3rdpower

So I was waiting a while before I wrote up a review about these two products together. First for clarification - my TEIN Flex is with EDFC... now...

First, the TEIN Flex system made a nice improvement in the driving dynamics. I was able to easily hunker down on some turns where I tended to lose a lot of grip. The TEIN install was done by a local racing shop here in Seattle. The installation cost was roughly $250 (a steal considering the EDFC was a pain in the **** to install!). The feature / functionality of the EDFC is undeniable... it is a serious must if you are going to buy the flex system spend the extra for the EDFC! There's nothing like a nice smooth ride when you want and a serious corner cutter when you really want to get down.

The 350evo sways are great! First off... if you are new to the sway bar thing let me say that expect squeeking... there is NOTHING that can be done to stop polyurethane (yeah I hacked it up!) from squeeking. With that out of the way I'll just say the sways are AWESOME. Everything from the build quality to the bushings, to the instructions were all great. 350EVO did a knock up job. Performance wise I was a bit disappointed until I got on the freeway and on ramp... I took off like a bolt (just installed cat throughs - see review in engine mods!). I navigated the ramp like with absolutely no body roll what-so-ever. I whipped around the corner and out of it with perfect grip. The 350EVO sways are are a great addition to the already great suspension on the Z. Tein and 350EVO Sways together is an awesome combination in my opinion. Not too aggressive (thunderous bumps on the road) and tight when you like it to be tight... in the corners.

If you have questions about the combo go and and PM me or heck... post it here!

Buub

iTrader: (1)

I'm curious, how adjustable are the EVO sways?

kgb

I’m having trouble with clunking and squeaking with the EVO bars that is totally unacceptable to me. A little squeaking every now and then is normal, but the noise I'm experiencing is ridiculous. Creaking, clicking & clunking noises as I coast along in a parking lot? This is not right.

In addition, the effectiveness of the bars is somewhat diminished with this problem. As the rear bars became noisier, I noticed the ride quality deteriorated considerably. The ride is harder and more jarring -- and it wasn't this way when the bars were initially installed.

Yesterday, I received a new set of bushings from EVO; hopefully this will resolve the problem.

John

iTrader: (17)

The new bushings do solve the problem (which is really inherit in the rear). BJ and I discussed the situation at great lengths, and it was determined that the original bushings were molded to the sway bar prior to it being powder coated. Therefore, the powercoating increased the circumference of the sway bar, and the bushings aren't flush with the sway bar. The rear will squeak more since the diameter is smaller and the powdercoating affects the circumference more than the front bar.

As for a review of the sway bars alone, I installed them in June, and took the car to Summit Point the very next day. On the med / med setting, the car turns in MUCH sharper, and feels much more balanced / neutral in the turns. Even under full throttle, the car feels planted, but with throttle lift, the rear end will come out (but not in a snapsteer fashion). Car performed beautifully at Summit Point and Watkins Glen with this setup. 350Evo gets a big from me.

3rdpower

I gotta say that the squeeking just about drove me crazy driving to work this morning. No question on the cars ability to corner - I was going around turns 10+ mph more then I was in the past... however, everything has to be balanced out - drivability versus performance.... I was supposedly part of the group who got the new bushings, however, I have to say I don't see they are any better then the prior experiences posted. It's very embarassing having a brand new car and it's squeekin' like your car has rickets.

How are other peoples experiences with the Nismo and Cucso sways???

Gsedan35

iTrader: (10)

Go here, EVO specs and all other know aftermarket sway bar specs.

https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....sway+bar+specs

Gsedan35

iTrader: (10)

Interesting, at those settings your 11% stiffer in the front and 53% stiffer in the rear, netting you a 42% increase in rear roll stiffness. That explains the drop throttle oversteer to me. Why not run the front bar in the higher setting and reduce the rear roll stiffness? I'd like to know if running the front bar like that eliminates the drop throttle oversteer.

I'll take it that your comment's on the drop throttle oversteer occur when your at the limit of adheasion, correct?

FlyingToaster

If he does what you suggest, then the car will understeer dramatically; adjusting front and rear at the same time in opposite direction.

