Ive read that the 350's didnt fair to well at Topeka. Any chance next year? or are those pesky RX8's gonna mop us up again?

 

Last year's tire options favored the RX-8s -- shorter tires helps when you have low torque, and hurts when you have lots of torque.

Last year's national courses favored speed maintenance -- there weren't any places where you had to "stop and go" -- even in the Miata I ended up driving last year.

With better tire options this year (new Hoosiers, hopefully 710s in a better size for the Z), the Z has a definate shot this year.

-Glenn (Beat all RX-8s on Sunday at Packwood NT -- on 40+ run Hoosier A3S04s)

 

What do you mean by "shorter tires"? Lower profile?

 

Yes -- 245/35 R18 are significantly shorter than the stock tires, multiplying the torque we have by a significant amount.

The RX-8 is lacking torque, so a shorter sidewall helps them. Since the Z has a significant amount of torque, the shorter sidewall combined with a relatively narrow width simply makes it *HARDER* to get the power to the ground.

If you have 17 inch wheels, then there are options for 275 tires, and I'm not entirely certain what happened to the enthusiast Zs except that the courses certainly were more speed maintenance (Miata-style) courses instead of stop-and-go (Corvette-style) courses.

 

The Z handles like a dump truck compared to the RX8. I'm going put my money on the RX8s getting faster and the Z not so much. Here is why. Lets say a 710 comes out that is perfect for the 18" Z wheel 275/40/18 or something like that.That tire would also benefit the rx8.

I really think the Z has some problems which can't be fixed. The LSD is horrible, ICE mod on the brakes, and the weight.

They where pretty close last year but I expect to see that margin widen over the course of 2006

 

A tire size that would benefit the Z would KILL the RX-8. The perfect tire for the Z would be death for an engine lacking torque (ie. rotary, VTEC).

ICE mode on the brakes simply cuts off the power assist = direct braking. If you know what you're doing, then it's no problem.

Weight is an issue, but remember I BEAT THE RX-8s (Joe Goeke, G.H. Sharp) ON SUNDAY AT PACKWOOD ON A HANDLING COURSE. They had 710s in 245/35, I had (used) S04s in 275/35.

 

Good to hear that we might have a chance given Kuhmo steps up with some tires for us which I really think they will. A quick question though, What the hell is ICE mode?

 

Power assist is cut off. The easy way to know is that your brake pedal is suddenly very hard to push down.

I fully expect that there will be lots of "lemming-like" purchases of RX-8s for this year, which is really too bad. I'd like to see a few M3s and Zs mixing it up with the RX-8s.

Personally, I think that Jason pretty much had his RX-8 close to the limits of what can be done, so I don't think that they are going to be going *that* much faster.

 

When I did auto-x the Z it was setup right and nationally prepped. I found that ICE mode added a bit of unpredictablility into braking. The LSD on the Z is not putting good power down in turns. The car did not feel well balanced and was a chore to drive. I also beat some national level RX8 drivers, but there are so many factors to a win it's hard to figure out why it happened much less attribute it entirely to the car. I've driven a couple RX8s and I think they have a slight advantage of the Z on a national style auto-x course. Just my opinion. I still own a Z and would never trade it for an RX8.

 

Do you guys think adding some hub-centric spacers to the wheels will help with the handling? I wanted to add these spacers(25mm rear, 15mm front) to make the stock wheels a little more flush with the fenders, but have read that they could also help with handling as well.

 

not legal for stock class.

 

Max difference of 1/4" from the stock wheel offset, so those spacers would be too thick.

 

Ya, I was just asking in terms of performance. I race in SCCA Solo II in the street prepared class B.

 

I still believe the Z can do well Nationaly. Andy and I once again have the goal of proving that. Andy is a much better driver than I, he just has very off days sometimes, thus the results at Nationals. I didn't drive what I would consider well, and finished 10th, so, I'm confident the Z can trophy at Nationals, if not win.

We're still planning on running 710s (17") but may try out some Hoosiers if we think it'll help.

There's still plenty of development to be done, even on my car. We hope to polish off the development and get as much Wood as we can.

 

This year, rain and course design definitely played factors. In addition, tire availability -- both dry and wet -- tends to benefit the RX-8 more than the Z. I think that there were a lot of other factors as well, such as Jason putting together an absolutely awesome run on day two.

There are a lot of people who were drawn not only the the "Miata-ish" handling of the RX-8, but also to the $$$ and support that Mazda makes available. It doesn't necessarily mean that the RX-8 is the best, but it does mean that there are a lot more people are providing input, so there is a lot more setup data earlier.

I've still got quite a bit more development work to do on mine (RevUp engine), plus suspension. I'm looking forward to running against Chris and Andy at Topeka for at least a mid-to-high trophy position.

I also have a bit of "unfinished business" since I didn't get my Z until mid-season, and only was able to run at one National Tour (with not enough setup data for the new car and my driving style).

Jason may be glad that my wheels and tires were stolen on the way to Topeka...

 

You had the option to run BS at Nationals, you chickened out though...

 

I also had the opportunity to help a friend trophy.

That meant jumping into a totally unfamiliar car, on tires that I've never driven, in the rain. I wouldn't call that "chickening out" -- especially in my "rookie year."

(Oh, and in spite of a long slide on my only "dry" run -- I didn't finish last either)