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Sway Bar Database

Old 04-24-2005, 07:51 PM
  #1  
nbdyfcnsqnc
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Post Sway Bar Database

This is just compiled from various internet sources including this site, and may contain various errors and bad judgements due to marketing hype But I just wanted to compare these before I picked one out, and thought others might like to see.

Also, keep in mind that a 34% stiffer might be 134% as stiff or vice versa. Use your best judgement. I used the slash notation for "front / rear"--it's not fractional.

Let me know of any corrections, and I'll fix them. PM me and I'll be able to update faster.

Thanks to everyone below for making corrections and adding new information!

_____________________________________________________

350EVO
type: solid
diameter: 32 / 25mm [1]
stiffness: 11-33 / 25-53%
includes: bushings [3]
shape: rear bar is straight, without a curve to go around exhaust pipe
comment: de facto racing bars; best high-end value
installation: https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....ht=350EVO+Sway
_____________________________________________________

Cusco
type: solid
diameter: 35 / 22 mm
stiffness: 120-137 / 173%
comment: very good, but expensive
_____________________________________________________

Eibach
type: tube
diameter: 34 / 22 mm [2]
stiffness: 2-way / 3-way [4]
comment: [5]
_____________________________________________________

H&R
type: solid
size: 36 / 23 mm
comment: not out yet
_____________________________________________________

Hotchkis
type: tube
size: 35 / 24 mm
weight: 13.5 / 5.5 lb
stiffness: 9-32-63 / 54-92-146%; both 5-way [4]
includes: polyurethane bushings, brackets, silicone grease
comment: best value for the average street driver
installation: http://www.hotchkistuning.com/bin/in...ions/22413.pdf
_____________________________________________________

Mines
stiffness: 20 / 30%
comment: non-adjustable; 700 bucks!
_____________________________________________________

Nissan (OEM)
torsional rigidity: 1100 / 380 lbs
_____________________________________________________

NISMO
type: tube
diameter: 36 / 22 mm
wall thickness: 5 / 3.2 mm
stiffness: 18 / -1%
torsional rigidity: 1299 / 375 lbs
comment: overpriced
_____________________________________________________

Progress Group
type: solid
diameter: 33 / 22 mm
stiffness: 3-way / 2-way [4]
_____________________________________________________

Stillen
type: tube
diameter: ~35 / ~22 mm
stiffness: 7-70%; 5-way [4]
comment: all customers seem satisfied so far
_____________________________________________________

Tanabe
type: hollow
size: 36 / 22mm
links: http://www.tanabe-usa.com/stabilizers/default.asp, http://www.tanabe-usa.com/stabilizer...lizers_app.asp
_____________________________________________________

Whiteline Automotive Australia
type: solid
size: 32 / 20mm
stiffness: 2-way / 3-way [4]
comment: one U.S. distributor
_____________________________________________________

NOTES

[1] Prototype size listed for rear bar; corrected with production size
[2] Corrected measurements
[3] Possibly listed incorrectly as polyeurethane bushings. They are a yet unknown black substance
[4] "N-way" adjustable means that asymetrical pairs of holes can be used to achieve in-between adjustments
[5] I think I got mad at someone else's website and inadvertently blamed it on yours. Sorry.

Last edited by nbdyfcnsqnc; 09-22-2005 at 01:25 AM. Reason: updating info
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Old 04-24-2005, 09:09 PM
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I have the new Stillen Sways(red not gold) and a friend has the gold ones, both of ours have only three settings...I think that most people do not have the Stillens because they were rather expensive until recently
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Old 04-24-2005, 09:56 PM
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there is no hardware with Cusco because the stock stuff is reused
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Old 04-24-2005, 10:59 PM
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>> I have the new Stillen Sways(red not gold) and a friend has the gold ones, both of ours have only three settings...

Ah, yeah, I don't even know what "5-way" means which is why I put it in quotes.

I've seen red and gold pictures. Are there differences between them?


>> there is no hardware with Cusco because the stock stuff is reused

Good point. I think many people just choose to buy aftermarket polyurethane bushings?
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Old 04-25-2005, 06:40 AM
  #5  
jcpeyton
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Nice breakdown. This is such a great forum because people are willing to do this type of work and share the info with others.
I have had Stillen red (3 settings) for +/- 5K miles and like them a lot. Mine are set medium in front, stiffest in the rear.
After about 500 miles I installed Prothane bushings mainly because it just didn't seem right to reuse OEM. I noticed a subtle difference right away-a little tighter, a little more secure feeling. Maybe it was the urethane, maybe it was just the "newness" of the bushings--either way, I consider it $50 well spent.
Any info about the nismo adjustable links would be appreciated. Kinda pricey, and what is the gain?
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Old 04-25-2005, 07:47 AM
  #6  
EnthuZ
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Nice work on the list!

