Not sure if to post this here or on the brakes and suspension forum. Most people here that track their Z's a lot have BBK so here is goes...

I've done Thunderhill and Laguna Seca on the Z and the most life I've gotten out of a set of pads on an 06 Z with standard calipers and rotors was a full day. The best pads so far were the Porterfield R4 race pads but still only one day. I'm happy that these pads did not fade after a full day at laguna which was pretty nice considering the pads i tried before all faded halfway through a session.

My question is how much life can you get out of a set of pads with a front BBK with 13" stoptechs? Will they last about 2-3 trackdays if swapped out at the track? I know this is an expensive hobby but putting new pads on the car every trackday makes it even worse.

Thanks.

 

To answer your question correctly - It depends.

It depends on:
- How you drive the car
- What track you are at
- Weather (if your tires can stick better than you will wear your brakes faster)
- Brake Pads
- What tires you are running


That being said - you will get more life out of a BBK, since you have a larger rotor and more pad material. Just be warned, the pads come at a much higher price than your stock ones.
If I where you, if you can make the stock ones work for you - keep them. You can buy a lot of brake pads for the cost of a BBK. I would just add some cooling to the front rotors to keep from boiling the fluid.

 

yeah from a cost standpoint, the overall cost of the BBK could certainly buy you many track days

 

I suspect you will get at least 3 track days out of a front 13" BBK with race pads. I can get at least 6 days on my 14" front BBK with either Cobalt Spec VR or ST41 front pads, but the rotors are unbelievably heavy. I can get at least 3 days on the rear non-brembo OE + good race pads. On a financial standpoint, I figure I save about $700/year by going with a front and rear BBK (assuming ~12 track events per year and wear rate = 1/3 for OE vs. BBK). If f & r BBK costs about $3200, it'll take me 4.5 yrs to recoup the cost in pads alone. Accounting for rotor wear will increase your return on investment. Then, there is the benefit of knowing your brakes will be much more fade resistant.

Mistico, investing in a 13" front bbk is a no-brainer. The rear BBK is not quite so clear as a good investment, but I took the plunge anyway, and am waiting for my kit to arrive.

Can't wait to see you out there in '07. I think I got those konis dialed in. I should be able to keep up with you now...

 

Thanks guys.

The tracks would be Thurnderhill, Infineon, Buttonwillow and Lauguna seca. Maybe, Willow Springs and Reno fernley.

Right now I'm running Falken RT615 but plan to go to an R compound tire once I figure out how to transport the wheels to the track.

Best pads so far were the Porterfield R4 but will try the Raybestos ST41 or ST43 next.

I wonder if the bigger front rotors on the 06 gives it better heat capacity and i can swing it with the stock calipers. I'll most likely get a set of Stoptech slotted rotors for the front once these are gone. I already have braided lines and RBF600 fluid and bleed them before each event.

Thanks again.

 

First thing to get would be a front big brake kit.
Since you're not fading your R4's I'd look into PFC 97's. They will last forever and are very easy to modulate. Be aware that they will eat the paint off of your wheels if not cleaned up within a reasonable amt of time. The st41's might be too much for street tires.
Maybe we'll see you out there next year.

 

Thanks for the info on the PFC97 daveh. Unfortunately porterfiled will not cut PFC97's for the 06, they'll only do the 01 compound and they're $250 which is a lot more than the R4's.

As I said above, the 06 rotors a quite a bit bigger than previous years at 12.6 inches so they might hold up better. I'm going to try some different combos and see what happens.
I need to test them at thunderhill which a track i know better and can push the car harder. So far the rear dust boots started melting but besides that things look ok so if i can get away with stock brakes and just get some slotted rotors and good pads, i'll do that.

thanks again.

 

Turn off the VDC and I bet you won't have an issue with the brakes since the VDC uses the brakes a lot!

 

As you get faster through experience and the stickier tires you plan on going to, you will fade the stock system regardless of the pads. With the Stoptech BBK (fronts-only necessary for most drivers), you can expect 3 typical days of tracking give or take. The stock system can work for having fun and knowing when to back out of it, but as you go faster and get more traction for braking, you will outperform the ability of the stock system - even with aggressive pads.

See you out there sometime! What group(s) are you running with?

 

I wonder why they'll cut an 01 but not a 97 for you. Did you ask them for their recommendation? They carry most brands of pads.
I'd probably go with the PFC01 or raybestos st-43. If they charge you $250 and they last you 4 days, that's still cheaper than paying $100 for an R4 that lasts you one.. Carbotech and Cobolt offer some good options too. Basically you shouldn't mess around with a clubsport pad anymore because you have alreay exceeded their capabilities.
I still say to get front big brake kit though..

 

I'll add my recommendation for a BBK (or some used Brembos). Keep in mind that as you improve, a BBK will allow you to better modulate your brakes. That, combined with being a bigger heat sink and no more worries about fading your OEM brakes, should make the decision an easy one. It appears you are intent on tracking your Z- better brakes will enhance your experience!

