But if that's the case, why not buy a $20K Civic and spend the remaining $30K on mods? It's always a better value to buy the most car you can afford (whether it's Z vs. Vette or base Z vs. track Z) than to try to make up the difference with mods. You always end up losing going the mod route -- voided warranty, compromised reliability, and you'll never ever see your money back come resale/trade-in time.

It's a bit like trying to mod a 2.5L I-4 Altima to perform like a 3.5L V6 Altima. Worth the expense and trouble? Probably not. It'd be far wiser to have saved up for the V6 Altima. That said, I thoroughly enjoy my Z and modding it (well, thinking about it anyway). The way I see it, the Z is an inbetween car until I can save my pennies for a C6 Vette, R35 GT-R, Lotus Elise, or any number of other sports cars.

 

I can't say for sure what gives the illusion, but I suspect it is the upward flared front fenders looming in your forward view combined with the quiet and rock solid ride. It just seems like it is a big car. But when you pull .9 lateral G through a series of twisties, you know it isn't a big old lumbering car. It is at least as nimble as the Z, but it just doesn't make a big fuss about it.

 

Thanks. For years I said I wouldn't be caught dead driving the Plastic Pig, but the C6 has made a believer out of me.

 

In the extreme case of the civic or the altima you have a point. But consider my situation. Three years from now when the Z is paid for I can sell it for say 15k and put it with another 40k to get a Z06. Or I can keep it because its in good condition with low miles (it's not a daily driver) and mod it for 15k - suspension and FI. The total cost savings is 25k. I'm not saying the modded Z would out perform the Z06 but it would be pretty darn close considering I saved 25k - which would go along way on a new family vehicle.

Now I've put the money into a car that has a known history. The mods I would purchase would have been on the market for a few years. And even though the resale value doesn't necessarily recover all the cost of mods how is this any worse than the substantial depreciation of the Z06?

 

While you do make valid points, I don't think reliability with FI on a 350z could be an issue if you know what you're doing on tuning the motor correctly. Also, resale/trade-in time is out the window for those (like me) who plan on keeping their Z's for as long as possible. It just depends on what you want.

 

It seems a lot of people who have gone to competent tuners are still blowing their engines, even when running very conservative boost, A/F, and timing. Go check out the FI forum. It is very very tricky to run FI on a high compression engine, especially one with weak rods and pistons.

Of course if you're willing to *spend the money* to get high strength forged rods (and bolts), forged 8.5:1 pistons, and the right dual turbo kit, well then, you can build a killer. I looked at this carefully, and there's no reasonable way you're going to do this for under about $13,000.

Going this way makes sense if you plan to keep the car a very long time. Otherwise, it makes more sense to upgrade to something like the C6 Vette, which comes out of the box making 400 hp and 400 ft-lb of torque *before* you start with the hop up parts, and do it before the Z depreciates too much.

 

To me, at least, nothing "heavy" at all about my earlier response, whith, BTW, wasn't intended to bore anyone but YOU and you alone. In fact, the only reason I didn't PM you was simply not to give the impression by my silence that I somehow believed the 'vette was a "BAD" car. Likewise, my remarks here are aimed specifically at ZZtopp.

And you still haven't grasped my point about subjectivity, which is not that my opinion is more valuable, but that on such things as the "looks" of a car, ALL opinions are EQUALLY valuable. The ONLY reason I shared my opinion on the looks of the C5 & C6 v. the Z was because you implied I had stated the 'vette was ugly, which was simply not accurate.

Interesting that you would use the word "alleged" to refer to my doctorate; it's in jurisprudence (I'm a trial lawyer), but you might say my degree is in arguing, which I admit I enjoy enough to do so in my spare time when challenged, as here, by you. I'm paid pretty decent money to "bore" people. BTW, since you're obviously an expert at Don Rickles 1970s style insult humor, I'll go ahead and tell you I've already heard most of the good lawyer jokes already, i.e., "skid marks in front of the possum," etc. I find that most people have contempt for attorneys as an overall profession, until, that is, they really need one because they've been injured due to negligence; they need a divorce; or they want an estate or land transaction handled.

On the other hand, I'm sure no car expert and never have claimed to be on this forum. I'm just here to learn and share opinions. So out of curiousity, "share" something with me, since I answered your question: what do you do for a living out there in Vegas? PM me if you don't want to put it on the board.

 

Great posts in this thread, shopdog.

Anyhoo, I've almost always found Consumer Reports to be accurate in my own personal experience, but you are correct that they do not have specific definitions of a "serious" or "bad" problem in their surveys; rather, they ask the respondents what THEY considered a "serious" problem. For me, "serious" is anything whatsoever that requires a trip to the dealer, i.e., anything I can't fix myself, because I live so far out in the country.

Remember, however, that I qualified my "daily driver" assertion w/the requirement of lots of mileage. My wife, for example, has a 140 mile round trip commute to work each day. For those putting only 10k-15k miles/yr on a car (avg. miles) and live near a dealer, the 'vette may be fine as a daily driver. I didn't mean to imply the engines throw rods or the trannies lock up or anything like that.

 

My roommate has a C6, he got the first one in Big D. Here's the pics.
http://www.350zmotoring.com/forums/s...threadid=15681

 

I work for the mob.......I exterminate lawyers like the roaches they are.



Shopdog:

Great comparison. Among others, I agree strongly with two things: the Z factory suspension is terrible, and the seats are not well designed. My lats do not fit between the bolsters, and on long drives, this becomes very annoying. I would consider the 2006 Z06, but it still looks like I'm sticking with the 2005 AMV8.

 

Take some pics!

 

More of Don Rickles' finest, I see, circa 1974. BTW, most of my friends who claim to have friends w/in la cosa nostra claim ties to those in NJ, who would never allow a hit man to drive anything as sporty or ostentatious as a 'vette. Strictly American land barge, Lincoln or Cadillac.

 

Any resembelance to Elvis is purely coincidental???
Do you own a guitar??

 

I do own several guitars.

Elvis who???

 

Presley ! Where you been chile?? I know I am much older than you- ask your parents or someone their age. The king is dead but his memory lives on.

 

Dude, I was just joking. I'm a big fan of the King.

 

LOL!!

Gotcha, azzguy.

 

Consumer Reports: Bose Wave radio is highly recommended.
enough said
No highs, no lows, must be Bose

They WERE right about the (lack of) reliability of my VW

 

drove my 1st 400hp car today. I think I need the HANS device next time. If the C6 even faster than a Z8....the $15000 over the Z is every penny well spent.

 

Part of the pleasure in a car like the Z IS the fact that there are so many aftermarket opportunities and options that the level of performance that can be attained is really up to your checkbook! Personally, I went the route to by the Z and drop dollars on mods to build a car that is customized and unique to me rather than let the General decide for me what they think I should have (grin).