Review: Tein Mono Flex (dd and performance impressions)
05-09-2007, 10:25 AM
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Review: Tein Mono Flex (dd and performance impressions)
I had these installed by Forged Performance approximately 600 miles ago on my 07 Grand Touring. Current set-up on tires/wheels is completely stock which means:
Front: RE050 245/40/18 on a 9" wheel
Rear: RE050 265/35/19 on a 10" wheel
Swaybars: stock
Drop: although the drop is adjustable by a significant range, mine is dropped 1" or a little more. I did not take before measurements as I made the purchase decision while the car was on the rack getting an exhaust installed. Height is adjustable independant of spring preload.
Alignment: I got the car aligned 5 days after the install. Naturally, toe and camber where out of spec. At the ride height I have, they are not adjustable to within spec (camber) although the toe is. As it stands, I'm running 1.7 negative camber in the front, and 2.2 neg in the back. Both of these are right at, or just outside the specification range for stock.
Tein info:
Springs: rated at 14kg/mm or 783 lb./in. both front and rear. They are linear, not progressive. These springs are approximately double the stiffness of the stock springs which are 314 front/427 rear assuming they're the same as the 06 model. As you can see, there is a significant shift in stiffness to the front end.
Dampers: 16 way adjustable. Compression/Rebound are not independant of each other. My set up is currently right in the middle at 8.
Price: expect to pay around $2k not including the install.
Driving impressions:
Daily Driving - Obviously much stiffer set-up. At low speeds (40 and less) some might consider it harsh over bumps, etc. It takes the edge off, but just the edge. At higher speeds it's suprisingly compliant. It's still very stiff but certainly doesn't beat you to death. With normal driving it's not likely you will feel any body roll at all, even with the stock sways.
Spirited Driving/Track - In my opinion, this is where you start getting a big grin on your face.
Under the limit - Point it somewhere and it goes there...and stays flat doing it. Turn in is noticeably improved, but is probably a combination of more agressive camber, etc. as well as the suspension itself.
At the limit - Some body roll (very small). Rear end stays planted noticeably more, not as easy to induce oversteer with the throttle...even in second gear. Don't expect to swing the tail out anymore unless you're well into the power-band. Previously you could do this even at lower rpm. At lower speeds (less than 60) you can still induce some oversteer. At higher speeds I believe there is a slight bias toward understeer.
Real life comparison:
I took the car to one of my favorite back road curves.
Previously for me, this was a 80-85 mph curve tops. Not necessarily the limit of traction, but limit of comfort. The car did not feel stable enough to push faster.
Now, it's a 90-95 mph curve and the limit is traction/tires as opposed to "comfort". Suspension feels very stable at that speed. The tires however, begin to roll to the sidewalls (that you can feel). Even so, the result is a 4 wheel drift that feels very controllable. I actually tightened my line on this curve to get at this point. Easily correctable by opening the line slightly. Keep in mind this is under WOT in 3rd gear after the apex. Also important to note that this curve is very smooth...no bumps, etc.
At the track, I could concievably seeing increasing the dampening settings, but I would be hesitant for street driving. Not every road and/or track is smooth. I believe increasing it stiffer could possibly induce some skipping over bumps. No way to tell without testing, but it feels like it's getting close at the middle setting.
Overall: Well worth the investment if you like the twisties. You're going to pay some in comfort, but not disagreeable unless you drive at low speed all the time in the city. For myself, it's still worth it even with that. Very trackable suspension.
Any questions let me know!
John
Front: RE050 245/40/18 on a 9" wheel
Rear: RE050 265/35/19 on a 10" wheel
Swaybars: stock
Drop: although the drop is adjustable by a significant range, mine is dropped 1" or a little more. I did not take before measurements as I made the purchase decision while the car was on the rack getting an exhaust installed. Height is adjustable independant of spring preload.
