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Old 04-22-2010, 05:09 PM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by JasonZ-YA View Post
Those guys are usually slammed low that hit with their front upper control arms.

how high are you?? how much of a drop did you do with your springs?
Not sure on ride height. The nismo suspension is stated as giving a .8 inch drop all around. But now that its been installed for awhile, perhaps its a bit lower after settling--maybe the right front is more settled/worn given the bushing seemed to be in the same condition (slight weak but ok) as the left one.

Originally Posted by JasonZ-YA View Post
yes, for the most part both front upper control arms and rear camber arms have upgraded bushings over oem OR are replaced with spacers and rod ends!
Ok, Is it true that there may be more noise resulting from these aftermarket bushings? Is there any noise with your SPL unit?

Originally Posted by JasonZ-YA View Post
. To me the SP"L" is a quality front upper control arm
2. SP"C" front upper camber arm sucks donkey *****!
3. Kinetix - I have never heard of any failures???? where are you getting that?
I remember seeing a thread about a failed Kinteix rear control arm, can't find it now. Also, the recent thread about the Ichiba failures:
http://g35driver.com/forums/brakes-s...eck-yours.html
SPC Camber arm issue:
http://g35driver.com/forums/brakes-s...rm-issues.html
SPL Control Arm Failure (but this was a recall/only affected some units?):
http://g35driver.com/forums/brakes-s...d-quality.html

Originally Posted by JasonZ-YA View Post
no, people do it all the time, they leave their factory eccentric washer installed and you can completely adjust camber using the aftermarket adjustable camber arm ONLY!!! but with the eccentric washer there you run the risk of it moving/slipping, etc....

-- On my car i have lock out washers i made - (to eliminate ALL eccentric bolts) and all my adjustment is done via the aftermarket camber or toe arm...see post #20

-J
Ok, so installing just the rear camber arm and using the oem eccentric bolt (stronger than the SPC, albeit still prone to moving), may give me enough adjustment? But what about using just using the SPC camber bolts? Will that give the same amount of added positive adjustment as just a camber arm?

Finally, would there be any problems if attempting to swap back the oem parts in the car, after making the adjustments needed for the aftermarket parts (e.g. after elongating area where rear camber bolts go--will this make it not possible to put back in the oem bolts?, or the shaving required when putting in the SPL front control arms?)

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Old 04-22-2010, 06:01 PM
  #82  
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Epicccccc POST! Had to text Jason to share my appreciation of this thread. I wish I had this as a resource a year ago! Very informative and especially liked the info about placing cement bags in the rear hatch for a drift alignment.
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Old 04-22-2010, 06:16 PM
  #83  
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The more I think about it, I would be more focused on correcting the issue I have in the front (difference b/w sides due to bushing or spring settling) than in the back (slighly out of recommended toe/camber recommended specs, but overall even on both sides). This seems to be different than most people, who purchase parts for rear adjustment before considering the same for the front.

I dunno know though, it seems like there is some issue(s) with all of them current front arms available, and while there are a lot of brands out there, they all seem to be average or sub-par in quality, or lack of positive adjustment (even the expensive jdm ones are designed like and made of the same materials as the readily available ones).

I wish these were still available:

https://my350z.com/forum/wheels-and-...available.html

I believe those were made from a solid piece of aluminum (one unit--not welded together like the Stillen and the Kinetix) and had plates that secured the alignment so it wouldn't change after driving use. I guess the owner was racing in Grand Cup series and these were w/in spec for that class and was made in a batch of 200 and offered for a period of time to the public. Production cost and subsequently retail cost of these were very high however, and probably why they aren't still for sale...

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Old 04-23-2010, 05:58 AM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by jonnylaw View Post
Not sure on ride height. The nismo suspension is stated as giving a .8 inch drop all around. But now that its been installed for awhile, perhaps its a bit lower after settling--maybe the right front is more settled/worn given the bushing seemed to be in the same condition (slight weak but ok) as the left one.
quite possible with springs........


Originally Posted by jonnylaw View Post
Ok, Is it true that there may be more noise resulting from these aftermarket bushings? Is there any noise with your SPL unit?
My spl front upper control arms are the Version 2 arms - no noise at all.


