That's pretty much exactly what I was getting at. 99% of automotive systems aren't tunable past high/mid/low, balance/fade, amplifier gains (which technically aren't for tuning at all) and maybe a crossover adjustment if an aftermarket amp is present.

Philty keeps saying that speakers can be 'tuned' to sound good anywhere you put them. I agree with this 100% and I said that in the very beginning. However, for systems that lack tunability beyond the standard features, speaker placement is much more important.

Call it a hunch, but I'm guessing that if a person doesn't know what an "a-pillar" is he doesn't have a large degree of tunability in his system and is more then likely a beginner in the car audio world.

Anyways, here is another article from an independent car audio expert that backs up everything I have said: http://www.caraudiohelp.com/car_spea..._placement.htm

Here is a thread about a guy who asked if he should mount his tweeters in his A-pillars on an INSTALLER forum. The admin of the site told him it would be a terrirble idea:
http://www.the12volt.com/installbay/...nting+location

Yet another: http://www.the12volt.com/installbay/...nting+location

Here is a very in depth article from an expert on speaker placement:
http://www.the12volt.com/installbay/...nting+location

I honestly didn't read it all, as I'm not all that interested in this topic (I know you may not believe that, but it is true) but I did see one key point that throws off everything you say:

Only the most extreme installs would allow the tweeter and the mid to be close together in the a-pillar.

Spike, I know you don't agree with me, but there is considerable evidence available all over the internet to back up what I said. I may have not chosen the best words or the most elegent way to say it, but most professional installers frown upon mounting tweeters in the a-pillar when active processing isn't available. The vast majority frown upon reflecting mid/high sound waves before they reach the listener. I realize you are completely happy with your setup and were somewhat forced in to positioning, but that doesn't undo what everyone else in the world has done and experianced. Maybe you have a perfect sounding car, but the majority of experiances with tweeters without active processing is less then great.

 

Kevin, I would point out that the links you post are not “authorities.” For example, the link you posted to an audio forum only shows the debate we are having here. Some people say yes, others say no; but no one can offer substantial advice past their own opinion and limited personal experience. The other links offer very basic advice for amateur installers doing a “safe” installation.

My point is that you can do a sophisticated installation overcoming the limitations presented by a car interior. If kicks don’t work in the environment (and there would be various reasons for this), you have other options. In my case I wanted component speakers. Of course I also wanted terrific sound. Putting the midrange components in the door and balancing this position with the highs required a carefully positioned tweeter. The goal was staging the sound so it came from the front. After spending time testing different positions to achieve my goal, an A-Pillar placement for the tweeter was the best choice. This provides the best sound staging for my installation.

Not sure why you are getting this,

--Spike

 

There's nothing to debate, and I'm not going to get into a meaningless internet argument with an amateur...

I've said it several times what the three fundamental steps are to a great sounding system, regardless if you're using a factory source unit or aftermarket equipment... Again, A-Pillar tweeter placement can work VERY well with good execution and the right driver...

 

Philthy… I apologize for drawing you into this “debate.” I certainly understand why you have no interest participating in this silly discussion. I’ll say it again: Kevin and I sound like a couple of high-school girls fighting over nothing. It’s no wonder you have no desire to enter this discussion.

With that said, I do appreciate that you took time to post accurate information explaining the steps to a successful CES installation. In fact what you said is exactly what the Professional Installer helping me with my installation advised. You have earned respect.

--Spike

 

So a forum full of professional installers can't be considered 'authorities'? You've got to be kidding me.

It's funny to me that you consider the very well written technical essay from Stephen Kephart to be 'opinion' or 'limited personal experiance'. I found the part on locating the tweeter within a half wavelength of the associated mids crossover point to be very well backed with scientific proof and calculations.

Advanced theories always build off basic theories, so the basics are always a good place to start.

I've never doubted that your car sounds great, I think that is what you don't get. My comment was that generally the A-pillars a bad place to mount tweeters when active processing isn't available. I didn't say that it wouldn't work or that the car would catch on fire if you did it.

I guess I'm not getting it because you haven't convinced me of a single thing besides telling me your car sounds great and that the professional installer you are working with advised you to do this. I've asked you for a little proof beyond your own personal car and you've provided absolutely nothing except for your extremely biased opinion and a few personal shots at me. You haven't been able to provide a single ounce of factual or theoretical reference to back up your claims. Yet, I've provided link after link after link (some from experts, some not) that repeat my initial statement. I'm not sure what part of that you don't understand.

I'm not looking for an arguement, and I'm always open to learning. I will admit, I'm not a car audio expert, but I know enough to install a great system. I agree completely with your three fundamental steps to making a system sound great, but I believe you are oversimplifying it a bit, especially in this case as not all systems have the level of tuning required to fix speaker placement issues (and I don't count the 'balance' and 'fade' as being a tunable part of a stereo system). If you are so strong in you belief that you are correct post up a recipe for how you would make the tweeters sound good (ie adding a 3mS delay, crossing them over with a steep slope, etc.), or post a link to a site where I could learn more about the subject on my own time.

Would you agree with a revised version of your final statement saying: A-Pillar tweeter placement can work VERY well without active processing as long as there is good execution and the right driver? Afterall, that is the basis if this discussion (a-pillar tweeters with no active processing).

 

^^ The lady doth protest too much, methinks

 

Active, passive, physical, etc... there are a number of ways to go about tuning a system... You seem to want a dumb down cookie cutter response and the fact is there isn't one... Every car is different, every driver has different attributes (freq response, dispersion pattern, off axis response, etc...) - the only way to determine the best location is by trial and error, see step one - speaker placement...

 

That was PRICELESS: you told the OP that his questions was stupid, then you answered the (stupid) question incorrectly. Nice job, buddy.