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New audio build in ZR

Old 04-17-2018, 10:06 AM
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Default New audio build in ZR

Hey all,

Picked up my 07 Grand Touring ZR over the weekend. Only driven it a few hundred km and put it back into storage as it snowed here yesterday. Hoping to have it as my DD by the end of the month, weather permitting.

I sold my s2000 back in February after 4 great years of ownership. I did the whole stereo in the car and it sounded phenomenal and looked stock. Link to my build thread should you be interested. It sounded crisp and clean, and hit quite hard even with the top down at highway speeds.

My Z already has an AVH-X5800BHS Pioneer double DIN installed, with working steering wheel controls. Haven't played with it much, but it's a really nice headunit nad has amazing online reviews, so a great start. The Bose speakers and sub leave a lot to be desired though. A lot. I haven't played with the HU settings yet, but I'm pretty sure that the Bose setup just isn't going to cut it for me. Since I plan on keeping the car a while, I think it makes sense to just take care of the stereo now.

I don't need shattering base, but I like to feel it. The sub being right behind me helps. I'd like to reuse this space as I won't lose any cargo room. I've done some searching and at this point, my idea is to use Dynamat to turn that stock area into a sealed enclosure. I've seen a few people do it with success. These people located the amp under the passenger seat from what I saw. I plan to do a similar setup as my old s2k, upgrade the front speakers with a nice set of components, ditch the rear speakers, run a 4 channel amp and bridge two channels to push the sub. Likely pick a nice shallow mount sub as I anticipate there won't be a lot of air space once I seal that area behind the stock sub.

I'm undecided on gear at the moment, suggestions welcome. Honestly, I likely won't be going as high end as my s2k build because I no longer have a connection to get the stuff at cost. I'm in need of components, a 4ch amp and a sub, along with RCA's and wiring. I plan to do it myself.

My understanding with the Bose system is I'll need to rip all of it out, pull the HU, run the wires to the amp, and run new speaker wires for the components.

Suggestions? Is there a better alternative I haven't seen? Don't have a set budget as I haven't started looking into gear yet. That said, I would think somewhere in the $500-700 CAD range should get me some decent components, an amp and sub along with wiring. Helps that the previous owner already dropped some decent money for a solid HU.

Thanks
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Old 04-17-2018, 11:51 AM
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Congrats on the ZR! It sounds like you have done a fair amount of research before posting which is a welcome change from a lot around here

If you have an aftermarket HU with the Bose speakers, then more than likely there is some type of module hidden behind the HU to convert the ohms. You are definitely on the right track. If you want to replace all the Bose speakers/amps, then you'll need to wire your new speakers directly to the speaker outputs of the aftermarket HU, or just disconnect those and use the RCA outputs from the Pioneer to the amp(s) you intend on installing.

As far as the factory sub location and trying to seal it with dynamat or some other insulating mat, I don't think it's going to sound the best. If you are able to seal it and make it air tight, there are still a lot of flimsy plastic pieces and thin metal bits back there that are going to vibrate and rattle. I would suggest building a small custom enclosure that will fit in the factory space. You could maybe get by with a free-air sub, but that will not sound as good. Just my

Good luck with the build!
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Old 04-17-2018, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Heel Til I Die View Post
As far as the factory sub location and trying to seal it with dynamat or some other insulating mat, I don't think it's going to sound the best. If you are able to seal it and make it air tight, there are still a lot of flimsy plastic pieces and thin metal bits back there that are going to vibrate and rattle. I would suggest building a small custom enclosure that will fit in the factory space. You could maybe get by with a free-air sub, but that will not sound as good. Just my
I couldn't have said this better. Dynamat and a free air sub in this space does NOT work. Not even a little. You need a sub enclosure. You can get a lot of the parts you need for an audio build at Zenclosures. As for speakers, go with the best you can afford, particularly on the fronts. Don't go cheap on the RCA cables either. Unshielded cables pick up a lot of noise when you run them to the rears. You could probably get away with a dedicated sub amp and subwoofer and just run the speakers off the HU amp, but if you want big sound, you're going to need a better place than under the passenger seat. There's a ton of space in the tower behind the seats, and you're going to have to remove all that trim anyway...

