As far as it looking bad that Nissan's "affordable" car is now not so affordable from some dealers - I don't think I would agree. I work with about 1000 people, and probably at least half have seen the car, 100 have said something to me about it, 50 knew about the car before seeing mine, 1 other person preordered. Since I got it though, alot of people have been doing research on it and have come to me to ask how much over MSRP I paid.
It appears it is common knowledge that dealers are charging more for the car but the people I have talked to seem to be more impressed by it than offended. It seems they understand that if dealers are hiking the price the car must either be a) something special (a good thing for Nissan) or b) the hot item right now (also not so bad).
They also are (to the man) clever enough to know that waiting a little while will allow one to buy it at sticker.
As for the S2000, it is a bad example because of the considerably lower production numbers. A Corvette would be a better example, and the last time I checked, you could get one at or below sticker.
The dealer can only screw you if you let them.
Whether or not it is bad business (bad word of mouth) is really for the dealer to decide, maybe the extra $5000 per car is worth it to them but that is their decision.
As far as it looking bad that Nissan's "affordable" car is now not so affordable from some dealers - I don't think I would agree. I work with about 1000 people, and probably at least half have seen the car, 100 have said something to me about it, 50 knew about the car before seeing mine, 1 other person preordered. Since I got it though, alot of people have been doing research on it and have come to me to ask how much over MSRP I paid.
It appears it is common knowledge that dealers are charging more for the car but the people I have talked to seem to be more impressed by it than offended. It seems they understand that if dealers are hiking the price the car must either be a) something special (a good thing for Nissan) or b) the hot item right now (also not so bad).
They also are (to the man) clever enough to know that waiting a little while will allow one to buy it at sticker.
As for the S2000, it is a bad example because of the considerably lower production numbers. A Corvette would be a better example, and the last time I checked, you could get one at or below sticker.
The dealer can only screw you if you let them.
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From: asdfasdf
Tom Peacock Nissan in Houston
Do I have a story too . . . I go in to pre-order my brickyard Touring Z with splashguards and carpets, and the Sales Manager adds the obligatory $540 transport fee and another $380 warranty fee, then after all the pricing (which should have stopped at $32,726) I see a price of $34,726. I ask him what the extra $2000 was for and he says "Dealer fee". I ask him to clarify this and he gives me some crap about how hard it is to get these cars and that it will be $2000 over sticker. He must have thought I'm some complete fool who hasn't been researching this for the last month, so I told him to shove it because no other dealer in Houston has thrown this bullsh*t in my face. He quickly erases the $2000 charge, and I of course order it because he's given me the earliest delivery date (December) of any other dealership in Houston. What can I say, dealers suck.
Joined: Jun 2002
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First Z
Originally posted by cbrake
I was told by my Dealer that Nissan would not allow them to sell pre-orders over MSRP. However, cars they have in stock, they can charge whatever people are willing to pay.
I was a bit leary about ordering a car I had never seen in person, as I had never done that before. I asked the Sales Manager what my options were if I didn't want the car. He said you just lose the deposit. He went on to say, that they cannot get the pre-orders unless they are ordered by someone, and that they will make more money on a car if someone decides to not take it. In other words, they will charge over MSRP for Zs on their lot.
Frankly, if I do not decide to take the car, I'm guessing I'll be able to get my $500 deposit back. I'll just let the dealer know if they don't give the deposit back, I'll simply buy it and re-sell it. For them, its the difference of making $500, or a couple of thousand.
At any rate, I see nothing wrong with charging what the market is willing to pay. For those of you that do, was Nissan unethical for auctioning off the first production Z on Ebay for $90,000? Of course not. To someone with alot of money out there, having the first production model as a collectors item, was worth it to them, to pay almost 3 times what the MSRP of the car is.
I think some of you confuse price gouging with how a free market economy works. First of all, owning a new Z is a luxury item. It is not a necessity. It is not something you need to survive. The demand for the car, far out weighs the supply. Its simple economics: Short supply + High Demand = Higher Prices. That's how a fair market enocomy works. It is not unfair to charge a premium for a luxury item. People are paying these premium prices, or they wouldn't be charging that much.
Price Gouging is taking advantage of artificial changes to supply and demand related to goods and services that are considered a necessity, and it usually occurs after some type of tragedy or natural disaster. Increased food prices after a Hurricane ..... increased hotel and gas prices in certain areas after 9/11 ..... those are examples of unethical price gouging. Dealers charging a few thousand over MSRP on a luxury item, because a whole lot of people what that item, is far from price gouging.
