DBZCat

iTrader: (8)

Just wondering. Came across it, and WOW $$$$$$$$$$

what makes it so great and worth it??

BoostTed

SQ and lots of it

jreiter

iTrader: (6)

Keep in mind that lots of the super high-end models from many of the more off-the-shelf brands (such as Alpine) are actually manufactured by other speaker manufacturers who only make high end stuff. The cheaper manufacturers contract out their high-end speaker design to the high-end speaker makers.

I believe the Alpine F#1 Status stuff falls into this category. I believe the drivers are made by Scanspeak. They use the Scanspeak Revelator drivers. You might be able to save a chunk of money by getting a Scanspeak set and not paying for the Alpine F#1 Status name.

In the past, I believe Vifa used to make Alpine's high end stuff. And I think a long time ago Dynaudio used to make Alpine stuff.

All that being said, Alpine *does* have the manufacturer (whoever they might be at the time) tweak the settings a bit per Alpine's request. This means the Alpine set will sound a bit different. From what I've read, the Alpine set offers better off-axis response than a straight Scanspeak set. (Good off-axis driver response is always a good thing for a car install.)

GQ 350z

iTrader: (13)

There is a full line of Alpine F#1 products. Just like old school Sony with their Mobile ES line. I think the Alpine is a waste of money imo. Give me the Sony unit (cdx-c90) from years past, or even the Nakamichi/Denon and I'll be happy.

I think most of these units are for competition use--realistically in car audio its all in the install--locations, speaker choices, etc. Personally, I'm probably going to go with an 8 volt Eclipse unit.

Regards

ravi

jreiter

iTrader: (6)

Yeah, I still have my old Sony C910. That and the C90 were the last good Sony car headunits they made if you ask me. I'd say the Nak and Denon heads are in a different league, though. That's about the best stuff you'll get, quality-wise. Not many features, but fantastic quality.

As far as the Eclipse, I find their current generation of top-end units to be great. I don't care about the voltage out (I think 8 volts is unnecessary), but their features and sound quality are top notch. Their signal processing section (EQ, crossover, etc.) are also top-notch.

GQ 350z

iTrader: (13)

Nice to meet another fellow audio conniseur. Greetings, I'm Ravi

BoostTed

I wouldn mind an 8V output. I'm able to hear a difference between my last headunit and old school kenwood with a balanced 8volt and the one I have now.

jreiter

iTrader: (6)

Howdy BoostTed!

Now you're talking balanced, which is a whole other ball of wax. In balanced systems the output voltage matters even less, since a balanced system's only purpose is to cancel out noise... which is also the only purpose of high voltage outputs.

But anyway, the only benefit of high voltage outputs is that you can increase the output signal level at the source which effectively drops the noise floor by making the signal significantly louder than the noise being injected into the wires by a poor wiring run. This is only a problem if you run your signal cables next to noisy power wires and such. Definitely handy in situations where you simply cannot route signal and power wires away from each other for some reason.

Regardless, the only benefit high voltage outputs and balanced systems provide is to reduce the audible noise when noise is being injected into long signal cable runs. If you have a clean signal run, you won't need high voltage or balanced. (Doesn't hurt, of course, but probably isn't needed.) My system uses 4-volt outputs, and it's fantastic. Zero noise. We were just careful about where we ran signal vs where we ran power.

Did you say you are running a balanced system? Nice. Which equipment? I believe Zapco amps have balanced inputs (in some models), but of course you also have to buy their balanced transmitters since virtually no automotive source equipment has balanced outputs. Not sure of what other brands of equipment allow for balanced outs and ins.

GQ 350z

iTrader: (13)

Joe to keep it simple for the audio noobs, high voltage means = lower gain settings on your amps, which in turn means less distortion. Looks like you know even more technincal info than me =0 lol.


edit: Just wanted to add, I used to have the elemental e10a in my old car. Just wondering what your perspective is on the sub in your car. Is their a lot of cabin gain and sufficient amount of bass output?