Finally, if sound dampening and quality audio is what you're after, then Dynamat EVERYTHING you can back there. Metal, plastic, everything. It makes a huge difference.
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Old 04-17-2018, 02:02 PM
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Thanks Heel. Been on enough forums to know to search, then look for help to fill in the blanks lol.

I'm actually surprised by how little info I found for sub solutions in a ZR. I don't want to go with a free air, I know that will just let me down. Sounds like I may need to look at reinforcing it. Haven't had a chance to take things apart and look, but from the pics I've seen it's a pretty tight space to work in. Instead of using Dynamat, would just laying fiberglass on the inside work? I haven't worked with it before, but I would think this would be an easy first application because there's no sanding involved, and I don't know if I'd even need to make a wood frame. Would be a PITA to work in, but it would be for Dynamat as well I would think, just not as messy.

I did find this box online, but if fiber glassing the inside gives the same result, I would probably save a fair bit of money.

My s2k had aftermarket amplified components up front already when I got it, I just got a different amp and added the sub. I haven't wired door speakers before, but I think I should be capable enough. My thought was RCA's from HU to amp for sub and speakers, then speaker wires from the amp (likely under passenger seat) to the doors.

Thanks for the comment!
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Old 04-17-2018, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by zakmartin View Post
I couldn't have said this better. Dynamat and a free air sub in this space does NOT work. Not even a little. You need a sub enclosure. You can get a lot of the parts you need for an audio build at Zenclosures. As for speakers, go with the best you can afford, particularly on the fronts. Don't go cheap on the RCA cables either. Unshielded cables pick up a lot of noise when you run them to the rears. You could probably get away with a dedicated sub amp and subwoofer and just run the speakers off the HU amp, but if you want big sound, you're going to need a better place than under the passenger seat. There's a ton of space in the tower behind the seats, and you're going to have to remove all that trim anyway...

Finally, if sound dampening and quality audio is what you're after, then Dynamat EVERYTHING you can back there. Metal, plastic, everything. It makes a huge difference.
I was planning on a regular sub and dynamatting the inside, not free air. That was what the person did on their project that I found online yesterday. But if that isn't a worthwhile option, I'll go a different route. Would sealing with fiberglass work with a normal sub? Don't plan on cheaping out, just not buying high end. I used Stinger RCA's in my s2k and was happy with them. As for components, I liked my Infiniti Kappa's might go that route again. Or something that tier. I'd rather for with a 4ch to give the speakers up front more juice. If I need a larger amp that won't fit, I can look at a different mounting spot. As for Dynamatting everything else, I probably won't bother tbh. I didn't in my s2k and was still happy with the SQ. I'm not an audiophile lol.

edit: Doing more reading this afternoon and found this box from SRO customs. Looks pretty slick and the price is reasonable.

Last edited by coop3422; 04-17-2018 at 02:51 PM.
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Old 04-18-2018, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by coop3422 View Post
Thanks Heel. Been on enough forums to know to search, then look for help to fill in the blanks lol.

I'm actually surprised by how little info I found for sub solutions in a ZR. I don't want to go with a free air, I know that will just let me down. Sounds like I may need to look at reinforcing it. Haven't had a chance to take things apart and look, but from the pics I've seen it's a pretty tight space to work in. Instead of using Dynamat, would just laying fiberglass on the inside work? I haven't worked with it before, but I would think this would be an easy first application because there's no sanding involved, and I don't know if I'd even need to make a wood frame. Would be a PITA to work in, but it would be for Dynamat as well I would think, just not as messy.

I did find this box online, but if fiber glassing the inside gives the same result, I would probably save a fair bit of money.

My s2k had aftermarket amplified components up front already when I got it, I just got a different amp and added the sub. I haven't wired door speakers before, but I think I should be capable enough. My thought was RCA's from HU to amp for sub and speakers, then speaker wires from the amp (likely under passenger seat) to the doors.

Thanks for the comment!
Glassing the inside is going to be tough without removing everything in order to do it right. I say this because you're going to have gravity working against you if you're trying to do the glass lay up upside down with everything still in the car. If it were me and I was removing everything in order to try and make a custom fiberglass enclosure, I would probably just make one out of MDF similar to the SRQ design. It would get pretty messy laying up the chopped mat or clot and laying the resin inside that confined space to be air tight with no leaks and getting out all the air bubbles between layers.

