So I was talking with a few instructors and other Z buddies of mine and we had this idea. I am looking to see what your thoughts are on this.

We are looking to start a new racing class and are wondering what the interest would be. What are your thoughts about a Spec350Z class? We are trying to gage what level interest may be out there to approach NASA or SCCA with.

The concept is simple...Just like SpecMiata/Spec944, but with the 350Z. We would only allow suspension, exhuast, N/A air intake and brake pad monifications. We would have a spec tire, minimum weight requirement and uniform safety requirements. We would work out the details of the year of the chassis/engine allowance, etc. so the field would be even and try to make it fairly inexpensive races series.

Soooo, what are your thougths? Is this worth the work involved to get this going? Please share your opinions, wants, visions, etc.

 

I think this is a great idea. I do however believe that you should bring the limitations on modifications and safety equipment down as low as possible to make it more accessible to everyone. If I'm going to field a 350Z in a class like this, it has to be street legal still as well. As basic a cage as possible, only minor weight reduction allowed, and the performance modifications you listed above I think would make this a very successful series.

I see that you're in SoCal and I'm in NorCal but please let me know if there's anything I can help do to help develop a plan and get started. I would love to be involved in something like this.

 

Sounds interesting, definitely interested, keep us updated!!!

 

Great idea. In the Northwest we have e30 Spec Class for conference racing. 25-30 cars show up for each race.

They even have several local and national sponsors for the class. Example, I sponsor 45 cars where I supply all the race number boards, class lettering and drivers names. About 150.00 value per car.

NASA has the Spec Focus class.

Can't see why not it would work for the Z.

They use the SCCA rule book, don't know the class, as the base for rules and they add on that is relevant to their own class. I can see you doing that with T2 rules than narrow it down on what you have to run for tires, max HP and weight, etc.

Don't scrimp on the safety requirements. Basic cage doesn't work unless it just TT.

 

The best spec series I have seen have been the one where all the brake and suspension setups were the same across the board, the only items allowed to be modified where the suspension alignment settings. Let the teams play and experiment with setup, but make all the components the same to really keep costs down and the field the same. This also brings in component sponsors into the picture to keep the cost down even more.

One of the issues with Spec M now is they have allowed too many loop holes. So there are people spending $10K on engine builds and no one else can compete unless they do the same.

 

Sounds like a great idea, but I don't think the cars are cheap enough yet. If you look at all the current spec series, all of them except one (that I can think of: FFC) start with a car that can be purchased for well under 10k.... AND they are cars that are very plentiful.

Of course, like any new spec series, it'll take time to grow and develop... so by the time you work out all the details, maybe the cars will be much more available and attractively priced

 

Ok, this is good. I like the info exchange and ideas. Please feel free to keep them coming as you think of them.

Marty, that is exactly what we have in mind. The tenative plan is to make this a like the Spec 944 class. No Horsepower increases, only allowing the engine's to breath better. As far as brakes, stock calipers and only a pad change is allowed. But we are thinking of a spec pad, too. On suspension, we would have a stock requirment, with a possible spring rate option and alignment allowances. We also want a minimum weight requirement for car & driver.

The Orteganator brings up an option of keeping cars street legal. We think that's a good idea and certainly an option. This would tie into the minimum weight idea so you can truly race your street car. But the cage is not something we, or any sanctioning race body, will compromise on. There is no room for that kind of thinking on a race track. I know the comment was "minimal cage," but that is where the breakdown in safety starts. But I do hear your intention and will consider all options.

Furthermore, if we see participation high, we are thinking of two classes. We can see where there is a more stock class and a more modified class. Not too modified, but more than the base class. That is an option is this takes off, but we are not even close to there yet.

We have lots of ideas and are sifting through what we think will appeal to the masses. Hence, my posting to ask about intrerest and input. Again, we are setting up rules that we think keep the cost to a minimum, safety at a maximum and really make this a fun, drivers class.

Spread the word so we can get more input.