Both the Hotchkis & the Stillen are each 5-way as one side of the bar could be attached to it's link on say, hole #1, with the other side of the bar using hole #2. Therefore you will get "in between" settings.

The Nismo adjustable links would be most useful if you are corner-weighting your car, removing any pre-load.
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Old 04-25-2005, 07:59 AM
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del105
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Does anyone know the wall thickness of the front hotchkis bar?
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Old 04-25-2005, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by del105
Does anyone know the wall thickness of the front hotchkis bar?
Wall thickness ultimately does not make a high impact on final bar strength. That's the beauty of hollow bars. The most you can expect to see from my reasearch is about a 16% increase in stiffness from the same sized bar's, one hollow the other solid.

Really we should not be in the business of chasing the rainbow of which bar offer's higher numbers. If your driven to go for really high bar numbers, your not setting the car up right, set the car up via spring rate tuning first, then fine tune with sway bars. Sway bars are not ment to leverage large amount's of roll stiffness to overcome poor spring rate tuning, the are ment to fine tune at the limit balance/behavior on a already well sorted chassis. This of course has nothing to do with car setup's that are driven my class rules and regulation's that for instance forbid the use of a rear bar and or also prevent you from changing your springs.
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Old 04-25-2005, 09:02 AM
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This should be a sticky.
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Old 04-25-2005, 10:09 AM
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Some things to add to this thread

1. The 350EVO rear bar specs are incorrect. They are specs from a prototype that never made it into production. Production rear bars are 25mm in thickness. It's safe to say actual bar specs will meet or exceed the Hotchkis rear bar specs.

2. Some bars to add to the list, info can be hard to come I'll post what I have.

Progress Group
Front: 33mm solid 3 way adjustable
Rear: 22mm solid 2 way adjustable

H&R (not out yet, I just called them, here's what is known)
Front: 36mm solid
Rear: 23mm solid

Tanabe
TBA no info yet

Whiteline Automotive Australia (they do have one U.S. distributor)
Front: 32mm solid 2 way adjustment
Rear: 20mm solid 3 way adjustment

Mines Sway bars non adjustable
Front 20% stiffer rear 30% stiffer
$699.00(OUCH!)


Eibach specs from Eibach.com
Front: 34mm hollow 2 way adjustable
Rear 22mm hollow 3 way adjustable

Nismo specs in stifness vs oem stiffness
Front: +18%
Rear: -1%
Oem bars have a torsional regidity of 1100lbs/380lbs Nismo 1299lbs/375lbs
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Old 04-25-2005, 10:19 AM
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G3po
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Default 350EVO bars

Note about the 350EVOs which I've run for about a year, do a great job.

Note : they do "not" come with "polyurethane bushings". The bushings supplied are of some other stiff black compound that is not prone to squeeking as Urethane busings but still much stiffer than rubber. Maybe BJ @ 350EVO could state what the actual material is.
Also note , the rear bar also comes with new beefier bushing mounts.

Last edited by G3po; 04-25-2005 at 10:23 AM.
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Old 04-25-2005, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Gsedan35
Wall thickness ultimately does not make a high impact on final bar strength. That's the beauty of hollow bars. The most you can expect to see from my reasearch is about a 16% increase in stiffness from the same sized bar's, one hollow the other solid.

Really we should not be in the business of chasing the rainbow of which bar offer's higher numbers. If your driven to go for really high bar numbers, your not setting the car up right, set the car up via spring rate tuning first, then fine tune with sway bars. Sway bars are not ment to leverage large amount's of roll stiffness to overcome poor spring rate tuning, the are ment to fine tune at the limit balance/behavior on a already well sorted chassis. This of course has nothing to do with car setup's that are driven my class rules and regulation's that for instance forbid the use of a rear bar and or also prevent you from changing your springs.