Alignment: I got the car aligned 5 days after the install. Naturally, toe and camber where out of spec. At the ride height I have, they are not adjustable to within spec (camber) although the toe is. As it stands, I'm running 1.7 negative camber in the front, and 2.2 neg in the back. Both of these are right at, or just outside the specification range for stock.
Tein info:
Springs: rated at 14kg/mm or 783 lb./in. both front and rear. They are linear, not progressive. These springs are approximately double the stiffness of the stock springs which are 314 front/427 rear assuming they're the same as the 06 model. As you can see, there is a significant shift in stiffness to the front end.
Dampers: 16 way adjustable. Compression/Rebound are not independant of each other. My set up is currently right in the middle at 8.
Price: expect to pay around $2k not including the install.
Driving impressions:
Daily Driving - Obviously much stiffer set-up. At low speeds (40 and less) some might consider it harsh over bumps, etc. It takes the edge off, but just the edge. At higher speeds it's suprisingly compliant. It's still very stiff but certainly doesn't beat you to death. With normal driving it's not likely you will feel any body roll at all, even with the stock sways.
Spirited Driving/Track - In my opinion, this is where you start getting a big grin on your face.
Under the limit - Point it somewhere and it goes there...and stays flat doing it. Turn in is noticeably improved, but is probably a combination of more agressive camber, etc. as well as the suspension itself.
At the limit - Some body roll (very small). Rear end stays planted noticeably more, not as easy to induce oversteer with the throttle...even in second gear. Don't expect to swing the tail out anymore unless you're well into the power-band. Previously you could do this even at lower rpm. At lower speeds (less than 60) you can still induce some oversteer. At higher speeds I believe there is a slight bias toward understeer.
Real life comparison:
I took the car to one of my favorite back road curves.
Previously for me, this was a 80-85 mph curve tops. Not necessarily the limit of traction, but limit of comfort. The car did not feel stable enough to push faster.
Now, it's a 90-95 mph curve and the limit is traction/tires as opposed to "comfort". Suspension feels very stable at that speed. The tires however, begin to roll to the sidewalls (that you can feel). Even so, the result is a 4 wheel drift that feels very controllable. I actually tightened my line on this curve to get at this point. Easily correctable by opening the line slightly. Keep in mind this is under WOT in 3rd gear after the apex. Also important to note that this curve is very smooth...no bumps, etc.
At the track, I could concievably seeing increasing the dampening settings, but I would be hesitant for street driving. Not every road and/or track is smooth. I believe increasing it stiffer could possibly induce some skipping over bumps. No way to tell without testing, but it feels like it's getting close at the middle setting.
Overall: Well worth the investment if you like the twisties. You're going to pay some in comfort, but not disagreeable unless you drive at low speed all the time in the city. For myself, it's still worth it even with that. Very trackable suspension.
Any questions let me know!
John
05-09-2007, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by SilverJDMCoupe
Extremely professional and descriptive review! From what you experienced, do you think Anti-Sways can possible improve your handling?
Off the track.. I'm not so sure. To some extent, wheels on opposing sides of the car NEED to be able to move independant of each other. If they could not, you can lose traction on one side when going over things like camber changes in the road. Example that most are familiar with .. "Tail of the Dragon". Almost all of the main part of the dragon have very tight turns, there are also some that are banked. That banking is great in that it allows you to carry more speed.. BUT.. you have another turn coming up very quickly after... which turns the other way and is also banked. Because of the short distance between the turns, and the banking on each you have a crest at the midpoint between the turns. In some cases that crest is quite dramatic. I personally felt the corners of my car unweighting across some of those areas... and that was with stock suspension. It's not a very comforting feeling to feel like you only have two wheels making good contact when you have a near hair-pin turn coming up.
All that being said, it's impossible to know without actually testing it... and in reality those kinds of "crests" are pretty rare unless you're on a very tight road like the dragon.
