When someone new to performance driving asks you what mods they should do to go faster, how do you convince them that seat time will be a better means of going faster than buying shiny new parts for their car?

I used to just tell people "Seat-time you will crush bolt-on you." but I may have come up with a better analogy that just about everyone can relate to.

Typing

Most everyone operates a keyboard just as most people drive cars. However, I think everyone recognizes the difference between hunting and pecking (even quickly hunting and pecking as I am doing now) and someone, who actually knows how to type, machine-gunning off 100+ words per minute.

More to the point, I can't imagine any two-finger typist watching a real typist and thinking "If I had a keyboard like that, I could type 100 words per minute."

No. I think just about everyone knows that no keyboard on the planet will make someone who can't type as fast as someone who can. I think people also understand that one typing lesson won't get you up to speed either.


We hosted a Porsche club event today and this approach seemed to be well received among the new-to-the-track drivers.

This little epiphany, got me wondering how others deal with this recurring theme.

What are some of the approaches you guys use to "sell" seat time as a valuable means of going faster?

 

Years ago I ran into a young guy at Raceway Park who came with friends all the way from Albany area N.Y.S. That's like 4 hour drive with good traffic.
Anyway he brought his recently bought used 350z HR. 07? 08?
His friends came in another car. They were never there so came just to check this well known drag strip.

We didn't talk about our mods or horse power, the only thing he mentioned was that he just bought his very used slicks that were on the car. I don't think he knew much about his car cause it was used but just like my car I didn't notice any mods.

At Raceway Park they allow you to take ONLY 3 test & tune runs. He took his 3 runs without much hoopla & we shared/looked at our time slips. I noticed 3 runs in the very low 13's, one run was 13.0 something. I told him to post that time slip on this site, 350z.com. He didn't know about it but did end up doing that. I don't remember if that time put him in 3rd. place on the TOP 25 1/4 mile list but I'm sure he was in the top 5.... Today ??? 5?6?7??? don't remember his ID.

Anyway when they left they told me because of the distance & the higher cost of racing(3 runs) they will not come back......

It's obvious that he knew how to drive !!!! The MOST important mod....

 

Whew... near and dear to my heart. In the short time I've been posting on this forum, I've probably commented "Improve the software before the hardware" half a dozen times. That works out to my "monthly message."

Example: I posted this just a few days ago in response to a, shall we say, someone less than heeding to my suggestion that improving driver skills is THE best modification anyone can make.

And BTW, love your Typing example... might have to steal/paraphrase that in my next rant. Hahahaha.

The other example I state (in that same thread I think I said it): "The best modification one can make is to attend a driver's school because it's a LIFETIME modification that is transferable from car to car...at no additional cost." Pretty much, the skills you learn today will be with you to the grave... like that old expression about knowing how to ride a bike, "You may go years and years between riding a bicycle but once you get back on after years of being off, you don't forget how."

But you know, I get very tired of trying to convince people because I do sometimes think people feel that it comes off condescending, like I think I'm Mario Andretti or something. But I'm the first to admit that I am NOT Mario, never will be, and the only reason I'm telling people this is because I'm an example of someone who was only moderately good but I know I'm better than I was before going to school.

And speaking of driving school, here's another example I tell people about to show that it isn't all about the hardware.... At my first driving school, the first track activity our class experienced was a ride-around at Sonoma Raceway (nee Sears Point International Raceway, nee Infineon Raceway). Six students and a our instructor at the wheel (female.... not that that matters by the way but makes even more of a point) piled into a full size Ford VAN - as in like F150 passenger van - and we were given a high speed tour of the track.

Holy s**t..... you haven't been scared until you rode that ride. We're talking 8/10ths around the full 11 turns (then) at not-quite-racing-speeds-but-faster-than-a-freakin'-VAN-should-be and under braking forces that one rarely even experiences in a highway emergency lockup. But she was in full control and NARRATING about the various track segments and the fact that THAT was what we were there to learn.

Again, folks, FORD VAN, not a tricked out 350Z.

So, if anyone tries to convince me they're worth the modifications before the driver improvement, they're gonna have to take me out for a ride first and give me the confidence and skills that Kathy showed us!