If you haven't worked with fiberglass in the past, this is probably not the first project that you want to tackle

I've recently gotten into fabricating things out of fiberglass, CF, kevlar, etc. and there is definitely an "art" to it and a little bit of a learning curve. With enough practice, you can really make some pretty nice stuff with professional looking results.
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Old 04-18-2018, 10:08 AM
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Thanks Heel, I was wondering if gravity would make it too difficult. Also tough to have a good idea of what I'm working with as the car is in storage, and I haven't actually seen what the compartment looks like aside from some online pictures. As it is, I think I'm leaning towards the SRQ box if they're willing to ship to Canada. Or using that principle and build my own downward firing box out of MDF.
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Old 04-18-2018, 11:00 AM
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Laying fiberglass is kind of like paper mache when you're sticking pieces of newspaper to whatever form you're using except with fiberglass (at least CSM) there are lots of "patches" of strands that you're sticking and then coating it with resin. It can get messy.
Fiberglass hates sharp curves and corners so you'll need to break up a lot of it to stick into the corners. On top of that, one layer of glass is not going to be enough and it's going to be a huge PITA to use your roller to get rid of the air bubbles. For the top of the enclosure, it would be especially difficult since I imagine it would keep peeling off unless you wanted to hold it there until it dried.

My vote would be for an enclosure made out of MDF and then still have a good layer of dynamat or something similar back there. Sounds like you're on the right track.

What size sub are you planning on running back there? For some reason, I've always been a fan of JL. I think their 10W0v3-4 would do the job leaving some money for other components as long as you're not trying to set off car alarms in the parking lot. If that's the case, you may want to go with something that can handle more power.
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Old 04-18-2018, 11:29 AM
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Makes sense. I've always wanted a fiber glass project, but since there's an alternative to having a sub taking up trunk space, I'd rather utilize the stock location. Appreciate your insight, sounds like MDF is the way to go.it'll cone come to whether they'll ship that box to Canada .If not, once I get it out of storage I'll tear it apart and start mocking something up .

As for sub, something shallow mount probably .Loved the JL I had in my s2k ,but it was pretty expensive .Probably look for something online in the $150 ish range.

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Old 04-18-2018, 04:15 PM
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Another thing to consider coop: If you fiberglass the inside of the subwoofer enclosure, you're going to have to work around your fuel pump access port. I'd go with something you can just slide in and out of that space. The prefab enclosure route is probably the best way to go, even if it seems expensive. The time and headache you save are worth the few hundred bucks. Trust me.

Also, just using Dynamat to close out the airways doesn't work on a sub (free air or otherwise). I know. I've tried.
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Old 04-19-2018, 09:04 AM
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Thanks zak, after helpful comments on here I've decided a box secured in that location is best. I email the company earlier this week to see if they'd ship to Canada. I'm down to spend a bit to save hassle. If not, I'll just build it myself as it shouldn't be too difficult. Might prefer some Dynamat to put some in that area to reduce some rattling.

Appreciate everyone's insight. Hoping to bring the car out of storage in a couple weeks and then will start ordering parts.
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Old 04-20-2018, 03:18 PM
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Getting some time to look into gear today. Hoping to get some insight from you guys. I notice some of the cheaper names I remember seeing nearly a decade ago are still in existence. Some of them even seem to have decent to good reviews.

Amp: Looking for a 4ch that can push at least 100RMS x2 plus 250RMS bridged.
Hifonics ZRX616.4
I've seen this brand for years, never tried them but reviews always seem good considering the price. Matches what I'm looking for power wise. Amazon.ca has it for <$200. Amazon.com has it for $99 USD.
Pioneer GM-D8604 Pioneer GM-D8604
A brand I trust, same brand as my HU (not that I care about that). $220 Amazon
Precision Power i520.4 Precision Power i520.4
Back in the day when I sold car audio, PPI was a high end brand, their gear was $$$. I'm assuming this is either a different brand, someone purchased it, or they came down stream quality wise. This would be the lowest that I think would work power wise, but it's also $135 CAD.
Precision Power BA1000.4 Precision Power BA1000.4
Precision Power ICE1000.4 Precision Power ICE1000.4
Rockford Fosgate R400-4D Rockford Fosgate R400-4D

That's about it for amps. Not sure how the PP and Hifonics actually are, has me leaning towards the Pioneer. The Rockford had great reviews and I read people said it tested higher than what was listed. I do have Amazon Prime, which is why I've been looking on there.

