350Z vs S2000
05-09-2004 | 01:20 AM
#121
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From: Jacksonville, FL
Originally posted by yiaquemini
On the highway above 80mph, even Corvetts get suprised and caught by the s2k's 9000rpm redline Vtec dust.
On the highway above 80mph, even Corvetts get suprised and caught by the s2k's 9000rpm redline Vtec dust.
Originally posted by yiaquemini
The vq35 engine is not a true sports car engine (dosnt rev very high), but its still a great engine that won top 10 engines of the year for the past 9 years.
The vq35 engine is not a true sports car engine (dosnt rev very high), but its still a great engine that won top 10 engines of the year for the past 9 years.
05-09-2004 | 03:28 AM
#122
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From: ca
Originally posted by BDM
That must be because of the drivers. There is no reasonable way that the heavier (by 200 lbs.) of 2 cars with the same engine and suspension is going to be the faster one.
That must be because of the drivers. There is no reasonable way that the heavier (by 200 lbs.) of 2 cars with the same engine and suspension is going to be the faster one.
05-09-2004 | 05:09 AM
#123
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From: Dayton OH
Originally posted by BDM
OK - IF the S2000 (in full VTEC boil) "surprised" an unsuspecting Corvette plodding along on the highway in 6th gear, then yes, it would be diffucult for the Corvette to catch and pass the S2000 by the time the cars reach 110 mph. But just because the S2000 has a higher red line, that doesn't mean it's the master of higher speeds. Cars with more power and less drag, like the Corvette and 350Z, accelerate much better at higher speeds.
How an engine goes about doing its work is not as important as how well it works. There are numerous engines with similar redlines (like the fairly recent air-cooled Porsches, Vipers, Corvette Z06s, and the last Supras). You can't just say an engine isn't sporty because it doesn't rev to X RPM. I believe that you are hung up on comparisons to race engines - and that's not a fair comparison, because almost all race engines are restircted by displacement. To get more power out of an engine of a given displacement you have to either go forced induction or spin it faster. Production sports cars simply don't have that displacement restiction and you see different manufacturers doing different things. Mitsubishi likes turbo I4s, Mazda likes rotaries, Chevy likes small-block V8s, BMW likes I6s, Toyota likes turbo I6s, Nissan likes V6's, and Honda likes high-reving I4's. All of these are designed to make power in different ways, but all accomlish it well.
OK - IF the S2000 (in full VTEC boil) "surprised" an unsuspecting Corvette plodding along on the highway in 6th gear, then yes, it would be diffucult for the Corvette to catch and pass the S2000 by the time the cars reach 110 mph. But just because the S2000 has a higher red line, that doesn't mean it's the master of higher speeds. Cars with more power and less drag, like the Corvette and 350Z, accelerate much better at higher speeds.
How an engine goes about doing its work is not as important as how well it works. There are numerous engines with similar redlines (like the fairly recent air-cooled Porsches, Vipers, Corvette Z06s, and the last Supras). You can't just say an engine isn't sporty because it doesn't rev to X RPM. I believe that you are hung up on comparisons to race engines - and that's not a fair comparison, because almost all race engines are restircted by displacement. To get more power out of an engine of a given displacement you have to either go forced induction or spin it faster. Production sports cars simply don't have that displacement restiction and you see different manufacturers doing different things. Mitsubishi likes turbo I4s, Mazda likes rotaries, Chevy likes small-block V8s, BMW likes I6s, Toyota likes turbo I6s, Nissan likes V6's, and Honda likes high-reving I4's. All of these are designed to make power in different ways, but all accomlish it well.
05-09-2004 | 09:34 AM
#124
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Joined: Apr 2004
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From: Washington DC
yeah, well stated
I did say "suprised" because vetts are a class higher, with much more powerful engine. S2k is supposed to be the underdog. But if you've driven one then I dont think you would dare to say the 350z accelerate much better at higher speeds.