I'm still unsure of what I will install...


ravi

BoostTed

yup im running zapco and their transmitters

RANDY350Z

I heard an F#1 system set up at a local audio shop and it did sound phenominal! I am an Alpine/ Eclipse enthusiast. and my past two cars have had Alpine full DVD, Signal processing? the works! In reality, I can't tell the difference in the sound ( I had SpX-177 and 7969 installed in my S2000 (Competion pieces) and I could not tell the difference! If you want the F#1 system, expect to shell out about 20000.00 + to get a good sound the way it was meant to. The F#1 is awsome, but I plan on installing an Eclipse AVN- 2454, E3308 MD changer (JDM), Eclipse 5 channel amp, Titanium 10" Sub, Line and Point source speakers, which will end up around 6000.00 when I get My ZR. F#1 is just to make a statement, that is it. Pioneer had ODR before their reference, and that ran around the same price tag. Price the F#1 out, equipment alone is around 15000.00 (for everthing needed for it to sound right.

jreiter

iTrader: (6)

To clarify a bit more:
Keeping your amp input gains low shouldn't reduce distortion unless there's something wrong with the amp. However, keeping the amp input gains low *does* help prevent the amplification of any noise that gets injected into the signal wires between the headunit and amp. (From nearby power wires, etc.) If you have a headunit with a high voltage (and thus "loud" or "strong") outputs, you can then crank up the headunit's ouput volume to compensate for the amp's low input gains.

But anyway, back to those eD subs. I'm very happy with the e10o so far! Excellent gain and SQ. The Z cabin is very small, so a single 10" sub is perfect in my mind. Any more than that and you're just showing off. With no EQing at all I was able to get virtually flat frequency response from the sub at 20-50 Hz. (That's where I low-pass it, so it starts to roll off after 50.) I high-pass my Dynaudios at 60 Hz, and with that combination, I'm able to get virtually flat response from 20-180 Hz with no EQ. Talk about a nice transition from sub to mids!

Anyway, I'm very happy so far. A single $235 eD sub and a set of $500 Dynaudio 240mkII components and I've got fantastic sound. There could be some improvement, of course, but I'll bet spending thousands more on my speakers wouldn't give me thousands of dollars of SQ improvement.

Ahsmo

iTrader: (13)

F1, I was talking to the Alpine dealer here and he said that to just be qualified to sell the F1 line he would have to go to california and take several courses from alpine on the eletronic involved.

One feature he did tell me about was the mic supplied by alpine...
When you first get the head unit or whatever, you hook up the mic in your car, let the head unit listen to the music. All the while, the information from that first listening is recorded onto a memory stick. Then you send it to alpine where they then tweek the settings for perfect sound quality or for SPL purposes.

I thought that was kind neat, but it would be like me to buy it and then hate they way it was set up...

jreiter

iTrader: (6)

Nah, I'm sure they'd tune to be as flat as possible, then you could go in and tweak it to your tastes. Everyone's tastes are different, so being able to personally tune your stereo is critical.

GQ 350z

iTrader: (13)

Yeah, actually the 5 volt and 8 volt eclipses now offer that 'memory stick input.' The models are CD5444, and CD8454 respectively. Both tune your setup for you via Eclipse's software--but I tend to prefer my own settings. The time alignment feature is to die for though.

ravi

mikeef

In home hi-fi; the higher end you go, the fewer tweaks you have (e.g. even tone control tends to be absent).

jreiter

iTrader: (6)

Yeah, I've always found that odd. I suppose the high end home audio equipment manufacturers expect you to tune your room and speaker placement, rather than tune the output of the sound. To be honest, this works quite well for us in our home audio system. But it never seems to work so well in a car.

GQ 350z

iTrader: (13)

Joe, do you have any pics at night/ or during the day of your 9835? I actually ended up buying the same unit.


ravi

jreiter

iTrader: (6)

No night pics (keep meaning to snap some), but I have a pic or two on my site here:
http://www.spintronic.com/gallery/vi...ame=350zstereo

Absolutely fantastic looking headunit. Not big and flashy like so many other goofy head units now days. It's amber lighting matches the Z's lighting perfectly at night. (I wanted something that matched reasonably well.) If I ever get around to figuring out how to rig my tripod inside the car at night, I'll take some nice, clear, long exposure night pics to show off all the lighting. But regardless, if you haven't installed it yet, you'll be very happy when you do. Not only does it look fantastic, but it functions wonderfully and has a fantastic signal processing section.

Dream2Reality

iTrader: (1)

All this talk of Denon's with 8v balanced preouts reminds me that I have a Rockford 8250 (Denon A1 in japan) for sale. Aluminum faceplate, amber alumination, burr brown op-amps, 8v balanced preouts that are the same as the zapco cables, 4v unbalanced preouts. AMAZING SQ, but I'm stepping down into an all in one unit instead of all the zapco processing. Looking for $300 (still has sounddomain warranty). If anyone is interested, email me at frankchiarello@yahoo.com.