The bottom line is, a 350z is a luxury item, not a necessity (a car may be considered a necessity, but there are a tons of car options, other than a Z). That alone would exclude it from price gouging laws.
I was told by my Dealer that Nissan would not allow them to sell pre-orders over MSRP. However, cars they have in stock, they can charge whatever people are willing to pay.
I was a bit leary about ordering a car I had never seen in person, as I had never done that before. I asked the Sales Manager what my options were if I didn't want the car. He said you just lose the deposit. He went on to say, that they cannot get the pre-orders unless they are ordered by someone, and that they will make more money on a car if someone decides to not take it. In other words, they will charge over MSRP for Zs on their lot.
Frankly, if I do not decide to take the car, I'm guessing I'll be able to get my $500 deposit back. I'll just let the dealer know if they don't give the deposit back, I'll simply buy it and re-sell it. For them, its the difference of making $500, or a couple of thousand.
At any rate, I see nothing wrong with charging what the market is willing to pay. For those of you that do, was Nissan unethical for auctioning off the first production Z on Ebay for $90,000? Of course not. To someone with alot of money out there, having the first production model as a collectors item, was worth it to them, to pay almost 3 times what the MSRP of the car is.
I think some of you confuse price gouging with how a free market economy works. First of all, owning a new Z is a luxury item. It is not a necessity. It is not something you need to survive. The demand for the car, far out weighs the supply. Its simple economics: Short supply + High Demand = Higher Prices. That's how a fair market enocomy works. It is not unfair to charge a premium for a luxury item. People are paying these premium prices, or they wouldn't be charging that much.
Price Gouging is taking advantage of artificial changes to supply and demand related to goods and services that are considered a necessity, and it usually occurs after some type of tragedy or natural disaster. Increased food prices after a Hurricane ..... increased hotel and gas prices in certain areas after 9/11 ..... those are examples of unethical price gouging. Dealers charging a few thousand over MSRP on a luxury item, because a whole lot of people what that item, is far from price gouging.
The bottom line is, a 350z is a luxury item, not a necessity (a car may be considered a necessity, but there are a tons of car options, other than a Z). That alone would exclude it from price gouging laws.
Boomer
Last edited by Boomer; Sep 22, 2002 at 04:58 PM.
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From: San Diego, CA
Originally posted by nbdyfcnsqnc
So far 5 dealers offered me *7* different cancelled Z's at MSRP in 3 under weeks. None were above MSRP. They weren't what I wanted, so I turned them down. 2 dealers asked if I wanted to order at MSRP for a Dec. or Jan. delivery. And just today one called to offer an 5AT daytona blue which they're raffling off tomorrow at *MSRP*. Of course I want 6MT. I'm totally impressed though. I believe Nissan doesn't want bad press and so they're using their leverage to tie down dealers. That's the only way I can explain it. "The invisible hand" works wonders.
So far 5 dealers offered me *7* different cancelled Z's at MSRP in 3 under weeks. None were above MSRP. They weren't what I wanted, so I turned them down. 2 dealers asked if I wanted to order at MSRP for a Dec. or Jan. delivery. And just today one called to offer an 5AT daytona blue which they're raffling off tomorrow at *MSRP*. Of course I want 6MT. I'm totally impressed though. I believe Nissan doesn't want bad press and so they're using their leverage to tie down dealers. That's the only way I can explain it. "The invisible hand" works wonders.
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Joined: May 2002
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From: FARGO!!
I have the Dealer gouging story to end all dealer gouging stories
It's not a 350Z, but still is one of a kind. I was 17 at the time (still am 18 in a month) and I was searching online for MY dream car, a 93-02 Trans Am. Well I found it (so I thought) it was a 95 Trans Am, 82K miles, red T-tops, CD changer, but no leather, for $7,500 (which is how much I had saved up, ater 3 years o working fast food) listed online. I thought this was a really good deal, so I checked it out. I loved it, I test drove it, I PAYED to get it inspected by an independent mechanic, etc etc, when finally was ready to buy. He saidhe replaced the Opti (notoriouse for going out on these cars) and put 4 brand new tires on since the time he posted it online, andjumped the price to 8,500. I was crushed, totally crushed. We almost got him for the bait and switch, but he said "I didn't know how to change the price" which was total bull. (we even bought him a pop at my mechanics place!!) He then told us the car is not for sale, then listed the car again, for $9,200, which, is absolutley rediculus. THERE is a happy ending though,5 months later, after searching and yadda yadda, I found m dream car again, only better, it ws white (my color) a 94, had only 21K (never seen an 94-93 with this low of miles, anywhere) mileson it, T-tops, 10 speakers, leather, electrical seats, I mean everything, and this thing was MINT! I only had 2 modifications to it, subframe connectors, anda strut brace. It had brand new tires on it, It had been stored in a heated garage majority of it's life. After the 4 months, I could afford this price of only 8500
. It has been, my baby/project ever since. I always tell people, there is always a better deal, cuz it's true.
