Tweeter Placement
04-17-2008, 07:54 PM
#21
Very clean install!
Another question about imaging: I understand the reasoning behind deflecting passenger-side tweeter's sound off the windshield to get it aimed correctly at the driver, but if the tweet is mounted identically on the driver's side, won't it just deflect the sound to the passenger's ears? And since that is the case, wouldn't the driver get markedly less highs into his left ear compared to the right? How are you guys getting balanced imaging? Plus wouldn't this cause the left tweet's sound to bounce off the windshield, then again off the passenger window and end up in driver's right ear, further exacerbating the aforementioned imbalanced image?
Just trying to make sense from an acoustic standpoint since I know I am missing something very obvious here.
Another question about imaging: I understand the reasoning behind deflecting passenger-side tweeter's sound off the windshield to get it aimed correctly at the driver, but if the tweet is mounted identically on the driver's side, won't it just deflect the sound to the passenger's ears? And since that is the case, wouldn't the driver get markedly less highs into his left ear compared to the right? How are you guys getting balanced imaging? Plus wouldn't this cause the left tweet's sound to bounce off the windshield, then again off the passenger window and end up in driver's right ear, further exacerbating the aforementioned imbalanced image?
Just trying to make sense from an acoustic standpoint since I know I am missing something very obvious here.
04-18-2008, 12:07 PM
#23
New Member
If I remember correctly that was a point Bing also made on a different thread. As you mention, and Bing points out, a potential problem with this setup is the sound of the left and right tweeter cancelling each other.
I haven’t noticed this problem with the A-Pillar setup. I hear both left and right side distinctly from the driver seat or passenger seat. The part I like is that the sound comes from the front, but I am able to distinguish left from right. Staging the sound is very easy.
I didn’t like the Sail Panel position because it was too harsh and difficult to balance for both the driver and passenger seat.
--Spike
I haven’t noticed this problem with the A-Pillar setup. I hear both left and right side distinctly from the driver seat or passenger seat. The part I like is that the sound comes from the front, but I am able to distinguish left from right. Staging the sound is very easy.
I didn’t like the Sail Panel position because it was too harsh and difficult to balance for both the driver and passenger seat.
--Spike
Originally Posted by usmanasif
Very clean install!
Another question about imaging: I understand the reasoning behind deflecting passenger-side tweeter's sound off the windshield to get it aimed correctly at the driver, but if the tweet is mounted identically on the driver's side, won't it just deflect the sound to the passenger's ears? And since that is the case, wouldn't the driver get markedly less highs into his left ear compared to the right? How are you guys getting balanced imaging? Plus wouldn't this cause the left tweet's sound to bounce off the windshield, then again off the passenger window and end up in driver's right ear, further exacerbating the aforementioned imbalanced image?
Just trying to make sense from an acoustic standpoint since I know I am missing something very obvious here.
Another question about imaging: I understand the reasoning behind deflecting passenger-side tweeter's sound off the windshield to get it aimed correctly at the driver, but if the tweet is mounted identically on the driver's side, won't it just deflect the sound to the passenger's ears? And since that is the case, wouldn't the driver get markedly less highs into his left ear compared to the right? How are you guys getting balanced imaging? Plus wouldn't this cause the left tweet's sound to bounce off the windshield, then again off the passenger window and end up in driver's right ear, further exacerbating the aforementioned imbalanced image?
Just trying to make sense from an acoustic standpoint since I know I am missing something very obvious here.
04-18-2008, 12:17 PM
#24
Originally Posted by Spike100
If I remember correctly that was a point Bing also made on a different thread. As you mention, and Bing points out, a potential problem with this setup is the sound of the left and right tweeter canceling each other.
I haven’t noticed this problem with the A-Pillar setup. I hear both left and right side distinctly from the driver seat or passenger seat. The part I like is that the sound comes from the front, but I am able to distinguish left from right. Staging the sound is very easy.
I didn’t like the Sail Panel position because it was too harsh and difficult to balance for both the driver and passenger seat.
--Spike
I haven’t noticed this problem with the A-Pillar setup. I hear both left and right side distinctly from the driver seat or passenger seat. The part I like is that the sound comes from the front, but I am able to distinguish left from right. Staging the sound is very easy.
I didn’t like the Sail Panel position because it was too harsh and difficult to balance for both the driver and passenger seat.
--Spike
04-18-2008, 01:14 PM
#25
New Member
Originally Posted by cdoxp800
Another fix is to run one side out of phase. I am from the Old school car audio back in 1984. I competed in IASCA back then when it was more about the sound quality.
I would like to make a couple points that possibly answer usmanasif’s concern about deflecting sound.
I got the idea (deflecting sound) after attending an outdoor concert where the artists were inside a bandshell. I’m thinking we are outdoors and the music sounds great. Why? Of course, the roof and the back of the shell deflect sound through the open side and out towards the audience.
Then while attending a concert at Orchestra Hall, I notice that although the seats in the hall are in front of and around the stage, even the cheap seats on the side receive decent sound. Why? The hall is equipped with a bunch of deflection plates over and around the musicians.
That’s what gave me the idea for a car interior. Most would agree that a car interior is a difficult audio configuration, but certainly it is less complicated than producing decent sound for an outdoor concert or a large hall. Sound-deflection is a solution for any of these problematic situations.
