Why are we comparing a Z to a BRZ? They're not competitors.

 

Even if so they are catering to the same crowd, they are 2 doors and RWD so I don't see the issue. I'd argue the BRZ is the better car based on value, at $28-31k you can add $10k to that car and have a better car than the base Z.

 

Not with a warranty. That's really the only reason to buy a new car, for the warranty. I don't think anyone is cross shopping the Z and BRZ ( or GT86). People who have a Z budget would be much more likely to cross shop the Supra.

 

Some people buy new cars cause it's new, the warranty is a factor but most people that are car guys and will mod the car don't really care about the warranty so much. All 3 other the cars mentioned are for car enthusiasts and will not remain stock in most cases.
I for one know I don't like how the Supra fits me and the the BRZ/86 would totally be something I'd look at, cause it fits the bill if I'm looking for a 2 door RWD car.

 

98% of the cars that are bought are not bought by "car guys".

 

I don't buy new cars for the warranty. I buy them because I don't trust other people, especially when it comes to a sports car.

People have been cross shopping the Z with the twins and the Miata, not just the Supra (or Mustang or Camaro). I've actually seen several people that have been waiting for the new Z say fck it and buy them because they either got tired of waiting or realized that the car was overpriced by at least $5k.

 

Exactly, one does not stumble into a sports car, it's not just transportation it's a toy so 99% of buyers will be enthusiasts.

 

Funny enough the new twins and the Miata are as fast as the 350Z, so to say they are in a different market is unfair. They have similar attributes and serve the same purpose, just cause the new Z got a bump in power doesn't make it some magical car it's still derrived from the same chassis.

 

I worked at a Nissan dealer for 4 years, don't tell me who does and doesn't buy them. Almost every Z on our lot was an auto and most of the buyers were not car guys. They're bought by folks that either have no kids or as a second car. They're image cars. People shop by budget, not track lap times. Even if they did, the twins are not as fast as the Z anywhere, roadtrack or dragstrip. I looked up the Lightning Lap times, The NEW 2022 BRZ is 10 seconds slower than the old '06 350Z. I imagine the new Z will be even quicker when the times come out.

 

Tell me since you know so much, what is a 0-60 and 1/4 mile on a stock DE and then compare to a new MT twin.
If numbers didn't sell cars nobody would care about 0-60 but that sells cars, mind you not every state will be the same.
my slightly modded GTI feels about as fast as my tuned FBO DE, the twins and the GTI are neck and neck, it's basically a driver's race.

 

the 350 was a good entry level sports car for people just getting into them, with the new one it is priced out of range for many. like i said before, for that amount of money i would rather get something with a v8

 

I'm not going to spend any more time looking up performance stats. I already told you the new twins are 10 seconds slower on the Lightning Lap than a 2006 350Z. Deduce from that.

 

Not really sure where this is going and not sure why everyone is all up in arms about a $40k starting point.

$29,350 was the price for a 2006 350Z Enthusiast (arbitrarily chosen to compare to base new Z). In today's dollars (a mere 16 years hence), scarily, that's $42,090.03

And, to get a little more contemporary...

When I initially leased my '12 Z34N, it had a sticker on it that read $45,434.(!) Today, that figure is bloated out to $57,211.33 (2022 dollars). A new Z Performance model with a 10 year newer updated chassis/body/etc and a significant increase in overall performance (for a factory delivered mid-point car) at $49,990. is - IMO - not unreasonable. Not that I'm rushing out to buy one but in the overall scheme of things, don't see what the huge objection is vis a vis pricing.

Just trying to keep this real with regards to buying power in real dollars.

 

The issue is the price jump from the 370Z to the Z. MSRP on the last 370Z started at roughly $30k. Base price has stayed relatively the same since the 350Z launched (something like a $3-4k change over 17-18 years or so). It's not like this is a totally new Z with a new engine. It's a chassis that already existed, an engine that already existed, etc. For $40k I'd at LEAST expect to have a factory LSD, better brakes, and better tires. They priced the Z into MUCH better competition.

 

Mic I get your point but the 370Z sales suffered according to Nissan, whether it's economy or the bang for buck nobody knows, but the Z has always cost more than cars with similar performance numbers and attributes. Everyone I've heard talk about it says it's over priced and I agree, if you go off figures alone it's not too bad but considering it's an old platform I don't think it's justified anymore.
Now back to the point i was making:

 

I don't think this is that difficult to evaluate. I bought a Honda Passport last year, they're doing the same thing-
4 different trim/performance levels, everything from roof racks, alloy wheels and wireless charging pads for your cell phone, rear heated seats, etc, etc.

IIRC the delta between entry and top was just short of $10K on a $36K MSRP car. The magic is you can capture
potential buyers who want that vehicle at a broader sales price, same as when you order a New York Strip and
salad, mushrooms and baked-potatoe are priced Al-a-Cart. Gotta pay to play these daze...

 

LOL... So, are you suggesting that first set of stats is the new Z and the second set is for the new twins? I can promise you they're not. Nobody's tested the new Z yet, but 0-60 estimates are in the 4.2 to 4.5 second range. The new twins do it in 5.4 seconds, a full second slower. I have no idea what the stats you posted are from.

 

Opinions are free to have and honestly, they're all over the place. No issue with that.

Consider: As I've said many times over, the Z car (overall since 1970) has occupied a slot in the market that has never had it as the ultimate sports car. But in the "relatively affordable, mass market" GT category, it has reigned supreme. Great styling, six cylinders and manual trans throughout it's life, independent suspension at all four corners, relative comfort, and, arguably usable space.

It's that legacy that I thank Nissan for creating a new, improved Z car - however mid-MASS-market it is - instead of just dropping it altogether in view of our electric future. I'm happy to see the new "7th generation" car take its place as perhaps the final liquid fueled Z as ICEs ride off into the sunset.

Nope, not likely to buy one (or until the Nismo comes out) but nonetheless happy its here. And happily, I've been here and involved somehow, in all 7 generations.

From Gen 1....


...to Gen 7. Thanks, Nissan.


By the way, the "new" Z has been in the hands of tuners, racers, and all sorts of enthusiast persons for months now. Forsberg, Z Car Garage, et al all have plans. Just like it was in the 70s. Nissan delivers an imminently tunable and solid platform, Nismo and the aftermarket take care of the personalization. Other than Corvettes, BMWs and a few other marques, not many get the attention of the aftermarket like Zs do.

 

That is the 03 350z vs the 22 GR86, so like I said, they aren't that far apart. There are a lot of videos out showing the 23 Zs 0-60 average I've seen is in the 5sec range for them and the lowest was like 4.8sec for the auto.

 

So, if the '03 Z is quicker that the '22 BRZ, are you finally ready to admit that the much quicker '23 Z is NOT in the same performance category as the BRZ?