We are trying to make a custom front bar for stock class auto-x and would like to know the wall thickness. Since as you said we cant run springs rear bar. A larger front bar is needed. The links on the hotchkis bar are almost completely verticle so a another hole is not going to work. A bigger thicker bar is the only option.
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Old 04-25-2005, 11:33 AM
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I have run both the hotchkis and the evos on my car and I will say that I do not believe the published numbers that hotchkis puts out. The evos are definately stiffer. I actually spoke with some hotchkis engineers that were at one of my track days and they said that wall thickness actually plays a part in overall stiffness. They also said that their sways are more for the street enthusiast than for the track (they will be happy to make set of competition sways if they can fill an order of 30). If you go on their site you will notice that the competition bar of the celica is solid and their street version is hollow. They are the same thickness but have a listing of 88% (hollow) and 123% (solid) stiffer than stock. I think the hotchkis makes a great set of sway bars and they are much lighter than the solid bars but I didn't feel that the front bar was much stiffer than my stock unit and didn't provide enough force for my track days on sticky r-compounds. They did balance the car out and dial out the understeer as advertised.

Last edited by daveh; 02-14-2007 at 04:12 PM.
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Old 05-05-2005, 09:41 PM
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I ran into a question today about sways & I think we should include information on what exhaust systems fit & cannot fit with particular sways.

I'll be the first...

Hotchkis: Fits with Fujitsubo Legalis-R, Borla TD, Nismo, HKS Hi-Power Duals, Injen

Thanks!

Last edited by GTNPU Z; 05-05-2005 at 10:21 PM.
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Old 06-03-2005, 12:22 PM
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Has anyone noticed that the 2004/2005 front Z bar is significantly stiffer than the 2003 stock bar? When you do the calculations, pretty much every aftermarket bar is softer or the same as the 2004/05 stock front bar.
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Old 06-03-2005, 12:46 PM
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I'll be the first...

Hotchkis: Fits with Fujitsubo Legalis-R, Borla TD, Nismo, HKS Hi-Power Duals, Injen
The Hotchkis bars also fit the Stillen exhaust.
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Old 06-04-2005, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by phoenixZ33
Has anyone noticed that the 2004/2005 front Z bar is significantly stiffer than the 2003 stock bar? When you do the calculations, pretty much every aftermarket bar is softer or the same as the 2004/05 stock front bar.

We've talked about this before. Remembering back to what you said before and what I said then, I do not see the info to support what your saying. Not wanting to be mean or anything, just want you to ramp up the quality of your claim. I can see a small increase related to thicker hollow wall's in the bar, but certainly not to support the claim that it can begin to approach aftermarket bars.


1. Mean diameter from 2003 to 2004/2005 front sway bars did not change and if it did, what did the diameter go to?

2. The 2004 bar's greater weight in comparison to a 2003 front bar does leave room for the likelyhood that is use's thicker wall's in it's hollow construction. But hollow sway bar's exist because they do not give up very much stiffness vs the same diameter of bar when they are solid. The most I could find when I could find any data at all looking at hollow bar's in the size range of the oem front bars hollow vs solid was a 16% gain going from hollow to solid.

3. Does the 2004/2005 bar's lever arm distance shorten? Most all aftermarket sway bars get their full range on stiffness increases from not only being thicker then the oem bar, but by being able to shorter their lever arm distance and exert much greater stiffnesses.


Don't get we wrong, I actually see reason's for Nissan to have increase front bar strength with the 2004.5 suspension revision. Rear spring rate went up quite a bit, while front spring rate stayed the same. It would make sense for Nissan to have countered with greater front bar stiffness. But, I have yet to see data to support a large increase in stiffness thinking.
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Old 06-15-2005, 09:39 AM
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The wall thickness on the 04 bar is thicker (4.9 vs 7.1), and the overall weight went up as well (10.5lbs vs 14.5lbs). I don't have the lever arm measurements in front of me, but I took them and can get them for you if needed. Based on the calculations I had done (by someone who knows what they're doing), it ended up being 12% stiffer using the original mounting hole, and with an extra hole drilled (0.8" forward the stock hole) it was up to 27% stiffer than the 03MY front bar. I don't know if those numbers have been corrected (double checked), but this thread indicates a difference as well:


https://my350z.com/forum/autocross-road/127661-ct-1-swaybar.html
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Old 07-10-2005, 03:55 PM
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any one run nismo sways ? Are they adjustable ?
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Old 07-10-2005, 04:14 PM
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One of the reasons I didn't buy the Nismo Anti-Sway Bar was it's lack of adjustment. The other was it's price. I bought Cusco bars. And I have a set of Hotchkis waiting in the wings......
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