I just bought a set of cheap wheels for my track day on Sunday until my ADVANS come in. They should have been here by now.

To my suprise the wheels I bought are lugcentric . I don't think it would be a good idea to run a 185mph on lugcentric wheels. Can we get a vote on this?

 

on lug-centric, ESPECIALLY for track use!

 

Do you know where I can get 77mm > 66.1mm aluminum rings ASAP?

 

I don't understand this fear of lug centric wheels. I've run very very fast in many cars that use lug centric wheels and never had an issue. I did some of the restoration work on Goldenrod and it went 409 mph in 1965 on lug centric wheels. All wheels are held in place, 100%, by the wheel studs and wheel nuts.

 

what the heck are lug centric rims?

the center bore does not contact the hub at all? isn't that what the rings are for? to compensate for the aftermarket larger bore?

 

Correct. The wheel studs and nuts center the wheel on the hub.

 

I can see why hub centric is 'better' but that is still alot of contact and secure mounting even if it's only lug centric.

is there data to support the position that they are unsafe?

and BTW: all aftermarket rims I have had (volks, weds, rays, etc) are 'lug centric' requiring the use of adapter rings so I don't understand this thread.

 

^ He meant tracking it sans the adapter rings.

I wouldn't do it, just for peace of mind. Enough other things can go wrong on the track to worry about a wheel stud breaking somehow, even if incredibly unlikely.

 

I've looked and never found any. My initial thinking on the reason why is that hub centric wheels are still carrying ALL of the load on the wheel studs and wheel nut. There's basically no difference in how the entire hub is loaded between the two styles of wheels. The hub centric wheels have an advantage in that they are easier to install on the hub correctly and thus reduce the chance of vibration. With lug centric wheels there's a specific pattern to installation and torquing so that the wheel is centered.

I personally run lug centric (they are lug centric because of the spacers I run) Enkei RPF1s and have hit 150mph in Turns 1 and 2 on California Speedway's Roval course. No vibration, wheel breakage, stub breakage, or any other problems after 6 hours of track time. A good friend holds the F/GCC, F/PRO, G/PRO LSR speed records at 160 to 180mph in a lug centric wheeled Datsun 240Z.

 

i too dont understand the fear of this.....

the main thing i would say is get the first lug nut into place and ensure you are supporting the weight of the wheel...then when you put the cross lug nut on do the same thing and ensure the wheel pulls and they line up....

then so long as you torque all lug nuts down and all the lug nuts seat in the wheels angled holes your good to go.....

besides, if your worried buy hubcentric rings or have a local machine shop mill you some....
-j

 

I might worry about the cheap rims because maybe the backface is not super straight. that could easily cause stud failure.

 

+1...agree 100%

I lost the hub rings for my Volk TE37's many track days ago.....still use them, with no vibrations or issues. I would be more concerned, about insuring that the wheels you are using....you trust your life to at 150mph+. I have seen lesser wheels crack....and without even running off the track.

For inexpensive, but very good quality/safe track wheels, I like Enkei. For the ballers...go Volk TE37, CE28, or RE30.

 

That would go agaisnt what Rob at Robispec is using. Isn't he using Rota's?

 

My concern would be the fact that the wheels heat up and the lugs *can* start to allow some play.

On the other hand, hub-centric, the lug nuts simply are there to keep the wheel in place rather than have both tension and shear forces on the lugs. If your lugs are in good shape, you probably won't ever have any problems.

 

http://www.1010tires.com/hubrings.asp easy enough

 

FYI

http://www.splparts.com/main4/main/default.htm

SPL hub-centering rings

Hub-centering rings to fit 5Zigen wheels on Nissan hubs. These rings adapt the 73mm bore to match the 66mm diameter on the hub, to allow for proper load centering of the wheels on the hub for track and high performance use. Without hub-centering rings, the wheel studs will see additional tensile stress, which can lead to failure under high loads.

These rings will also fit many aftermarket wheels such as certain models from Volk, Enkei, Racing Hart, Konig and TSW wheels. We will not be able to confirm fitment for you on these wheels; please contact your wheel manufacturer to check that your wheels have a 73mm bore.

We custom CNC machine these rings out of billet T-6061 aluminum for proper load centering. Plastic rings distort under load and when exposed to high heat (from brakes) under track conditions.

 

This is a mistaken assumption that seems to flow all around the internet. Again, all of the wheel loads go through the wheel studs and the wheel nuts. There are no loads taken by the center hole in the wheel and the centering extension in the hub.

Shear forces are taken by the wheel/hub face interface through friction and through the wheel studs. Tension forces are taken by the wheel stud and wheel nuts. Compression forces are taken the wheel/hub interface.

 

Thanks for the info on the centering rings, after reading this thread i
started to get worried about my plastic rings for my 5zigens under track
conditions cracking or warping from heat-i know last track event my
rf center cap partially melted from the heat from the brakes-i need to
remember to remove them this time before i go.

I just called SPL and ordered the aluminum rings and paid 2nd day air to
get mine in time for this weekends track day.

Also saw some other items i am interested in as well....

 

Not sure what he uses, but I dont have to use what he uses. My car has the Enkei's and Volk, Phil's G35 is running custom CCW's. The Evo is running Volk

There are a lot of good quality, but reasonably priced wheels on the market. I just mentioned the ones I have had personal experience with.

This is a good discussion thought....great information sharing.

 

We can break down all the loads seen by the wheel/hub:

1. rotational acceleration/deceleration/torque of the wheel is a shear load on the wheel studs

2. side loads on the tire (from cornering) is a tensile (stretch) load on the wheel studs

3. vertical loads (ie. car's weight on that corner) would normally not be on the wheel studs if the wheel is hub-centric. If the wheel is not hub-centric, then this load gets taken on by the wheel studs as a shear force

OEMs would normally have a good safety factor for wheel studs, but adding on the vertical load, increased acceleration/deceleration and side loads from racing tires/brakes, and your safety factor shrinks. It is not a stretch to see that it would not be as safe when you are trail braking, cornering hard, and run over a curb (dramatic increase in vertical load).