I was thinking the same thing! I always help my students figure this stuff out. This is what your in-car instructor is for. I have my students try a few different things to see what works best for them and what they're most comfortable with.

Emre

 

 

I like your image of the duck Stack

Are there still driving schools out there teaching to complete all your braking before the turn ? Please tell me wich ones so I won't waste my money with them !

 

Yes there are... but I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing. In the context of amature motorsports, especially non-competetive driving schools, it is the safest method. Try teaching the dynamics of trailbraking to someone who's never been on track before - it doesn't work, they will spin. From an organizer's perspective, trailbraking should not be taught to any student that is still in beginner or even intermediate groups.

There is one exception in my opinion: Automatics. I started in a '90 300zx AUTO non-turbo. To get the most, a left foot braking technique should be used. This led to natural trail braking... and it did get me in trouble a couple times I'm not ashamed to say.

Anyway - that's why we do this, to have fun and explore ways to get the most out of our cars. Trailbraking is a fundamental aspect of competitive driving, but it's gains are minimal in HDPE and open track situations.

-Stacy King
Triangle Z Club

 

Oh, ok. Some students are really beginner beginners then.
It makes sense to make they learn the proper line first and forget about trail braking if it means they will just spinnout everywhere.

Thanks for your reply.

 

my .02 - - use the brakes to slow down the car, downshifting is done to be in the proper gear to exit the turn.

 

I agree with Sz28r and Stacy King.

For track use:

1. In a current era car, the only way to slow down is to use the brakes. If your were racing a 1950s MG you may need the trans to slow down because early cars had insignificant brakes.

2. The only reason to down shift is to get the right torque band as you exit the turn. There is no reason at all to go from 4th to 3rd to 2nd. Its a waste of time. Go from 4th directly to 2nd.

3. Yes, you must heel & toe or blip to downshift. Do not try to learn this at the track. If you screw it up you have a chance of visiting the wall or having the car behind you run into you. This skill needs to be learned, practiced and perfected on the street by starting slowly with no one around you. Once you are comfortable doing it on the street, then carefully start to use it on the track.

4. Trail braking is not something to be taught to a beginner. They have way too many other issues to deal with. Braking in a straight line is just fine for starters. As your overall skill level builds up, you can start working on this one using a turn that has nothing to hit at its outside edge.

 

It just takes some getting used to. It’s good practice for the newbs to start off with matching each lower gear so they get a hang of H&T and blipping the throttle properly for the lower gear rpm match. But going down through the gears numerically before a corner is a waste. One thing you can do if you get confused with the gates (since everything is happening soo fast) you can just run through the gate while you are clutching in and rev matching for the corner. I still sometimes do this if it is a fast straight into a tight corner. Going from 5th to 2nd can get confusing at times LOL. There’s noting like putting it into 4th by accident and having NO power for the corner exit

Just make sure you can give the throttle a good push to climb the rpm enough to match when you let the clutch out for the selected gear. If you don’t get your foot over enough it may sometimes take 2 blips if the rpm had enough time to drop.

Once you get used to that it will become 2nd nature just like breathing

 

I'm just wondering how you guys in the 350Zs heel-toe?

In what little seat time I've had, the pedal placement seems way off in terms of throttle/brake proximity... And I 've got really wide feet!

-Stacy

 

Often, it's a question of the driver not braking hard enough. I found that under heavy braking, the Z's brake pedal had just the correct travel for bliping. It's the case with lots of cars I've driven.

That was a couple months back when I last drove a 350Z. Others might be able to give more details. But I remember not having any difficulty adjusting to the car.

 

It does seem a bit far from the brake. So i just use less of my foot on the brake pedal so i can roll my ankle enough to give a good push on the throttle.

Has anyone ever gone in too hot because your foot slipped off the brake and jammed on the throttle? Been there, done that, and it was a near grass experience

 

That's probably right... it wasn't my car, so I certainly wasn't pushing it to it's limit... plus it had the Stop Tech kit on it, so I wasn't using even half of it's braking potential... now if only someone would let me take one out for a whole event!

-Stacy

 

You are right, the brake/throttle position in the Z is not great. There are a few kits that you can add to the throttle to make it wider. I haven't bought one yet.

As I brake, I roll my ankle sideways and use the upper part of my foot to blip the throttle.

Foot slipping off the brake-----The last time you did a track day in the rain, did you wipe the water off the bottom of your shoes? I carry a few sheets of paper towels under or next to the seat to do that.

 

Sometimes i change my shoes in the car.

 

I heel-toe whenever I'm in the car... pedals could be a tad closer together IMO, but out of the box, I think it's a great setup.