. It has been, my baby/project ever since. I always tell people, there is always a better deal, cuz it's true.
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Joined: Jul 2002
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From: florida
unfortunately thats why its called
M anufacturers
S uggested
R etail
P rice
note: if everyone would pay sticker for every car there would be no over charging but everyone wants to negotiate so heres what happens
when you buy a pair of shoes no one says i"ll give you $75 for that $100 pair and you should see the mark up in shoes
nikes cost $8 to make and go for $170 now thats the business to be in
ttfn
M anufacturers
S uggested
R etail
P rice
note: if everyone would pay sticker for every car there would be no over charging but everyone wants to negotiate so heres what happens
when you buy a pair of shoes no one says i"ll give you $75 for that $100 pair and you should see the mark up in shoes
nikes cost $8 to make and go for $170 now thats the business to be in
ttfn
350Z-holic
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From: SoCal
importriders, try calling Kathy Fullerton at Corona Nissan. Their number is 909-735-3360. She also has a silvertone Touring with orange seats coming up soon (cancelled pre-order), but she's probably sold it by now. If she asks who told you, you can say Todd who ordered the SS Enthusiast a few weeks ago.
Torrance would also let me order one for Jan., but I think they're down to February by now.
I'd stay away from Long Beach (March), Huntington Beach (can't order, too small I think), and Buena Park (bunch of lying scam artists).
Torrance would also let me order one for Jan., but I think they're down to February by now.
I'd stay away from Long Beach (March), Huntington Beach (can't order, too small I think), and Buena Park (bunch of lying scam artists).
Registered User
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From: socal
Originally posted by nbdyfcnsqnc
So far 5 dealers offered me *7* different cancelled Z's at MSRP in 3 under weeks. None were above MSRP. They weren't what I wanted, so I turned them down. 2 dealers asked if I wanted to order at MSRP for a Dec. or Jan. delivery. And just today one called to offer an 5AT daytona blue which they're raffling off tomorrow at *MSRP*. Of course I want 6MT. I'm totally impressed though. I believe Nissan doesn't want bad press and so they're using their leverage to tie down dealers. That's the only way I can explain it. "The invisible hand" works wonders.
So far 5 dealers offered me *7* different cancelled Z's at MSRP in 3 under weeks. None were above MSRP. They weren't what I wanted, so I turned them down. 2 dealers asked if I wanted to order at MSRP for a Dec. or Jan. delivery. And just today one called to offer an 5AT daytona blue which they're raffling off tomorrow at *MSRP*. Of course I want 6MT. I'm totally impressed though. I believe Nissan doesn't want bad press and so they're using their leverage to tie down dealers. That's the only way I can explain it. "The invisible hand" works wonders.
17" cheesy looking chrome wheels ($2100)
Front end mask
Paint sealant (yeah right!)
Sony XM radio ($895)
car cover
etc
So the total came to about $5000 worth of useless or overpriced options to pad their wallet. So it really wasnt MSRP IMO.
350Z-holic
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From: SoCal
Ah, I see g35or350z. (But I think you mean 5AT.) Thanks for the info. Then I hope everyone here adds Irvine to the list of places never to shop, because that sucks worse than just saying "5000 above MSRP." It's a scam. I hope the invisible hand flips them off.
The guy did start to read the list of "options" it had, but the first one was 5AT and I said no thanks. And I know Buena Park is doing the same thing, but they didn't even have the courtesy to tell me over the phone.
The guy did start to read the list of "options" it had, but the first one was 5AT and I said no thanks. And I know Buena Park is doing the same thing, but they didn't even have the courtesy to tell me over the phone.
Charter Member #88
Joined: Jun 2002
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From: Nashville,Tn
Re: Reprise #2
Originally posted by Boomer
I paid $299 over the price of the Z. They wanted $299 for PDI and $99 for a documents fee. I said it was a hidden charge and they needed to remove it. My salesman, who has become the sales manager, came back with $100 knocked off.
I paid $299 over the price of the Z. They wanted $299 for PDI and $99 for a documents fee. I said it was a hidden charge and they needed to remove it. My salesman, who has become the sales manager, came back with $100 knocked off.