As for the engine argument, The vq35 was not designed specifically to be a sports car engine. Its a great engine designed to be very flexible so they can fit it in all types of different cars. Nissan has done a great job at tuning the vq35 into a sports car engine. It was unfair of me earlier to say its not a sports car engine, because I was thinking about exotic cars like Ferraris and Lamborghinis, they tend to have big displacement engines but with small cylinders and many cylinders to achieve Low end torque and high rev at the same time. For example, the ferrari 360 uses a 3.6 liter V8 to get max torque of 275@4750 and 400hp@8500. Low-end torque is important, but high revs goes a long way toward high speed dominance. So I was totally unfair in comparing the vq35 to engines of exotic cars that cost 5 times as much as the 350z. Im very proud of Nissan to tune the vq35 to behave very similar to the porsche 911. Its not as good, but for $30k you cant complain. and yep, you were right about different cars achieve power in different way, and I was wrong in saying the vq35 is not a sports car engine.
I did say "suprised" because vetts are a class higher, with much more powerful engine. S2k is supposed to be the underdog. But if you've driven one then I dont think you would dare to say the 350z accelerate much better at higher speeds.
As for the engine argument, The vq35 was not designed specifically to be a sports car engine. Its a great engine designed to be very flexible so they can fit it in all types of different cars. Nissan has done a great job at tuning the vq35 into a sports car engine. It was unfair of me earlier to say its not a sports car engine, because I was thinking about exotic cars like Ferraris and Lamborghinis, they tend to have big displacement engines but with small cylinders and many cylinders to achieve Low end torque and high rev at the same time. For example, the ferrari 360 uses a 3.6 liter V8 to get max torque of 275@4750 and 400hp@8500. Low-end torque is important, but high revs goes a long way toward high speed dominance. So I was totally unfair in comparing the vq35 to engines of exotic cars that cost 5 times as much as the 350z. Im very proud of Nissan to tune the vq35 to behave very similar to the porsche 911. Its not as good, but for $30k you cant complain. and yep, you were right about different cars achieve power in different way, and I was wrong in saying the vq35 is not a sports car engine.
05-09-2004 | 11:45 PM
#125
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From: ca
the vq is more of a truck engine (or at least a multi-purpose engine) than a sports car engine. i would think sports cars would benefit from a bigger rev range if it results in taller gears, fewer shifts to get to speed.
05-10-2004 | 01:38 AM
#126
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From: Dayton OH
Originally posted by ml2316
the vq is more of a truck engine (or at least a multi-purpose engine) than a sports car engine. i would think sports cars would benefit from a bigger rev range if it results in taller gears, fewer shifts to get to speed.
the vq is more of a truck engine (or at least a multi-purpose engine) than a sports car engine. i would think sports cars would benefit from a bigger rev range if it results in taller gears, fewer shifts to get to speed.
If the Z lacks a little top end so what? This effect is really only amplified when comparing to the S because the S gets its burst of acceleration through VTEC at high rpm.
AS BDM stated, "How an engine goes about doing its work is not as important as how well it works"
If you own a Z then, Shift_ low end-use it
05-10-2004 | 05:22 AM
#127
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From: City of Lost Angels
Originally posted by ml2316
the vq is more of a truck engine (or at least a multi-purpose engine) than a sports car engine. i would think sports cars would benefit from a bigger rev range if it results in taller gears, fewer shifts to get to speed.
the vq is more of a truck engine (or at least a multi-purpose engine) than a sports car engine. i would think sports cars would benefit from a bigger rev range if it results in taller gears, fewer shifts to get to speed.
i think you skipped some thread replies...readabove.
05-10-2004 | 07:02 AM
#128
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From: Dayton OH
The following data is from www.new-cars.com
Gear Ratio ’03 350Z
1st 3.794
2nd 2.324
3rd 1.624
4th 1.271
5th 1.000
6th 0.974 -
Reverse 3.446
Final Drive Ratio 3.538
Gear Ratios ’03 S2000:
1st gear 3.133
2nd gear 2.045
3rd gear 1.481
4th gear 1.161
5th gear 0.971
6th gear 0.811
Reverse: 2.800
Primary Gear Reduction 1.160
Final Drive Ratio 4.1
Gear Ratios ’04 S2000:
1st gear 3.133
2nd gear 2.045
3rd gear 1.481
4th gear 1.161
5th gear 0.942
6th gear 0.763
Reverse: 2.800
Primary Gear Reduction 1.208
Final Drive Ratio 4.1
Both the Z and the S are pretty close 0-60, ¼ mile, top speed etc. However, different redlines, different power bands, and different gear ratios.
