mhoward1

We were looking at the same thing, but there was no bang or sudden noise like what you here when a rotor lets go. It may have been a hose or Caliper piston failure though.

Stack

You know... he seems to be one of (probably) more than a few amazing rides through that corner. Just check out these two (most of you should recognize the first one)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl2UUunlI2Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBiXLikp2SM&NR=1

mhoward1

Looking at the videos and the track map, the trap seems to be wide and deep at the end of the straight, but if you follow the corner and then slide out late the trap narrows significantly. There is also quite a bump mid to late corner just off track. So if you decided to go off there, decide early.

betamotorsports

iTrader: (1)

I've been reading some of the discussions of how the 350Z handled the wreck and it appears that the cage wasn't stressed much at all. Chris Childs (the guy who did the race prep) will be getting the car next week but from his and Jeff's (the driver) once over it looks like there is one dent on the roof and that's it. While the cage did reinforce the center section of the car, the majority of the accident force was handled by the 350Z chassis itself. Both doors still opened and closed after the wreck. I give a lot of credit to Nissan and their engineering staff.

mw9

iTrader: (51)

what type of racing is the T2 class

1M0RLAP

Great pics. Cage did it's job well.

mhoward1

It's a wheel to wheel show room stock class. The cars are stripped and Safety equipment is installed, but that's about it. (wink)

dmoffitt

iTrader: (4)

WOW...

z-u-later

iTrader: (43)

The driver mentioned brake failure . . . does anyone know, or read in one of the other forums, if he had Brembos? If T2 is stock, I assume he is not allowed to upgrade to a BBK. This may be important information for us who participate in HPDEs, etc.

racerbob4

iTrader: (8)

Touring 2 is a SCCA class with limited preperations rules, but different from Showroom Stock in that some cars can do more prep than others but there is an attempt to equalize them all. SCCA hasnt been doing a good job of that since they allowed turbo cars. The Z car is allowed up to 9 x 18 and 10 x 18 wheels, a larger front and rear sway bar, finned differential cooler, canister shocks, different springs front and rear. You cant strip out the interior, most of the plastic has to stay in as does the passenger seat, carpet and door glass unless you build the cage to protrude into the doors. You can see that in the wrecked car. You can add a racing seat if you want. You also need full seat belts, window net, fire extinguisher, etc. The touring rules also let you up-date or back-date the car. This means if you have a 2003 standard car you can add the track car front and rear Brembo brakes and also install all of the uprev 2006 + motor parts for a little more horsepower.

In showroom stock you have to leave everything in the car and you cant up-date. The preperation rules are very restricted but you need all the safety stuff.

Click on www.scca.com and click club racing and look under rules and regulations for the heading Touring. At the end of that section are specific rules for specific cars.

mhoward1

Considering how many T2 350Z cars there are, I haven't heard much on failures. If it is a brake failure, your probably a component that was either moved slightly (brake lines rubbing, ect), or such a rare instance that it hasn't been seen much if any at all before.

ke0ki2k

iTrader: (2)

i thought alot of T2 cars ran 18x10 RPF1's all the way around? since youre allowed up to 285mm tires all the way around.

racerbob4

iTrader: (8)

GCR page 581 states what you can do with the 350Z and its 9" fronts and 10" rears. Under Notes they also list other things you can do that dont come with the car. The rules also limit the size of tire you can put on. We use the Kumho 710 285/30 x 18" on all 4 corners. Its a great tire.

John

iTrader: (17)

This wasn't Ken's old car was it? Glad to hear the driver walked away...

dkmura

iTrader: (64)

This Z is still at M-O, parked up near the tech shed and covered by a tarp. I had a chance to inspect the car and was amazed to see how well the front end absorbed the impact. Cage did it's job well and protected the driver compartment. Couldn't see into the wheel wells to determine the condition of any brake components. Reassuring to know how well designed these cars are!

Eagle1

iTrader: (2)

I agree, John. People should really read his comments, and it applies equally to HPDE drivers who are not in a race environment wheel to wheel, because this was not a bump or jostle that led to an off, this was just zipping along and something went wrong. Fast drivers in fast cars in an HPDE environment will actually be encountering a lot of situations as fast or FASTER than in a wheel to wheel racing situation, because there won't be any traffic to speak of ...... just the driver, the car, the track, and the limits you push. When one gets to this level of driving, all the safety and skill issues of hard core racing should be present, or one should not do it.

Thank goodness he is ok, and kudos to him for preparing his car properly.

commasense

While I agree that you should study the track and runoff areas, and look for escape routes, I have to point out that it is not a good idea to try to turn once you're in the gravel. Keep the wheels straight unless you're going slowly and are clearly in control of the car.

This is one of the first things I learned, and it's one of the main things we teach students, right after "In a spin, both feet in." It's probably better to hit a wall head on than to try to steer at high speeds in the gravel. You're just asking to flip and roll.

I had a much less dramatic off right at that place back in 2006. I had been running for two days on Hoosier A03s, but had corded them, so I switched to my street tires for the third day. I knew I'd have to be slower and more careful on these tires, but in the first session I was driving with a student in the right seat, explaining the track to him, and after a warm up lap or two, the habits of the previous few days took over. I went into the turn too hot, braked too late, and ran right off into the kitty litter.

I probably wasn't going anywhere near as fast as the T2 car: my top speed on the back straight had been about 125 on the Hoosiers, and was 116 when I overran the RE040s. I only went about 40 feet off the track, hundreds of feet from the tire wall, but I knew not to try to steer once I was in the gravel. The tow truck pulled me straight out.

When I got back to the pit and removed the plastic undertray beneath the engine, there was about 30 pounds of gravel there and elsewhere under the body.

thekinn

iTrader: (18)

I was going to post this in the SpecZ thread after reading about 2 Z's with brake failure this weekend... but didn't want to derail the thread.

I'm not SpecZ, but I also experienced brake failure this weekend. Did some reading over the wekeend and seems like ABS Ice mode - or some hub issue causing a similar reaction. A guy named Ralph Provitz was on the T2 team with the Z that started this thread - his team determined a hub failure led to the brake failure in that case.

My brake pedal had pressure.. the car just didn't slow down. Thankfully I wasn't going as fast as some of my other laps due to a missed 3-4 shift at the beginning of the straight.

Stoptech ST-40/Hawk DTC-70 fronts, Brembo (OEM)/Performance Friction PFC01 rears.

Here's my video -

http://youtu.be/FWHnWVNDFsk

commasense

thekinn: I was going to compliment you on keeping your wheels straight and not trying to turn in the gravel, then I saw that the post immediately before yours was by me, saying never to turn when you've gone off in the gravel!

thekinn

iTrader: (18)

Yep. I've been to quite a few HPDE's, done some reading online, I guess listening to enough people repeat the same things helped me. If nothing else, I demonstrate how to go off safely.

I'm hoping to help pinpoint the cause of this type of brake failure though. I did hear some kind of strange noises just prior to the incident (in the full video) - maybe that would help point to a hub or something else. Does hub failure/damage have a distinct sound?