Hotchkis has adjustable sways, and IMO are one of the best on the market for the Z. I'm NOT sure whether on their softest settings they are equal, less than, or stiffer than stock although I believe that information is available somewhere. Whether the extra stiffness would improve handling or not, the adjustable sways give you the opportunity of fine tuning oversteer/understeer so it could be considered an improvement for that alone.
Personally I haven't made a decision to get sways yet, but I'm leaning toward getting them. When/if I do.. they will be Hotchkis adjustables.
John
05-11-2007, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Gsedan35
Nice to see a honest review that hit's the point's many don't dare venture on. If your paying off a debt to a sponser or promoting your own business goals, I can't tell. Thank you, very refreshing.
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05-12-2007, 07:02 PM
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drop 0.8" for Tein!!
Originally Posted by Mansmind
I had these installed by Forged Performance approximately 600 miles ago on my 07 Grand Touring. Current set-up on tires/wheels is completely stock which means:
Front: RE050 245/40/18 on a 9" wheel
Rear: RE050 265/35/19 on a 10" wheel
Swaybars: stock
Drop: although the drop is adjustable by a significant range, mine is dropped 1" or a little more. I did not take before measurements as I made the purchase decision while the car was on the rack getting an exhaust installed. Height is adjustable independant of spring preload.
Alignment: I got the car aligned 5 days after the install. Naturally, toe and camber where out of spec. At the ride height I have, they are not adjustable to within spec (camber) although the toe is. As it stands, I'm running 1.7 negative camber in the front, and 2.2 neg in the back. Both of these are right at, or just outside the specification range for stock.
Tein info:
Springs: rated at 14kg/mm or 783 lb./in. both front and rear. They are linear, not progressive. These springs are approximately double the stiffness of the stock springs which are 314 front/427 rear assuming they're the same as the 06 model. As you can see, there is a significant shift in stiffness to the front end.
Dampers: 16 way adjustable. Compression/Rebound are not independant of each other. My set up is currently right in the middle at 8.
Price: expect to pay around $2k not including the install.
Driving impressions:
Daily Driving - Obviously much stiffer set-up. At low speeds (40 and less) some might consider it harsh over bumps, etc. It takes the edge off, but just the edge. At higher speeds it's suprisingly compliant. It's still very stiff but certainly doesn't beat you to death. With normal driving it's not likely you will feel any body roll at all, even with the stock sways.
Spirited Driving/Track - In my opinion, this is where you start getting a big grin on your face.
Under the limit - Point it somewhere and it goes there...and stays flat doing it. Turn in is noticeably improved, but is probably a combination of more agressive camber, etc. as well as the suspension itself.
At the limit - Some body roll (very small). Rear end stays planted noticeably more, not as easy to induce oversteer with the throttle...even in second gear. Don't expect to swing the tail out anymore unless you're well into the power-band. Previously you could do this even at lower rpm. At lower speeds (less than 60) you can still induce some oversteer. At higher speeds I believe there is a slight bias toward understeer.
Real life comparison:
I took the car to one of my favorite back road curves.
Previously for me, this was a 80-85 mph curve tops. Not necessarily the limit of traction, but limit of comfort. The car did not feel stable enough to push faster.
Now, it's a 90-95 mph curve and the limit is traction/tires as opposed to "comfort". Suspension feels very stable at that speed. The tires however, begin to roll to the sidewalls (that you can feel). Even so, the result is a 4 wheel drift that feels very controllable. I actually tightened my line on this curve to get at this point. Easily correctable by opening the line slightly. Keep in mind this is under WOT in 3rd gear after the apex. Also important to note that this curve is very smooth...no bumps, etc.
At the track, I could concievably seeing increasing the dampening settings, but I would be hesitant for street driving. Not every road and/or track is smooth. I believe increasing it stiffer could possibly induce some skipping over bumps. No way to tell without testing, but it feels like it's getting close at the middle setting.