Bottom line though: If people don't want to listen, hey, whatevs. I just know that I appreciate driving (any car) more with that all under my belt and know that anyone who DOES listen will appreciate it later on. I also don't expect anyone to thank me for suggesting good training (nor any good things they may take from any of my posts). But if it works, I would expect them to pass it on to others and like me, to my kids, who are also both driver's school trained. (Too many idiot drivers on the roads that could use basic driving skills LET ALONE high performance/defensive skills!)

OK, not sure that answers your question/comment about how to convince someone but that's why I say it so often.

 

I pretty much sold myself on seat time by using Harry's Lap Timer. I kept getting faster without changing any parts. Plus I'm cheap and in general don't want to mod the hell out of my car. It helps if there is a car with a similar HP/LBS you can compare times against. Plus once you get better and start passing FASTER cars, it really starts to sink in. At the last event I had no trouble getting around another Z... an '06 Rev-UP that had some exhaust work done. He couldn't hang with me and I was on crappier tires as well.

My best lap in my very first track session (Homestead 2.31 miles) was a 2.05 - now I'm running 1.58, I haven't changed anything except for brake pads/fluid.

 

Lap times, getting passed by stock miatas tends to drive home the point.

 

I like the typing analogy as it is easy to understand, but I agree with monztr's point of being outrun by an "inferior" car. I'm not sure there is a more effective way to send a wake up call to a car guy's ego.

That said, I have chosen the more common route of building the car for 2 reasons:

Firstly, I believe that high performance driving is a perishable skill that requires continuous repetition. Therefore, a commitment to refining and polishing the skill needs to be made. This means getting out to the track on a regular basis. One or two track days a year (although better than nothing) is not going to cut it.

Secondly, and more specific to myself, is the fact that I love to wrench on my own car. My garage is more accessible to me than the race track. Moreover, the commitment required to work on your own car, on your own time, in your own space, versus visiting the track regularly, is much smaller and requires less in terms of time invested.

Despite my reasons, I still believe seat time is the best investment someone, who is serious about wanting to extract the most performance out of their vehicle, can make.

 

I agree that being outrun by an "inferior" car can be a wake-up call. Better yet, having another driver beat someone in the same car leaves no doubt what's happening.

But different people respond differently to defeat and/or being proven wrong.

Some people may get discouraged and just assume, "Well, the guy in the inferior car that just beat me 'has it' and I obviously don't....so why bother".

As with any sport, there is talent involved. But, unlike many sports, people of almost any shape and size can learn to be good at this.

People don't expect to type 100 wpm after one typing lesson, nor should they expect to be on pace after a single driving school. I have seen a few students come through with really good talent and get discouraged when they see that they are off the pace of veteran drivers. I think the typing analogy brings the learning curve into perspective.

Even if a new driver with below-average talent starts at a venue with a bunch of aliens, the gap that driver experiences on day one will close in large chunks as they gain good experience. Even if that new driver is doomed to be off the pace forever, I believe seat time will get him/her closer to the pace than car parts would.

As for driving being a perishable skill, I think the foundation stays with drivers. They can and will loose the "edge" after time away from the track, but if they actually put in the time to become "proficient", I think they will always be considerably faster than if they never got seat time in the first place.

My daughter got a year's worth of seat time and then stopped altogether. after ~a year with no track time she was behind a school bus when the bus hit a dump truck. She was probably following to closely, but, when the bus unexpectedly and violently stopped right in front of her, she instantly took our Magnum RT off the road and back on the road in front of the dump truck before stopping and calling for help. "Thank God for Autocross" is what she captioned the picture of the bus/dump truck wreck she avoided....That was one of the very few things she gave us credit for during her teen-age years. (Her mom spent a year at the track too)

About six years ago , our former club president introduced me to rather elderly gentleman that was a former....can't remember the details but it amounted to "former nationally-known bad@$$ driver". For some reason Captain Kirk stuck in my head. (James may have been his name) Anyway, Our president asked him to demonstrate his skills, and I offered my car and rode along. This man was probably older than I think I will ever live to be. He drove my car like it owed him money and was ~1/2 a second off of my time after two runs on a course he had never seen. My understanding was that he had stopped competing years before I met him that day....