Components:
Rockford Fosgate R165-S R1 Prime Rockford Fosgate R165-S R1 Prime
Good reviews for the price. $113 Amazon, $180 crutch
Focal Performance Auditor RSE-165 Focal Performance Auditor RSE-165
Never had Focal before, but heard good things. $175 Amazon
Alpine SPS-610C Alpine SPS-610C
$150 Amazon, $180 crutch, on sale for $146 at visions
JBL GTO638 JBL GTO638
$170 Amazon
MTX Terminator65
$130 Crutchfield
JVC CS-DR600C
$130 Crutchfield
Kenwood KFC-P710PS
$170 Crutchfield
Hertz UNO 6.5" 75 Watts Component Speakers (K165)
Currently on sale for $78!
Hertz - Dieci 165mm 6.5" 2 Way Component System (DSK1653)
On sale for $148.
Pioneer A-Series 6.5" Component Speaker Package (6-3/4" Compatible) (TSA1606C)
On sale for $148.

I'm leaning towards the Rockford's here because there's a pretty good deal on Amazon for them.

Subs: Looking for a 10"
Pioneer TS-W261S4
$140 crutch, RMS matches the Pioneer amp, mounting depth and air space work with SRQ box.
JL Audio 10W0v3-4
$150 crutch. Good reviews, specs work, and I loved the shallow mount JL I had in my s2k. On sale at Visions for $130.
Rockford Fosgate R2D2-10 Prime R2 DVC 2 Ohm Rockford Fosgate R2D2-10 Prime R2 DVC 2 Ohm
$130 amazon

Think I'm leaning towards the JL for this.

So is I were to go with the Pioneer amp, Rockford components and JL sub, I'd be sitting around roughly $480. Factor in $200+ for the box (if SRQ ever emails me back), and another $100 form amp install kit and RCA's, I'm a little over budget at $780 CAD. Not bad though, and I'm sure I could shave some off by building the box myself. Sound deadening will add a bit as well, but this give me a clearer starting point at least.

Now, what do all of you think? As you can see, I was very productive at work today, lol. This took longer than expected, but it's a good start. Opinions on what's listed here, or gear I didn't list but falls within the prices. Usually I'm all for buying things used off kijiji, but car audio I'd rather buy new.

Thanks for your help.

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Old 04-23-2018, 10:28 AM
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Some random thoughts...

Amps - back when I was entering audio competitions (late 80s/early 90s) HiFonics were about the best you could get, they were kind of secret that only a few understood. Super clean amps with regulated power supplies that could easily double their power into lower ohm loads. Those original amps have reach cult status... they truly don't make 'em like that anymore. Everyone knew PPI and RF were good back then. As you have noted these days PPI has sold out and is now typical, crappy Chinese stuff. HiFonics also went downhill quality wise, but they do make massive power for the money. RF has been pretty steady, so no worries there. My experience says buy the biggest amp you can afford, since you can always turn down the gains and clean up the signal. You just have wade thru the power ratings and find what how much juice these things really put out. Search YouTube, there are some people out testing them with interesting results. Honestly there is not much to fuss over between amps these days, they are all pretty much the same. They are made in China using similar circuit boards just with lower spec components in the cheaper brands. For example do some research on NVX and you'll find they are a knock-off brand using the same boards as PPI (and many others) but under cutting the price by selling direct without a big marketing budget.

Subs I tend to stick with what was designed for the box you are using. If you going for a small sealed enclosure there are some companies that optimize for those conditions. For example Image Dynamics is an awesome sub which loves small boxes. I've read the Pioneer's are good, but never reviewed all the specs or heard them. I know JL's will perform in small sealed boxes really well, so you can't go wrong there. I've run Polk, MTX and Kicker in similar boxes before with good results too.