Once again, "How an engine goes about doing its work is not as important as how well it works". The Z and S go about doing their work differently but they both work just about as well.
Gear Ratio ’03 350Z
1st 3.794
2nd 2.324
3rd 1.624
4th 1.271
5th 1.000
6th 0.974 -
Reverse 3.446
Final Drive Ratio 3.538
Gear Ratios ’03 S2000:
1st gear 3.133
2nd gear 2.045
3rd gear 1.481
4th gear 1.161
5th gear 0.971
6th gear 0.811
Reverse: 2.800
Primary Gear Reduction 1.160
Final Drive Ratio 4.1
Gear Ratios ’04 S2000:
1st gear 3.133
2nd gear 2.045
3rd gear 1.481
4th gear 1.161
5th gear 0.942
6th gear 0.763
Reverse: 2.800
Primary Gear Reduction 1.208
Final Drive Ratio 4.1
Both the Z and the S are pretty close 0-60, ¼ mile, top speed etc. However, different redlines, different power bands, and different gear ratios.
Once again, "How an engine goes about doing its work is not as important as how well it works". The Z and S go about doing their work differently but they both work just about as well.
05-10-2004 | 07:02 AM
#129
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 593
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From: Japan
yeah, well stated
I did say "suprised" because vetts are a class higher, with much more powerful engine. S2k is supposed to be the underdog. But if you've driven one then I dont think you would dare to say the 350z accelerate much better at higher speeds.
Er... the 350z does accelerate better at higher speed now that it can carry its weight with the power gained from low end torque. S2k accelerates better down low, Z better beyond 100mph. With 4 posts, I don't expect you to know too much about either cars.
As for the engine argument, The vq35 was not designed specifically to be a sports car engine. Its a great engine designed to be very flexible so they can fit it in all types of different cars. Nissan has done a great job at tuning the vq35 into a sports car engine.
Define a sports engine.
That's right you can't unless you're referring to the engine of a bus or huge trucks.
They will either be low displacement, high revving engines, or high displacement, low revving motors.
The first VQ in 94 was low tech (had no variable valve timing) but had enough torque to proper some of the earlier Nissan Maximas to 60mph in 6.7 seconds (3100lbs and 190 horses). It had aluminium alloy cuts to reduce weight and give the engine a free revving character.
Nissan had managed to reduce the weight of the engine significantly, creating an engine that could produce a lot of power for different purposes. It was a very "clockable" engine, which eventually led it to become the heart of Nissan's flagship sports car, Luxury heavyweight cars and 4WD vehicles. Name another engine with the same kind of influences as the VQ.
It was unfair of me earlier to say its not a sports car engine, because I was thinking about exotic cars like Ferraris and Lamborghinis, they tend to have big displacement engines but with small cylinders and many cylinders to achieve Low end torque and high rev at the same time. For example, the ferrari 360 uses a 3.6 liter V8 to get max torque of 275@4750 and 400hp@8500. Low-end torque is important, but high revs goes a long way toward high speed dominance. So I was totally unfair in comparing the vq35 to engines of exotic cars that cost 5 times as much as the 350z. Im very proud of Nissan to tune the vq35 to behave very similar to the porsche 911. Its not as good, but for $30k you cant complain.
Ferrari only makes sports cars (officially), and there is a price to pay for that. They cater to the high end sports car enthusiasts who can afford to bill thousands and thousands of dollars in repair and maintenance.
The VQ is the reliable, everyday, all purpose engine which anybody can have access to. If Nissan wanted to, they too can produce a similar configuration to the 360, but like most Japanese car manufacturers, large displacement engines are not that popular in sports cars, hence the use of FI. The Nissan Skyline GTR stock RB26 is only 2.6 litres and produces around "300" hp with twin turboes. Some customised GTRs have over 1000hp and redlining at 9000.
The VQ 3.5 is said to do even better than that due to its larger capacity and recent development.
Actually, its already being used by the Skyline GTR and Nissan 350z at the JTGC which has both won their respective category championship group.
and yep, you were right about different cars achieve power in different way, and I was wrong in saying the vq35 is not a sports car engine.
So now you know!
I did say "suprised" because vetts are a class higher, with much more powerful engine. S2k is supposed to be the underdog. But if you've driven one then I dont think you would dare to say the 350z accelerate much better at higher speeds.
