MannishBoy

iTrader: (1)

Moving thread. Doesn't really fit the Engine/Drivetrain/Forced Induction section that much

MannishBoy

iTrader: (1)

So, you are saying both brake and gas pedals are really under the top part of your foot, with the heel still being on the floorboard?

That's the only way my foot fits easily (13s), so that is what I've done.

seanazzy

i've never quite understood the concept of double clutching? at first i always heard about it when driving mack's with like 10-18 gears and then i heard about it with racing as i was younger. anybody with some insight?

NismoKid

I don't know if other people refer to double clutching the same way I do, but I don't see the use of it. From what I've been told, it's for cars without synchros (modern cars have them) in the trans, which would require putting the car in neutral and then back in the next gear. Synchros make shifting easier and smooth.

John

iTrader: (17)

Correct.

Desi Z 07

i have one noob question to ask. How come when you are doing heel toe, you can apply throttle with the clutch engaged? From what i know, wouldnt this stall teh car, or am i just missing something?

afr0puff

iTrader: (1)

No... when you are doing heel toe, you have the clutch pressed. Every time you are "blipping" the throttle, the clutch should be pressed.

I want to practice heel/toe more often, but I get scared my foot will slide off the brake pedal and I'll run over pedestrians. Especially in the city where they J walk like b!tches. I'd blip the throttle and get ready for the fun of releasing the clutch and then some ******** crosses my path and I have to quickly dump it in neutral and mash the brake.

Pagan

I heel/toe a lot on the street, but I'm still kinda new to the AutoX scene, and I'm normally not paying enough attention. You rarely downshift in AutoX anyway.

Let's take a longer look at why you'd hee/toe.

You're coming down the end of a long straight, and you're flying. Top gear, 100MPH plus. But there's a turn coming up. You need to slow the car down, and get it ready for accelerating out of the turn.

First, you put the clutch in, and brake. The car slows down to your entry speed (let's say 45mph for this example) and you enter the turn. What's next? You'll need to give it gas to come out of the turn. But if you just dump it into second, it'll "shock" the car, as the engine will try to slow down the rear wheels, possibly locking them up. The car will certainly be unbalanced, especially if you're right at the limit. So, with most of your right foot holding down the brake, you kinda squinch it over and blip the throttle with the outside part of your foot, bringing the engine speed back up to where it needs to be. Then you let the clutch out. When done properly, you shouldn't even be able to feel that a shift has been made.

Double clutching is only done when downshifting. You clutch, take the car out of gear and into neutral, let the clutch out, then press it back in to shift into the next gear. Most modern street cars don't require this, as they have synchros. You know how when you're trying to downshift and it's like you have to REALLY SHOVE the stick to get it into gear? It's because the synchros are resisting, (doing their job) as you haven't matched the engine and wheel speeds properly. Double clutching and blipping the engine will prevent this. Most race cars don't have synchronized gear boxes, so double clutching is not optional. And, if you put your street car into a real race (400 laps or so) your transmission prolly won't have working synchros by the time your done

A pro driver is doing all this at the same time. With his clutch foot, he's double clutching as he moves the stick from gear to neutral and back into gear, while at the same time he's using his right foot to brake AND blip the throttle at the same time. It takes practice, but it's something you can safely practice every time you drive your manual car.

MannishBoy

iTrader: (1)

Thanks Makes me feel a bit better. My foot in this car if I tried to truly put my heel on the gas and the left side of the ball of my foot on the brake goes into the wiring above the brake pedal.

GY-Z

that is correct!
a car mabye back in 15 years will require to do a double clutch!

John

iTrader: (17)

And you have a valid concern. I have in fact slipped off the brake pedal, the last time being at VIR at the end of the back straight. I decided to take the race line, went for the brake, and slid right between the brake and throttle.... needless to say, I recovered, and had to enter the rollercoaster in neutral... oops...

Z1 Performance

iTrader: (564)

I guess I am the reverse...I have been racing for 10 years now, and honestly never do it because I never feel the need, nor has it improved lap times...just gives me one more thing to think about doing.

Rev matching is another story - but truth be told that is the proper way to drive a manual car anyway if synchro life is important.

Adam

acceler8

I've found that Heel-Toe in normal Day to Day, while good practice is kinda misleading. On the street, I am rarely downshifting to the same RPM's as I am at track day or autocross. It takes so much more of a "blip" of the throttle to get the RPM's to say 6000 than to 5000 at a redlight. I do try and extend my Rev's when I practice on the street though. I am sure all my fellow road mates all wonder what the hell I am doing whith my car screaming to redline as I slow to a stop sign:-)'

patdsaunders

iTrader: (2)

I'm going to have to chime in again. I have raced and been on teams at the amature level (some pro) for 13 years and I have instructed the heel and toe technique. I have never met a good racer who did not heel and toe or left foot brake. Note: don't know anyone who double clutches unless the transmission is going bad.

In general, you should heel and toe while approaching a corner, not while in the corner. Threshold brake with the ball of the right foot. When you have slowed enough for the lower gear, use the side of the foot or heel on the gas as you put in the clutch. Shift quickly, blip the trottle and ease out the clutch in that order - about half a second. Every corner is different, but these are the basics. Do not try to do this as a beginner except in a straight line - not in a corner.

I wonder if Dwnshft would chime in on how he does it (professional).

boyze

more of the same

http://www.tcsracing.org/heelandtoe.htm

longbowe

Hrmm. I've practiced a little with ball-heel brake-throttle, but the time when I've done the best with such downshifting was left-right ball brake-throttle. While hurtling down Highway 9. The Bay Area guys know what I'm talking about. That was when I was going up the hill much more often, though, and it was when I'd gotten a better feel for the rhythm. I haven't been able to replicate that for some time because of the reduced visits.

adrianko43

iTrader: (2)

are you supposed to feather the clutch a little when you heel toe, or just dump the clutch?

Morning Wood

i do it every time (when i'm not lazy). at some point you feel like you're hurting your car if you don't.

Morning Wood

if i'm confident i revved properly i don't feather it. i'm not as experienced as some of these other guys though.