 

I have faded the Brembos with aggressive pads in three 98% laps. Given the cost of the Brembos, I'd suck it up and go for a front BBK instead, IMHO.

 

Admittedly, I’m pretty slow on the race track…

But I’m surprised how many of you guy are reporting brake fade issues! I have a few questions for you:

What type of fade are you guys experiencing? Pad or fluid?
How modded are your cars? Running R-comps?
How diligently have you done your pad bed-in?

My pads last 20-30 session (20-25minutes) (Cobalt SpecVR for now). I run RA1 on Koni shocks, OEM Brembo brake setup.

I know a couple of instructors, some with tricked out Track Z, still running the OEM Brembo setup with little to no fade.

Are we braking right?

Also, I don’t think we should brush off melted dust boots simply as an annoying issue. The piston seal in there is seeing much higher temps and should be inspected if your boots are gone from the heat. When the Honda RnD team did the Thunderhill 25h, the Brembo guys where pretty worried of the temps the caliper reached. Because of these inner seals.

 

Slotted rotors are terrible for pad longevity!

Get a good plain rotor instead.

 

I also use the OEM Brembos and have been very pleased with them. At the end of most HPDEs or track days, there is a bit of fade and brake modulation gets tricky. Admittedly, most of our Colorado tracks are not extremely hard on brakes, but even at Big Willow, Buttonwillow and CA Speedway it hasn't been a big problem. Z is set up modestly, with Eibach/Konis and S-Tune sways (no significant engine mods) and only recently began testing R-compounds (Nitto NT01s}. Pads are Cobalt Friction's GT-Sport compound with Valvoline Synpower pushing 'em around.

Another factor to consider is experience: whether you're learning a new track or are still refining your braking technique, we tend to overuse our brakes in both instances. I've had students with small fires(!) or smoke coming from the wheelwells of their Zs after the morning sessions of our HPDEs. I've also witnessed reduced brake wear and heat on my own race cars after I've learned the line around a race track (paradoxically, the lap times came down with them).

 

From my experience, I'd agree with this. Two years ago I purchased some used Brembo rotors off the classifieds section of this board and had them cryo treated. The treatment really seemed to help the solid rotors hold up better since we all know that the wear limits are quite small.

 

I think you're not getting any fade because you have chosen the right pad for your application. How many thread have we seen with people complaining that their street pads (insert nismo, axxis ultimates, or hawk HPS's here) only lasting one day.

Having just rebuilt my brakes to install knockback springs, I can say that I'm in no way worried about my inner seals melting. My dust boots were toast but my inner seals were in great shape. I don't expect to EVER have to rebuild my stoptech's again.

ps. buy a big brake kit

 

With the front stoptechs + Cobalt Spec VR or Raybestos ST-41 + Motul RBF600, I have never experienced brake fade. Stock non-brembo's + stock pads gave me brake fade on the first day I ever tracked the car (I was as green as anyone could be). 3rd track day ever, I had my shiny new stoptechs with Axxis Ultimate pads that come with the brake kit. Even though the Axxis pads packaging stated "not for track use", I used them anyway, and ended up smearing the pad onto the rotors like butter over hot toast.

After that experience, I plunked down some heavy change for some Cobalt Spec VR's, and I've never experienced fade from overheated pads or boiled fluids since. I use the brake a bit less now too, so that helps. Furthermore, I've done consecutive sessions amounting to 40 minutes of almost continuous track time. I'm neither blazing fast nor a slug. My r-comps get greasy half way through most sessions, but I take laps 4 or 5 much slower, and then push them again in laps 6, 7, & 8. I love my brakes!

Daveh, do you think Mistico should get a bbk?

 

Ok, so do I get a BBK or not? bahahaha j/k

Thanks guys. All this info is very usefull.

Yes, I'll be tracking my Z a lot so the BBk upgrade is inevitable.

Mooddude, my Z is a base so no VDC.

When's the next thill day?

 

If you ever plan to go F/I, a BBK is a must.

I had a 13" front Stop Tech kit (and stock rear brakes for a while). These were okay when I was N/A. but the rear pads wore out very quickly, and I would still have to bleed them frequently even with Motul RBF600.

I now have the 14" Rotora kit front and rear, and the JWT twin turbo kit from VRT. When the pads are new, the brake feel and effectiveness of these brakes are terrific. As the pads wear, they are less effective. When the pads are worn more than 50%, you can feel the difference, and the pedal starts to get a bit soft. I am getting about a day and a half to 2 days of track time out of a set of front track pads, but rears are good for at least 4 or 5 track days. This is with about 400whp, so I am getting some good speed into corners at most tracks in the AZ and So Cal area (FIR, BW, CS and WS). Overall, I am very happy with these brakes and would recommend them highly.