Overall: Well worth the investment if you like the twisties. You're going to pay some in comfort, but not disagreeable unless you drive at low speed all the time in the city. For myself, it's still worth it even with that. Very trackable suspension.
Any questions let me know!
John
Front: RE050 245/40/18 on a 9" wheel
Rear: RE050 265/35/19 on a 10" wheel
Swaybars: stock
Drop: although the drop is adjustable by a significant range, mine is dropped 1" or a little more. I did not take before measurements as I made the purchase decision while the car was on the rack getting an exhaust installed. Height is adjustable independant of spring preload.
Alignment: I got the car aligned 5 days after the install. Naturally, toe and camber where out of spec. At the ride height I have, they are not adjustable to within spec (camber) although the toe is. As it stands, I'm running 1.7 negative camber in the front, and 2.2 neg in the back. Both of these are right at, or just outside the specification range for stock.
Tein info:
Springs: rated at 14kg/mm or 783 lb./in. both front and rear. They are linear, not progressive. These springs are approximately double the stiffness of the stock springs which are 314 front/427 rear assuming they're the same as the 06 model. As you can see, there is a significant shift in stiffness to the front end.
Dampers: 16 way adjustable. Compression/Rebound are not independant of each other. My set up is currently right in the middle at 8.
Price: expect to pay around $2k not including the install.
Driving impressions:
Daily Driving - Obviously much stiffer set-up. At low speeds (40 and less) some might consider it harsh over bumps, etc. It takes the edge off, but just the edge. At higher speeds it's suprisingly compliant. It's still very stiff but certainly doesn't beat you to death. With normal driving it's not likely you will feel any body roll at all, even with the stock sways.
Spirited Driving/Track - In my opinion, this is where you start getting a big grin on your face.
Under the limit - Point it somewhere and it goes there...and stays flat doing it. Turn in is noticeably improved, but is probably a combination of more agressive camber, etc. as well as the suspension itself.
At the limit - Some body roll (very small). Rear end stays planted noticeably more, not as easy to induce oversteer with the throttle...even in second gear. Don't expect to swing the tail out anymore unless you're well into the power-band. Previously you could do this even at lower rpm. At lower speeds (less than 60) you can still induce some oversteer. At higher speeds I believe there is a slight bias toward understeer.
Real life comparison:
I took the car to one of my favorite back road curves.
Previously for me, this was a 80-85 mph curve tops. Not necessarily the limit of traction, but limit of comfort. The car did not feel stable enough to push faster.
Now, it's a 90-95 mph curve and the limit is traction/tires as opposed to "comfort". Suspension feels very stable at that speed. The tires however, begin to roll to the sidewalls (that you can feel). Even so, the result is a 4 wheel drift that feels very controllable. I actually tightened my line on this curve to get at this point. Easily correctable by opening the line slightly. Keep in mind this is under WOT in 3rd gear after the apex. Also important to note that this curve is very smooth...no bumps, etc.
At the track, I could concievably seeing increasing the dampening settings, but I would be hesitant for street driving. Not every road and/or track is smooth. I believe increasing it stiffer could possibly induce some skipping over bumps. No way to tell without testing, but it feels like it's getting close at the middle setting.
Overall: Well worth the investment if you like the twisties. You're going to pay some in comfort, but not disagreeable unless you drive at low speed all the time in the city. For myself, it's still worth it even with that. Very trackable suspension.
Any questions let me know!
John
Good review... I am already thinking to get the Tein Monoflex with EDFC.
However i am very particular only to drop by recommended hright of 0.8" by Nismo.
1. How do i measure orginal height in the first place?
2. When do i measure the Tein so as to reduce by 0.8"?
is it after install and car is on all four wheels?
if yes means take measure ments and jack all 4 wheels up before adjusting again???
Please help.
05-13-2007, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by DatukZ
Good review... I am already thinking to get the Tein Monoflex with EDFC.
However i am very particular only to drop by recommended hright of 0.8" by Nismo.