If the car feels balanced in that setting, the only adjustment he can possibly consider is increase the rear stiffness and get more load on to the rears.

As for the squeeking and rattles, it is inherent to all A/R bars with polyutherane bushings. One way to get rid of it is to use the original rubber bushings, which I do not know if they are suitable for the EVO bars. Alternatively, frequently greasing the bushings helps as well, but does not eliminate it.

There is another way that is under development right now, and unfortunately, I cannot announce it at this time. We do hope it will nearly completely eliminate the various noises inherent in this type of modification.

3rdpower - have you picked up the default spring rates for the TEIN, or specified different rates during purchase?

John

iTrader: (17)

Another way to help minimize the noise (which I have none now BTW) is to saturate all the contact points of the polyurethane bushings with a lubricant. I essentially "marinated" the bushings in lithium grease, lubed up the brackets, and even greased up the contact point on the frame, and oila, noise is gone.

As for the settings, FlyerToaster hit it on the mark. I was tempted to try stiffer settings at Watkins Glen, but didn't want to try a new setting there since that track is not forgiving whatsoever. You go off at the Glen, and it's inevitable that you're taking the armco with you.

FlyingToaster

I know how that feels.

Gsedan35

iTrader: (10)

What I'm wondering is to go from a (I know what it means)

Front bar
middle adjustment 11% stiffer.

To stiff adjustment 33% stiffer in the front.

You must be thinking I was talking about allot more than a 22% increase. The rear would still see a 20% increase in rear roll bar stiffness vs stock. If that still leaves a smidge of understeer, so be it. Drop throttle oversteer isn't something I'd want, increasing rear roll stiffness further, overall balance nonwithstanding, will applify this behavior, no thank you. In the interest of banishing such behavior I want to know if he drove the car with the stiffer front bar setting and what comment's he might have. Thus the reason for my question. Add to this the fact that my sedan has very little understeer at the moment, so I'm not starting out chasing the big understeer demon.

His post also concern's me since I'm about to buy the Cusco bar's vs spending $150 extra for the EVO bars. If he banished the drop throttle oversteer using the stiffer adjustment in the front, I'll gladly spend the extra money. The Cusco bars have a 43% increase in rear roll bar stiffness vs stock when compaired to their front bar.

FlyingToaster

May be I am misinterpreting the phrase "drop throttle". Do you mean comming off throttle in mid-turn, or something else?

As for A/R bar selection, frankly the overall approach can be misleading if you are after % increase in stiffness in comparison what 3rdPower is using.

I don't want to bore you guys to death, so I'll keep it brief. The bar selection has to go hand-in-hand with the overall suspension and chassis setup. The issue here is partly of spring rates and partly wheel rates. However, the real issue always comes down to degree side lean per 1G cornering and suspension frequency.

He is using TEIN Flex coilovers, if with default springs (560f/560r if I recall correctly), would yield a completely different setup than yours if you don't have the exact same setup.

Additionally, you have a G35C which has totally different curb weight/gross weight and sprung weight/unsprung weight ratios than that of the Z. Hence, you would end up with a completely different setup, handling and feel if you were to go by his selections.

If you really want a particular setup, you have to start with a target suspension frequency and work your way back towards spring rates and A/R ratings. Can you practically do that? Unfortunately no. Manufacturers are not publishing their suspension frequency rates. But hopefully that will be changing

3rdpower

Just an update - I believe I'm going to go ahead and remove the poly bushings and slap in the OEM rubbers. I'll wait until 350EVO can resolve the issue before I put the polys back on. BJ over at 350EVO said the rubbers are compatiable with their swaybar.

John

iTrader: (17)

I know J Ritt is using the OEM bushings with his 350Evo bars. I'll send him the link to this thread...

FlyingToaster

I think that is the right thing to do. I do not think you will be loosing a significant precision.

J Ritt

iTrader: (4)

Hey, you guys just happened to catch me on here...been VERY busy lately, so not much board time.

Anyway, I too had the bushing issue. I received my replacements for the rear bar, but haven't gotten the ones for the front yet. I'm trying to be patient and a good sport about this though.