Box I had the SRQ in the factory location and it rattled like crazy even with a coat of Dynamat. So I would not recommend that location. I had a Polk MM 12" sub and 300 watts for reference at the time. Put something in the hatch - either under the strut tower, custom in the spare tire well or a corner fiberglass box.

Components: this one is tough because everyone likes a different "sound". I personally like they way Infinity's mids sound. Currently I'm running Infinity mids with JL tweeters. I also like they way Polk sounds. Never ran anything else really, but know people seem to love Hertz and Focal. I would try to find a local shop and give a listen if possible since its a very personal thing... especially with tweeters - one person's "harsh" is another person's "bright". For example I like smooth, soft silk dome tweeters and HATE harsh metal domes.
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Old 04-23-2018, 10:59 AM
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Old 04-24-2018, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by jhc View Post
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Minor detail

In this case I'd recommend a custom box, firing forward like the stock setup.

That is what currently have, but due to space limitations I could only get an 8" in there. Its not really optimal but I found it to be way better then using a bigger down firing sub. That small rear storage area / bulkhead is full of random pieces of metal (different thickness) plus snapped together hard plastic, thus I found it impossible to get rid of all the rattles drove me crazy.

I had an 8" in a corner enclosure in the hatch temporarily and it sounded much better (no rattles, plus "fuller" bass) which is I recommend that configuration... unless your topless.
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Old 04-24-2018, 10:27 AM
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Thanks guys. I brought the car out of storage last night and this morning spent a few quick minutes messing with the settings .I was able to get some decent bass out of it. Quality is still meh, but I didn't play with the face at all. Since I seem more limited than expected, I'm going to play with these a bit more and go from there .
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Old 04-25-2018, 09:38 PM
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Just a couple simple ideas you may not have considered. You might look at one of the slim underseat subwoofers, they’re simple plug and play, pretty cheap, very small, and do a good job at "fill in" bass. Wether it’s placed under the seat, or in stock sub area. I have 2 cars with the slim subs and they’re pretty impressive, totally gives you bass where there wasn’t any before, though nowhere near as full, powerful and musical as the custom built box under the strut brace with a 10”.
I recently heard a little 8” shallow mount sub in a custom box and wow, that was pretty amazing for its size, could fit your space easily, like .5 cubic feet.
Also, I don’t think I’d ditch the rear speakers. I find a good matching pair, or even upgraded, provide volume and good fill.
Recently I purchased some 6 3/4” Pioneer TS-D components for $100 on Amazon, they’re super clean, and the JBL GTO are similar in price and ratings.
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Old 04-30-2018, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Wet feet View Post
Just a couple simple ideas you may not have considered. You might look at one of the slim underseat subwoofers, they’re simple plug and play, pretty cheap, very small, and do a good job at "fill in" bass. Wether it’s placed under the seat, or in stock sub area. I have 2 cars with the slim subs and they’re pretty impressive, totally gives you bass where there wasn’t any before, though nowhere near as full, powerful and musical as the custom built box under the strut brace with a 10”.
I recently heard a little 8” shallow mount sub in a custom box and wow, that was pretty amazing for its size, could fit your space easily, like .5 cubic feet.
Also, I don’t think I’d ditch the rear speakers. I find a good matching pair, or even upgraded, provide volume and good fill.
Recently I purchased some 6 3/4” Pioneer TS-D components for $100 on Amazon, they’re super clean, and the JBL GTO are similar in price and ratings.
I looked into those under seat options when doing the system in my old s2k. I think I'd just be unhappy with that option to be honest. I played with the settings and got the Bose sounding not terrible. Bass isn't the problem actually, it's clarity of the speakers that's the bigger issue.

I was searching old threads and found one where someone built a wood enclosure that fit inside the stock location and fired up. A few people had similar setups and seemed to like it. I thought I bookmarked the thread, but apparently all I did was save the picture with the box and dimensions.



I'm not opposed to picking up some 6x9's for rear fill. Just seems like a bit of work and not sure I'd notice them much to be worthwhile. My s2k only had front components and a 10" in the trunk and sounded fantastic.
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