1. How do i measure orginal height in the first place?
2. When do i measure the Tein so as to reduce by 0.8"?
is it after install and car is on all four wheels?
if yes means take measure ments and jack all 4 wheels up before adjusting again???
Please help.
However i am very particular only to drop by recommended hright of 0.8" by Nismo.
1. How do i measure orginal height in the first place?
2. When do i measure the Tein so as to reduce by 0.8"?
is it after install and car is on all four wheels?
if yes means take measure ments and jack all 4 wheels up before adjusting again???
Please help.
The instructions show to measure from the center of the hub to the fender, although I suppose you can measure from the floor to the fender. Both should work provided you have a good level surface.
I forget the stock settings on the Tein, but they're in the paperwork that comes with the suspension. Regardless, you'll need to measure once you have it back down. I'd also drive it a little to get everything setting right, then measure. You should be able to calculate the drop from before&after measurements that way.. and adjust as needed.
John
05-13-2007, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by fairladyz220
my mono flex modified into true coil. mono flex..
havent put them on yet ...but will post review when they are on ...
havent put them on yet ...but will post review when they are on ...
05-14-2007, 02:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Mansmind
EDFC.. sweet.
The instructions show to measure from the center of the hub to the fender, although I suppose you can measure from the floor to the fender. Both should work provided you have a good level surface.
I forget the stock settings on the Tein, but they're in the paperwork that comes with the suspension. Regardless, you'll need to measure once you have it back down. I'd also drive it a little to get everything setting right, then measure. You should be able to calculate the drop from before&after measurements that way.. and adjust as needed.
John
The instructions show to measure from the center of the hub to the fender, although I suppose you can measure from the floor to the fender. Both should work provided you have a good level surface.
I forget the stock settings on the Tein, but they're in the paperwork that comes with the suspension. Regardless, you'll need to measure once you have it back down. I'd also drive it a little to get everything setting right, then measure. You should be able to calculate the drop from before&after measurements that way.. and adjust as needed.
John
Also do i really need Tein Perfomance strut bars?
The workshop here advises me to as it should work well with the coilovers ang edfc...
Would appreciate your feedback.
Thanks.
05-14-2007, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by DatukZ
Thanks i read from Tein website that the recommended drop is 0.9" front and 0.8" rear. Do i need camber kits in these situations. Trying to save money without hurting the car.
Also do i really need Tein Perfomance strut bars?
The workshop here advises me to as it should work well with the coilovers ang edfc...
Would appreciate your feedback.
Thanks.
Also do i really need Tein Perfomance strut bars?
The workshop here advises me to as it should work well with the coilovers ang edfc...
Would appreciate your feedback.
Thanks.
I don't think you're going to hurt the car by dropping it more (within reason), but you may wear your tires out faster as more weight is placed on one side of the tread vs. the other. In that situation, a camber kit would allow you to get it back within factory spec.
I don't know anything about their strut bar. My opinion is that to a large extent, a strut bar is a strut bar assuming they're of the same strength, etc. (that varies). You'll have to go with your gut on that one, or ask someone with more specific knowledge of them.
John
05-14-2007, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Mansmind
Theoretically... a 20mm or less drop does not require a camber kit to keep the camber in spec. That's just what I've read.
I don't think you're going to hurt the car by dropping it more (within reason), but you may wear your tires out faster as more weight is placed on one side of the tread vs. the other. In that situation, a camber kit would allow you to get it back within factory spec.
I don't know anything about their strut bar. My opinion is that to a large extent, a strut bar is a strut bar assuming they're of the same strength, etc. (that varies). You'll have to go with your gut on that one, or ask someone with more specific knowledge of them.
John
I don't think you're going to hurt the car by dropping it more (within reason), but you may wear your tires out faster as more weight is placed on one side of the tread vs. the other. In that situation, a camber kit would allow you to get it back within factory spec.