 

Looking at the production numbers I think the volume it there for a good spec series:

2002 – 13,253
2003 – 36,728
2004 – 30,690
2005 - 32,780

If the 2003/2004 models drop another 2K or so that would make them a prime target. We are already seeing the number of 350Z's for track starting to jump up.

 

Yes... but look at the numbers for the Miata... 90 to 97 alone... 215,000+ cars

I'm just playing devils advocate here

 

Sorry, can't do it with a roll cage. The door bars and main hoop on a roll cage violate a number of DOT side impact regulations.

Having come from Spec Racer Ford there are a number of things to keep in mind:

1. How do you police engines? I can have built a stock looking and sounding VQ that makes 325 to 340hp and still breathes through the stock airbox. The cam will have the correct lift and duration the way SCCA currently measures such things and the CR will be dead on.

2. How would you police shocks? Any shock can be revalved.

3. How do you police transmissions? Nissan transmission internals are extremely interchangeable and it might be (theoretically) possible to mix and match gears from a truck to get a close ratio transmission with a direct drive 5th gear. Theoretically.

4. How do you police fuel and what are the fuel rules?

 

Then you won't be doing much wheel-to-wheel racing will ya?

I don't think he's talking about creating his own race sanctioning body... so that's not really his problem. How do you police any of those items in any spec series? (outside of purchasing a sealed motor like a few of the series require) Those contingencies should already be in place if someone like NASA or SCCA picks up on the class.

 

Yes and no. Someone has to go to the race sanctioning body with the new spec class proposal. The more thought put into the proposal and the more concrete information provided will improve its chances of approval. The folks that put together the Spec Miata and Spec E30 proposals for put a lot of work into it (including demonstration cars and race results) and had answers for almost all of the policing questions.

What the sanctioning body's board wants to see is someone (or a group of someones) willing to take the ball and run with it. There needs to be ownership and sponsorship (not a money sponsor, although that would be great) of the class. A guaranteed class proposal failure is to walk in and say, "We've got a good idea, you folks make it happen."

 

Good point!

 

I'll add some suggestions:

1. All safety (roll cage, fire system, window nets, seats, restraints) must comply with SCCA's Showroom Stock GCR rules.
2. Stripped interiors allowed except the stock dash must remain in the car. It can be modified for the roll cage, instrumentation, and side nets per the GCR requirments for Showroom Stock cars.
3. Engines are completely stock (including fuel injectors and exhaust manifolds) except for the following: CAI, ECU, exhaust system after the stock manifolds.
4. Any stock Nissan Z33 transmission allowed.
5. Any LSD allowed with 3:54 gearing.
6. Koni Sport shocks.
7. Stock springs (from any Nissan Z33 - mix and match).
8. Any anti-roll bar.
9. 255 width tires on 9" wide wheels, any diameter.
10. Any brake caliper and rotors factory fitted (not port or dealer) to the Z33.
11. Minimum weights without driver: 350Z - 3,050. 370Z - 3,250.
12. Nismo Z and Roadsters not allowed.

 

I knew it wouldn't take long to hear from Stack and Beta on this stuff.

John, you have some very valid concerns and those were all already on the list. Since you made a list, here are some of the things we already have in mind.