He wasn't as fast as he used to be, but he still had skills.

 

Your example of cutting down your lap time at Homestead shows just why knowledge of the course makes a huge difference. All else being equal I think it is the most important variable. Finding the rhythm of a course and experimenting with variables such as different lines, early, on time, or late apexes, ect. can greatly influence a lap time. The car is only a tool, how a person is able to manipulate that tool to achieve a certain outcome is called skill or experience. Seat time = skill/experience.

 

I usually show them when I drive their cars faster then they do. I tell them driving skills and knowledge of the courses will make you faster. If you're set on mods get a suspension and do bolt offs lol, less weight will let you use the power you already have

 

I agree with you Mike. A driver with a foundation will always be better off. In fact, I'm positive that a driver with a foundation who has been away from the track for a considerable amount of time will be able to rebound and get back up to speed quicker because he is able to tap into his prior experience.

 

IMO, you can't. Its a personal choice the driver will have to make. Its easier when dealing with someone who has played other sports before the racing bug bit them. They will be more willing to put in the work to learn the boring/mundane fundamentals. "You have to learn to dribble before you can master the ankle breaking crossover."

The problem is motorsports is one of the few sports you can win with your wallet. Doesn't matter if its grassroots or F1, deeper pockets will prevail 9 times out of 10. There are exceptions of course but in most cases you can mask your short comings with your wallet. The other thing is its way more fun playing "race car driver" with a car that looks, sounds and drives like a race car. Driving most stock cars can be pretty boring so I don't beat up on people who want to enhance their car. Sometimes you have no choice but to if you want to be competitive.

 

my 1 hot lap in my friends EVO was faster than his 15 sessions (3 events) when he first started tracking. He quickly got the whole "slick, aero, more power" theory out of his head quickly after that.

 

On top of this I'd like people to promote the value of s coach or instructor vs open track time. It's funny that most see the value of a coach for s pro sports player but see no value having someone in the right seat at a track day.

 

Yeah that is an eye opener. I've been passed by a Focus However when you start passing 'Vettes then you know your doing something right... or maybe the 'Vette driver is doing something wrong.

My brother (who is a better driver then me, but not a professional) rode along and then gave me some pointers. Just a slightly different line and some brake zone adjustments netted a 2 second improvement.

At most events I attend they are short on instructors so just out alone to have fun. However if anyone wants to ride along and give me pointers I welcome it. Personally my respect for the instructors is off the charts... you need serious ***** to get in a car with a complete novice and ask them to drive as fast as possible.

 

I passed a C7 on the NCM track driving....a stock miata. I'd say there was a bit of both but mostly the vette had no clue.

 

Someone with ZERO seat time would probably be DFL in class at solo nationals....even if Brian Peters handed over his winning STU-prepped 350Z to that driver. (And there is a LOT of money in that car)

Sure, money can cover up some talent gap, but money can not substitute for track experience. A driver has to at least get in the ballpark with his/her experience and skills before money and parts can push him/her onto the podium. (At least in Autocrossing)

 

There isn't nearly as much money in Brian's car as you may think....

 

Koni DA's are a lot by themselves.

Custom-built headers with integrated HFC's, cat-back, intake, tune, shock re-valve/sleeve, wheels, bushings....

I'm sure it's not as much as a BSP prep, but it's substantial.

Still, my point is that it's the driver, not the car....or the parts.

 

Aside from the shocks...all the items on there were budget friendly. There probably isn't 30% of the money in that car as the BSP car...if I'm honest.

 

See what I mean? For some a $20,000 budget is fairly reasonable while another person might struggle with a $10,000 budget in the same class. Even in spec class racing, cost is still a major factor. Your budget or "prep" is a major determinant. Sure, you have no chance at a Nationals event if you're a total amateur, noob, beginner..etc. But when comparing like for like, your budget for seat time(that ain't free), tires, instructor, engine, suspension, travel etc will decide how competitive you are. Even if you're really talented but don't have the budget for consistent track time to keep you razor sharp, you eventually get dull.