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Joined: May 2002
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From: Houston
I am all for dealers being able to price and sell the car for what they want. My biatch about all of this is that the dealers should be concerned about customer satisfaction to get the repeat and follow-up business, and they have lost sight of that. A car is sitting on the dealer lot right now that is so similar to what I ordered that I wanted to buy it. I could ad the mats, that I told the dealer I would buy from them at MSRP, and then it would be exactly what I orderd. But nooo, they told me that if you want the care we have now, it will be 10K over sticker. If I want MSRP, I'll have to wait for my order to come in.
As I have said before, once I get my car, I will never go back to that dealer to buy another car, for any service, or for maintenance work. Why? Because of their greed to make a dollar now, and not satisfy a current customer base.
I think the dealerships would be better off satisfying all of their pre-order customers first, by matching cancelled cars to people in their list waiting. Then, once their pre-order customers taken care of, price the those last cars coming in wherever the market will take. This way the dealership satisfies pre-order customers, we ar e more likely to recommend the dealer we dealt with, and we go back to the delaer for more stuff.
I will never recommend BAKER-JACKSON NISSAN in Houston to anyone. I mean $80 for wheel locks for a Z. C'mon, I'm a pre-order customer and the already have my business at MSRP, why bleed me. BTW, Thanks Courtesy Nissan for selling me wheel locks at $22. My dealer just said good for you glad you bought them .
Greg
As I have said before, once I get my car, I will never go back to that dealer to buy another car, for any service, or for maintenance work. Why? Because of their greed to make a dollar now, and not satisfy a current customer base.
I think the dealerships would be better off satisfying all of their pre-order customers first, by matching cancelled cars to people in their list waiting. Then, once their pre-order customers taken care of, price the those last cars coming in wherever the market will take. This way the dealership satisfies pre-order customers, we ar e more likely to recommend the dealer we dealt with, and we go back to the delaer for more stuff.
I will never recommend BAKER-JACKSON NISSAN in Houston to anyone. I mean $80 for wheel locks for a Z. C'mon, I'm a pre-order customer and the already have my business at MSRP, why bleed me. BTW, Thanks Courtesy Nissan for selling me wheel locks at $22. My dealer just said good for you glad you bought them .
Greg
Joined: Jun 2002
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Re: Re: Reprise #2
Originally posted by Thunderbolt
This a damn good example of an unethical dealership practice! Nissan pays the dealership to PDI the car. The unethical dealership charges the customer to clean up the car. Unethical dealership get paid twice! Can one of the 'car dealership employees' that seem to think this is ok please explaine why it is ok? How lying is ok?
This a damn good example of an unethical dealership practice! Nissan pays the dealership to PDI the car. The unethical dealership charges the customer to clean up the car. Unethical dealership get paid twice! Can one of the 'car dealership employees' that seem to think this is ok please explaine why it is ok? How lying is ok?
Boomer
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From: Coconut Creek, FL
It looks like "overpricing" of the 350z has now started to move into the "used" car market.
Check out the following e-mail I received:
Great News!! We just received a pre-owned 2003 Nissan 350Z Touring Edition in Super Black today with just over 1000 miles.
If you are interested in seeing this vehicle before it is sold, please give me a call or e-mail me for an appointment to see this awesome new car.
The sales price for this vehicle will be $38,500 plus tax, tag, and fees and it will not be here for long so, if you are interested, please hurry!!
We are still taking orders for new 2003 350Zs that will arrive in early 2003.
Sincerely,
Paul Favorite
E-Commerce Director
Maroone Auto Plaza of Pembroke Pines
That's only about $4k over msrp. Of course I could give benifit of the doubt and assume this car has NAV and side air bags. That would drop it to $1500 over msrp.....
Check out the following e-mail I received:
Great News!! We just received a pre-owned 2003 Nissan 350Z Touring Edition in Super Black today with just over 1000 miles.
If you are interested in seeing this vehicle before it is sold, please give me a call or e-mail me for an appointment to see this awesome new car.
The sales price for this vehicle will be $38,500 plus tax, tag, and fees and it will not be here for long so, if you are interested, please hurry!!
We are still taking orders for new 2003 350Zs that will arrive in early 2003.
Sincerely,
Paul Favorite
E-Commerce Director
Maroone Auto Plaza of Pembroke Pines
That's only about $4k over msrp. Of course I could give benifit of the doubt and assume this car has NAV and side air bags. That would drop it to $1500 over msrp.....
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