1. All safety (roll cage, fire system, window nets, seats, restraints) must comply with SCCA's Showroom Stock GCR rules. Very close, in fact, almost identical.
2. Stripped interiors allowed except the stock dash must remain in the car. It can be modified for the roll cage, instrumentation, and side nets per the GCR requirments for Showroom Stock cars. That one is a no brainer; that is exactly what we had in mind.
3. Engines are completely stock (including fuel injectors and exhaust manifolds) except for the following: CAI, ECU, exhaust system after the stock manifolds. Again, you hit the nail on the head. However, we are still a bit unclear on what to do about ECU's. We were thinking of a set ECU setting since the engines should all be stock/identical. Not sure on that one yet, but maybe that is an open option.
4. Any stock Nissan Z33 transmission allowed. We are on the same page there.
5. Any LSD allowed with 3:54 gearing. We want to limit which ones can be used.
6. Koni Sport shocks. A spec shock would be used. Not sure if it will be Koni or whomever else we may choose. We may look for some sponsorship on that one. It might help with cost.
7. Stock springs (from any Nissan Z33 - mix and match). See reply to shocks. A shock & spring pkg might be possible.
8. Any anti-roll bar. Agreed.
9. 255 width tires on 9" wide wheels, any diameter. We are wanting to use a spec wheel. We want to go with stock, but that is not in stone. We want to see if we can come up with some good options on this one.
10. Any brake caliper and rotors factory fitted (not port or dealer) to the Z33. Again, we are on the same page on that point.
11. Minimum weights without driver: 350Z - 3,050. 370Z - 3,250. Not sure what the minimum will be, but we want to accomodate both smaller and larger drivers. We have noticed that there are some guys in the Z that add some natural weight to the cars, so we want it to be open to all drivers. For right now, 370's are not being considered. The differences in the cars are too many to address right now and there are too few chassis to work with on the 370 right now. We can see a secondary class down the road if this works.
12. Nismo Z and Roadsters not allowed. Again, agreed on this one, too.

We also are considering:
1. A/C delete ok.
2. Thermostat change is allowed
3. Side mirror options

Now remember, this is in the planning stage and we are using the idea/structure of the 944 class as a guideline.

As for policing it, I think that was addressed. This is amateur racing for fun. If you need to cheat to win, (let's face it, those guys are out there), than there is no set of rules that will keep you from doing it. I think the Monkey Court will cast it's verdict is someone is walking away from the pack every lap of every race and taking the checker by a 10 sec. margin.

We want to approach this with a solid plan in place and we will build a spec car to be the example.

 

One thing that FFC Spec does is they have a weight to dyno chart for variances of HP and years. This does require an on site dyno, but NASA keeps one on site anyways.

 

Thanks Howard and Stacy...your input is both excellent and valid! It could be a point of concern.

However, I think if you take a good look at the numbers & values of these vehicles, you will find that there are a good amount of these cars out there and at prices that could make this work.

To reply to the "Advocate's" point, take a look at the production numbers for the Porsche 944. Now the Spec 944 series only uses 944's from 1983 to 1986 or any 924 with the 2.5 ltr. 4 cyl. They don't us the 944S or turbo's.
That made only about 40,000 possible cars.

Now the dollars are different but then again, that was also about 25 years ago. If you factor in inflation rates, etc. this is actually a cheaper deal. Again, if the changes allowed are simple and few this would be relatively inexpensive; with relatively being the operative word.

Now I have to agree, there are more Mazda's out there to choose from. However, they are not all able to be used. I agree their numbers are strong, but the spec 944, spec neon classes make it work...why couldn't we?

 

how would you solve the hr to de power difference?

 

1) Buy a higher horsepower version and tell the other guys to quite crying.
2) Make a funny face at them yell nee-ner, nee-ner, nee-ner at them.
3) Sneek an LS1 under the hood just to screw with them.
4) Or just use minimum weight and weight placement standards.

 

Might also want to look at the Spec boxster series that is becoming very popular over here in the west coast. Look especially at the rules because the allow very few modifications.

http://www.boxsterspecracing.org/

Since used boxsters are now ~$12,000 for a donor car (1997-1999 only), it makes sense that they would have a spec series on it. However minimum the allowable modifications are, I heard the build costs are ~ $20k-$25k, which brings the investment to $32-$37k. So, I imagine that a minimally prepared Z to full SCCA showroom stock safety standards would cost about the same or a little more.

Also, you'll have either limit the Z to a certain version because we got 287, 298, and 306hp versions, or impose added weight on the later models.

I'd be kind of interested, but the only reason why I say "kind of" is because I'd probably choose specbox over spec 350z's because specbox's are getting popular, and they are increasing in field size. Plus, I like the idea of a racer getting down to 2650lbs w/driver. As it is now, our HPDE programs have very few Z's. I may see 2 other Z's out of 100 cars at the various clubs here.