Er... the 350z does accelerate better at higher speed now that it can carry its weight with the power gained from low end torque. S2k accelerates better down low, Z better beyond 100mph. With 4 posts, I don't expect you to know too much about either cars.
As for the engine argument, The vq35 was not designed specifically to be a sports car engine. Its a great engine designed to be very flexible so they can fit it in all types of different cars. Nissan has done a great job at tuning the vq35 into a sports car engine.
Define a sports engine.
That's right you can't unless you're referring to the engine of a bus or huge trucks.
They will either be low displacement, high revving engines, or high displacement, low revving motors.
The first VQ in 94 was low tech (had no variable valve timing) but had enough torque to proper some of the earlier Nissan Maximas to 60mph in 6.7 seconds (3100lbs and 190 horses). It had aluminium alloy cuts to reduce weight and give the engine a free revving character.
Nissan had managed to reduce the weight of the engine significantly, creating an engine that could produce a lot of power for different purposes. It was a very "clockable" engine, which eventually led it to become the heart of Nissan's flagship sports car, Luxury heavyweight cars and 4WD vehicles. Name another engine with the same kind of influences as the VQ.
It was unfair of me earlier to say its not a sports car engine, because I was thinking about exotic cars like Ferraris and Lamborghinis, they tend to have big displacement engines but with small cylinders and many cylinders to achieve Low end torque and high rev at the same time. For example, the ferrari 360 uses a 3.6 liter V8 to get max torque of 275@4750 and 400hp@8500. Low-end torque is important, but high revs goes a long way toward high speed dominance. So I was totally unfair in comparing the vq35 to engines of exotic cars that cost 5 times as much as the 350z. Im very proud of Nissan to tune the vq35 to behave very similar to the porsche 911. Its not as good, but for $30k you cant complain.
Ferrari only makes sports cars (officially), and there is a price to pay for that. They cater to the high end sports car enthusiasts who can afford to bill thousands and thousands of dollars in repair and maintenance.
The VQ is the reliable, everyday, all purpose engine which anybody can have access to. If Nissan wanted to, they too can produce a similar configuration to the 360, but like most Japanese car manufacturers, large displacement engines are not that popular in sports cars, hence the use of FI. The Nissan Skyline GTR stock RB26 is only 2.6 litres and produces around "300" hp with twin turboes. Some customised GTRs have over 1000hp and redlining at 9000.
The VQ 3.5 is said to do even better than that due to its larger capacity and recent development.
Actually, its already being used by the Skyline GTR and Nissan 350z at the JTGC which has both won their respective category championship group.
and yep, you were right about different cars achieve power in different way, and I was wrong in saying the vq35 is not a sports car engine.
So now you know!
05-10-2004 | 03:48 PM
#130
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 114
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From: Washington DC
lol, i respect totally what BDM replied to me what he says makes sense.
pulpz2 is right also about the powerbands of both cars, 350z is better low end and s2k sucks there, but gets its power on the high end. I personally likes the 350z better because its more balanced.
As for shiri lol, s2k accerate better downlow than 350z, and 350z is faster at high speeds? lol, right, u know soo much about both cars. Im not even in the mood to argue, so think what u will mr expert.
"With 4 posts, I don't expect you to know too much about either cars." and u are just soooo mad that i didnt praise the 350z like a god and express my own oppinion lol, its not that serious, its just a forum. u spent all that time, wasted all that space, flaming me to confirm something that ive already admited my self. That 350z's engine is a sports cars engine. Now i know where ur 322 posts come from lol. calm down. that was a totally useless post that picks at an argument thats already over. more like ure trying to show off ur knowlege about cars than adding anything useful to the argument. Post Wh*re
pulpz2 is right also about the powerbands of both cars, 350z is better low end and s2k sucks there, but gets its power on the high end. I personally likes the 350z better because its more balanced.
As for shiri lol, s2k accerate better downlow than 350z, and 350z is faster at high speeds? lol, right, u know soo much about both cars. Im not even in the mood to argue, so think what u will mr expert.
"With 4 posts, I don't expect you to know too much about either cars." and u are just soooo mad that i didnt praise the 350z like a god and express my own oppinion lol, its not that serious, its just a forum. u spent all that time, wasted all that space, flaming me to confirm something that ive already admited my self. That 350z's engine is a sports cars engine. Now i know where ur 322 posts come from lol. calm down. that was a totally useless post that picks at an argument thats already over. more like ure trying to show off ur knowlege about cars than adding anything useful to the argument. Post Wh*re
Last edited by yiaquemini; 05-10-2004 at 03:54 PM.