After my initial install, I realized that the horrible racket from the bushings was not possible to live with. I decided to use the stock bushings for now, until 350Evo gets this resolved. The car does not feel as sharp as it does on the poly bushings (big surprise, right? ) I was very surprised by how much softer it felt overall. The stock bushings fit fairly well on the front if I remember correctly, but were stretched a bit in the rear. It is doable however.

I'm also running a different stiffness than Hedonist. At BJ's recommendation, I am running full stiff front with medium rear, on the Nismo S Tune suspension. I've had the chance to drive this setup on the street, autoX, and finally a road course last weekend. Also, I have run it on stock 17 inch wheels and tires, and 18x9 and 18x10 with 245/40 and 275/40 street tires.

On with the show. First and foremost...the car feels better pretty much anywhere, anytime with the bigger wheel/tire combo. It feels more stable, turns in better, and gets out of corners faster. I'm assuming part of this is due to the fact that the shock/spring combo I have was developed with those tire sizes in mind.

As for the feel with the bars set to F stiff/R med, I think it feels pretty neutral, without being dangerous. It definitely has far less push than stock, and you can get on the throttle earlier. In slow speed corners such as street and autoX, it feels very well balanced.

At higher speeds on the track, I did not feel ANY threat of the car snapping on me. That's not to say that the car didn't feel it wanted to turn. It did...but I wasn't getting lift throttle oversteer like Hedonist mentioned. This is counterintuitive to my experience with my old type R which had a big 26mm mugen bar in back, and the stocker in front...so I'm still trying to understand the dynamics of what's going on myself. BJ had mentioned that with the LSD, it was ok to have the back end at soft or med, while keeping the front stiff.

I only drove on the track with the stock 17's and tires. I felt like I could pound it pretty good without threat of spinning off or plowing for most of the time. I had some nice drifts, and the car was incredibly easy to control. After a number of hot laps, I felt like my front tires started to go away a bit though. I really don't think the 225/235 combo is nearly big enough for the car. The front started pushing wide in the tighter turns as the temps went up. They seemed to be working good in the 39-41 psi range...after a few laps they were out of that range though, and I started to lose front end grip at turn in. Ideally, I would have liked to try this setup with my big tires set at about 36psi cold.

I plan on trying the med/med setting at some point soon. I was trying to be conservative at first, since that was the first time I took this car on the track. I'll definitely post impressions when I make the switch.

So, the takeaway from this shpiel would be...the stiff/med setting with my suspension and wheel/tire combo dials a lot of understeer out of the car, but it's still fun, safe, and won't get you out of shape if you press it hard and drive smoothely. I'm feeling very confident with the car at this point (probably too confident), so I'll be toying with other settings soon.

3rdpower

AWESOME and VERY informative reply - THANK YOU VERY much!

Buub

iTrader: (1)

I was talking to a guy who tracks his S2000 a lot (pretty heavily modified, including supercharger). He said that a lot of the guys he knows remove the rear sway bar entirely for autox.

Sounds kinda odd, but he seemed to think it was good for lower-speed high-cornering like that.

I'm trying to understand if that would induce more understeer or oversteer, and why.

dwnshift

iTrader: (1)

We (350EVO) are addressing the situation with the squeaking on the bars. We had a meeting with our polyeurthane bushing manufacture yesterday and are working on a new mold. We had them switch the compound (slightly softer) and attempt to open the bushing up a bit. This seemed to "help" the situation. Our customers have been very patient and have been giving great feedback. The new bushings are scheduled to be done for next week. I apoligize for the inconvienence.
We are working on it.
Once we get the nosies fixed I think everyone agreeson the performance of our bars.
BJ@350EVO.com

dwnshift

iTrader: (1)

For low speed cornering.........in some situations more roll (removing rear sway bar) will help create oversteer or roll oversteer......on the other hand sometimes going stiffer on the rear bar will keep the car from oversteering in high speed corners......its all about the situation and the car.

A sudden lift off of the gas throws more weight on the front tires......giving more grip up front less in the rear.......this also will create oversteer in some situations..or just provide a little more front grip durning a mid corner understeer/ push.