--Spike
04-18-2008, 02:08 PM
#27
i say all the theory is good, but really, nothing will tell you the truth until you try it out in the car, when i did the last Z with the dash corner mounts, i tried out , with some double side tape, just angled with the dash as in this post, off axis facing each other, or more on axis at the corner, and i ended up with that set up cuase it provided me wit hthe best solid center image and overall toanlity...so...
different interiors, different equipment all works to make for a ton of variables
also, i still believe that unless you do time alignment, a kick panel mounted tweet will work better for center image, andt he staging in the Z is not bad at all, its hard to believe but it does work
A pilalr mount, will give less rainbowing of hte stage, but again, i think you whould do time alginment to get hte most out of it
b
different interiors, different equipment all works to make for a ton of variables
also, i still believe that unless you do time alignment, a kick panel mounted tweet will work better for center image, andt he staging in the Z is not bad at all, its hard to believe but it does work
A pilalr mount, will give less rainbowing of hte stage, but again, i think you whould do time alginment to get hte most out of it
b
04-18-2008, 02:33 PM
#28
New Member
Bing,
You gotta replace that keyboard… its keys are sticking like crazy.
Of course… just kidding.
The only reason I question my deflection setup/theory is that you obviously disapprove… and I value your advice above anything else.
--Spike
You gotta replace that keyboard… its keys are sticking like crazy.
Of course… just kidding.
The only reason I question my deflection setup/theory is that you obviously disapprove… and I value your advice above anything else.
--Spike
04-18-2008, 03:23 PM
#33
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Originally Posted by Spike100
^^ It pops out, but you want to remove the door panel to get at its wiring.
Just curious… How did it get cracked? I’ve never seen that before.
--Spike
Just curious… How did it get cracked? I’ve never seen that before.
--Spike
to be honest with i dont know is right a the top you can barely see it when the door is closed but i know is there
03-12-2009, 06:21 PM
#35
Registered User
Well first I started out by making my template. On the pillar itself I found a manufacturing line in the plastic.
Pic - 1
This was where I lined up the bottom of my template.
Pic – 2
I measured about ONE inch from the manufacturing line up. That is the bottom of the Tweeter it’s self.
Next I figured out the hole size for the tweeter to be rear mounted. I ended up with 1 ¼” (32mm) for my JL C5 Tweeter.
Once I knew that cut the hole in my template. I used a 1 1/8” (29mm) hole saw to make the first cut. From there I hand filed the rest. That took some time.
Well once I got the hole filed out to the edge of my template, I checked the fit. Once good, I gave it a good once over, then used some heat to smooth out any ruff spot’s. I just used a Grill lighter. Careful not to overdo it. Just get it warm. Then I ran my fingers around all the edges to smooth it out.
Pic – 3
From here I wrapped the front of the tweeter in Grill cloth and hot glued to the pillar on the back side.
End result.
By the way sintaxeror, I have really been enjoying watching your build. You have put allot of work into it, and it's looking good.
Link just in case others want to take a look.
https://my350z.com/forum/audio-builds/340419-sintaxeror-s-build-log-tons-of-pics-no-56k.html
Pic - 1
This was where I lined up the bottom of my template.
Pic – 2
I measured about ONE inch from the manufacturing line up. That is the bottom of the Tweeter it’s self.
Next I figured out the hole size for the tweeter to be rear mounted. I ended up with 1 ¼” (32mm) for my JL C5 Tweeter.
Once I knew that cut the hole in my template. I used a 1 1/8” (29mm) hole saw to make the first cut. From there I hand filed the rest. That took some time.
Well once I got the hole filed out to the edge of my template, I checked the fit. Once good, I gave it a good once over, then used some heat to smooth out any ruff spot’s. I just used a Grill lighter. Careful not to overdo it. Just get it warm. Then I ran my fingers around all the edges to smooth it out.
Pic – 3
From here I wrapped the front of the tweeter in Grill cloth and hot glued to the pillar on the back side.
End result.
By the way sintaxeror, I have really been enjoying watching your build. You have put allot of work into it, and it's looking good.
Link just in case others want to take a look.
https://my350z.com/forum/audio-builds/340419-sintaxeror-s-build-log-tons-of-pics-no-56k.html
seems like the driver sail option for aftermarket tweeters is crap, and unless you want to spend a lot of money, the a-pillar diy might do the trick, with bouncing sound off the windshield. with people who've done this, are you guys still happy?
i'm thinking if i ever go aftermarket, maybe i should go for non-component driver/tweeter option, so that i don't have to worry about finding a nice home for the tweeter. what do you think?
03-13-2011, 05:43 PM
#36
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ok im using infinity tweeters from the KAPPA 63.9I component system. The tweeter its self is 1 7/8" in diameter and 1" tall. I would love to use the factory mounting mold that allows to swivel the tweeter and thats 1 1/4" tall and 2 1/4" in diameter without mold flange.
Now for you guys that have done this pillar install do you know if i can use this swivel mold in this application when it comes to depth clearance and functionality?
Now for you guys that have done this pillar install do you know if i can use this swivel mold in this application when it comes to depth clearance and functionality?
03-14-2011, 05:10 PM
#37
New Member
ok im using infinity tweeters from the KAPPA 63.9I component system. The tweeter its self is 1 7/8" in diameter and 1" tall. I would love to use the factory mounting mold that allows to swivel the tweeter and thats 1 1/4" tall and 2 1/4" in diameter without mold flange.
Now for you guys that have done this pillar install do you know if i can use this swivel mold in this application when it comes to depth clearance and functionality?
Now for you guys that have done this pillar install do you know if i can use this swivel mold in this application when it comes to depth clearance and functionality?
The Infinity tweeters you ask about do not fit the Z's Sail Panel.
--Spike
03-15-2011, 06:43 AM
#38
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I just completed my system install and decided to put them in the a-pillar like previously shown. The Polk MM6501 tweeters fit in there with the swivel basket, so I can somewhat change where they are directed. They sound great up in the a-pillars.
More sanding,sanding & sanding! i going to test fit them tonight then cover them. not bab for my first try.