05-10-2004 | 03:58 PM
#131
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,981
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From: Los Gatos, CA
Originally posted by yiaquemini
lol, i respect totally what BDM replied to me what he says makes sense.
pulpz2 is right also about the powerbands of both cars, 350z is better low end and s2k sucks there, but gets its power on the high end. I personally likes the 350z better because its more balanced.
As for shiri lol, s2k accerate better downlow than 350z, and 350z is faster at high speeds? lol, right, u know soo much about both cars. Im not even in the mood to argue, so think what u will mr expert.
"With 4 posts, I don't expect you to know too much about either cars." and u are just soooo mad that i didnt praise the 350z like a god and express my own oppinion lol, its not that serious, its just a forum. u spent all that time, wasted all that space, flaming me to confirm something that ive already admited my self. That 350z's engine is a sports cars engine. Now i know where ur 322 posts come from lol. calm down. that was a totally useless post that picks at an argument thats already over. more like ure trying to show off ur knowlege about cars than adding anything useful to the argument. Post Wh*re
lol, i respect totally what BDM replied to me what he says makes sense.
pulpz2 is right also about the powerbands of both cars, 350z is better low end and s2k sucks there, but gets its power on the high end. I personally likes the 350z better because its more balanced.
As for shiri lol, s2k accerate better downlow than 350z, and 350z is faster at high speeds? lol, right, u know soo much about both cars. Im not even in the mood to argue, so think what u will mr expert.
"With 4 posts, I don't expect you to know too much about either cars." and u are just soooo mad that i didnt praise the 350z like a god and express my own oppinion lol, its not that serious, its just a forum. u spent all that time, wasted all that space, flaming me to confirm something that ive already admited my self. That 350z's engine is a sports cars engine. Now i know where ur 322 posts come from lol. calm down. that was a totally useless post that picks at an argument thats already over. more like ure trying to show off ur knowlege about cars than adding anything useful to the argument. Post Wh*re
Shiri does not own a 350Z as far as I know. I believe he owns a S2000. Why would he be mad that you didnt praise the Z? Shiri is just an enthusiast of most automobiles and enjoys the Z forum, which is why he is here.
The Z IIIIS faster at higher speeds, just as he says. The S2k is damn fast down low if it is launched properly and kept in its powerband. Unfortunatly it is not easy to launch an s2k like that and is hard on the car. But for the people who can do it, its quick!
So yeah, you shouldnt say things about other people when you have no clue about them.
05-10-2004 | 04:05 PM
#133
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,981
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From: Los Gatos, CA
There are hundreds of threads on what people are paying..
As for steep on this car? No.. The rates for the Z are cheaper then EVERY other car I have gotten quotes on. e36 m3, ev08, s2k, c5 vette, even a 97 240sx!
As for steep on this car? No.. The rates for the Z are cheaper then EVERY other car I have gotten quotes on. e36 m3, ev08, s2k, c5 vette, even a 97 240sx!
05-10-2004 | 04:10 PM
#134
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 114
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From: Washington DC
well, im sorry for calling shiri a post *****
but he still flamed me after Ive admited I was wrong. which was not necessary. And he didnt have to act like just cause I only posted 4 times, I dont know nething.
but i dont really care at this point. you can flame all you want, shiri. I could give a rats ****. Im not even going to bother posting back, Id rather post/read about things more constructive
I dont know if he owns a s2k, and it dosnt matter. I still say s2k has better acceleration and better power than 350z at high speeds. I dont think he owns a s2k either.
but he still flamed me after Ive admited I was wrong. which was not necessary. And he didnt have to act like just cause I only posted 4 times, I dont know nething.
but i dont really care at this point. you can flame all you want, shiri. I could give a rats ****. Im not even going to bother posting back, Id rather post/read about things more constructive
I dont know if he owns a s2k, and it dosnt matter. I still say s2k has better acceleration and better power than 350z at high speeds. I dont think he owns a s2k either.
Last edited by yiaquemini; 05-10-2004 at 04:25 PM.