I don't know anything about their strut bar. My opinion is that to a large extent, a strut bar is a strut bar assuming they're of the same strength, etc. (that varies). You'll have to go with your gut on that one, or ask someone with more specific knowledge of them.
John
05-16-2007, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Frostydc4
Nice review. One question. Are the coilovers noisy (do you hear a lot of squeaking, clunking, or banging)? Thanks.
05-16-2007, 02:48 PM
#17
Originally Posted by Mansmind
had to tighten the locking collars once after installation. No noise till they got a little loose, and no noise since (of any kind)
05-16-2007, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Frostydc4
One more question. Do the rear springs mount like OEM or are they mounted on the shock body and do they have to be removed to make any dampening adjustments? Thanks again.
07-22-2007, 05:53 PM
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+1 on the mono's and the review above. Sharif & Co. put mine on last week for me while I was in Boston for a wedding. After a week and a half of driving and an alignment its pure bliss.
One note, make sure to get an alignment afterwards. I gave it a few days before getting mine done and prior to the alignment the car was all over road, especially when it was wet. The back end would crab and shimmy left and right until you got down under 40-45 mph.
One real life example - Going out of the toll plaza on GA400 where the concrete joins the asphalt it has a good 1-2" hump of asphalt. On the stock dampers/springs the car would rise up and you would lose traction at anything over 50% throttle. With the mono's you can WOT and still keep most of your traction, the mono's really recovery nicely on rebound.
I haven't had a chance to get it out on the track yet, but I'm really looking forward to having a completely different feeling car on the track. There is just no comparison with the stock suspension based on the spirited DD I've had over the last few days.
friz
One note, make sure to get an alignment afterwards. I gave it a few days before getting mine done and prior to the alignment the car was all over road, especially when it was wet. The back end would crab and shimmy left and right until you got down under 40-45 mph.
One real life example - Going out of the toll plaza on GA400 where the concrete joins the asphalt it has a good 1-2" hump of asphalt. On the stock dampers/springs the car would rise up and you would lose traction at anything over 50% throttle. With the mono's you can WOT and still keep most of your traction, the mono's really recovery nicely on rebound.
I haven't had a chance to get it out on the track yet, but I'm really looking forward to having a completely different feeling car on the track. There is just no comparison with the stock suspension based on the spirited DD I've had over the last few days.
friz
08-08-2007, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by frizille
+1 on the mono's and the review above. Sharif & Co. put mine on last week for me while I was in Boston for a wedding. After a week and a half of driving and an alignment its pure bliss.
One note, make sure to get an alignment afterwards. I gave it a few days before getting mine done and prior to the alignment the car was all over road, especially when it was wet. The back end would crab and shimmy left and right until you got down under 40-45 mph.
One real life example - Going out of the toll plaza on GA400 where the concrete joins the asphalt it has a good 1-2" hump of asphalt. On the stock dampers/springs the car would rise up and you would lose traction at anything over 50% throttle. With the mono's you can WOT and still keep most of your traction, the mono's really recovery nicely on rebound.
I haven't had a chance to get it out on the track yet, but I'm really looking forward to having a completely different feeling car on the track. There is just no comparison with the stock suspension based on the spirited DD I've had over the last few days.
friz
One note, make sure to get an alignment afterwards. I gave it a few days before getting mine done and prior to the alignment the car was all over road, especially when it was wet. The back end would crab and shimmy left and right until you got down under 40-45 mph.
One real life example - Going out of the toll plaza on GA400 where the concrete joins the asphalt it has a good 1-2" hump of asphalt. On the stock dampers/springs the car would rise up and you would lose traction at anything over 50% throttle. With the mono's you can WOT and still keep most of your traction, the mono's really recovery nicely on rebound.
I haven't had a chance to get it out on the track yet, but I'm really looking forward to having a completely different feeling car on the track. There is just no comparison with the stock suspension based on the spirited DD I've had over the last few days.
friz
John