Originally Posted by jonnylaw View Post
I remember seeing a thread about a failed Kinteix rear control arm, can't find it now. Also, the recent thread about the Ichiba failures:
http://g35driver.com/forums/brakes-s...eck-yours.html
SPC Camber arm issue:
http://g35driver.com/forums/brakes-s...rm-issues.html
SPL Control Arm Failure (but this was a recall/only affected some units?):
http://g35driver.com/forums/brakes-s...d-quality.html
Okay, yes, those bushings failed. rare im sure, but ya.


you can chose when buying a rear camber arm if you want ROD END style end or you want bushing style end. ONe may result in noise - MINE DID, but i just spray it every 3 months or so with lithium lube.

I chose RODEND style ended rear camber arms because I track my car - and i don't want a bushing to fail ever! so i opted for the solid rod end style versus bushing end style.


Originally Posted by jonnylaw View Post
SPL Control Arm Failure (but this was a recall/only affected some units?):
http://g35driver.com/forums/brakes-s...d-quality.html
FRONT SPL mentioned - that was spl's first version, not sure if that was the reason why they went to Version2 or not, but is that the ONLY indicated case??? no need to answer, but anything can happen to anyone with aftermarket parts..........

Originally Posted by jonnylaw View Post
Ok, so installing just the rear camber arm and using the oem eccentric bolt (stronger than the SPC, albeit still prone to moving), may give me enough adjustment? But what about using just using the SPC camber bolts? Will that give the same amount of added positive adjustment as just a camber arm?
usually no! it all depends on your drop! but one guy i did that for got to a point where he dropped to low and wasn't able to get into camber adjustment with the SPC bolt installed AT THE CAMBER LOCATION! (REASONING- the camber arm is short, throw is affected more with that short of an arm versus the 17.5 inch long spring bucket at toe location)

GET A CAMBER ARM! done and done!!!

and the camber arms for the most part (as i haven't tried them all) do have way more adjustment range/threads still available after spec is achieved!

however for you, since your not dropped much at all (.8 you said) then you can probably get away with just the spc bolt at the camber arm location and get back into spec.........its up to you on what you want to buy and try and go get alignments on again and again "IF" it doesn't work...



Originally Posted by jonnylaw View Post
Finally, would there be any problems if attempting to swap back the oem parts in the car, after making the adjustments needed for the aftermarket parts (e.g. after elongating area where rear camber bolts go--will this make it not possible to put back in the oem bolts?, or the shaving required when putting in the SPL front control arms?)

REAR SPC Bolts and elongating:
sure you can put the oem bolts back on - but why would you??? selling the car or not, just leave them....

and if you do, sure, its the next guys problem....either way its gonna end up where the oem bolt just uses friction and stays between the flats......No more aluminum lug to push against is all........

SPL - arms - shaving the bumps off
- no way to put those back on, so it is what it is..............odds of anyone seeing that??? minimal if at all?!?! if ever selling the car...


Originally Posted by jonnylaw View Post
The more I think about it, I would be more focused on correcting the issue I have in the front (difference b/w sides due to bushing or spring settling) than in the back (slightly out of recommended toe/camber recommended specs, but overall even on both sides). This seems to be different than most people, who purchase parts for rear adjustment before considering the same for the front.
NO, for you thats YOUR CASE! why?? because your only lowered .8 if that?!?! Luckily you can get into spec with oem eccentric washers!

For those lowered like this thread explains! YOU NEED THE REAR COMPONENTS, i.e. rear toe bolt and rear camber arm...

Originally Posted by jonnylaw View Post
I dunno know though, it seems like there is some issue(s) with all of them current front arms available, and while there are a lot of brands out there, they all seem to be average or sub-par in quality, or lack of positive adjustment (even the expensive jdm ones are designed like and made of the same materials as the readily available ones).
well, thats why i have 3 different post on front upper control arms - POST 6, 7 and 8 to semi get the point across that there are many different front upper control arms available. Some that adjust only camber, some that adjust both camber and caster, AND some that are easy to adjust at the track on the fly.......

from there its up to the buyer to choose....

Originally Posted by jonnylaw View Post
I wish these were still available:
https://my350z.com/forum/wheels-and-...available.html
I believe those were made from a solid piece of aluminum (one unit--not welded together like the Stillen and the Kinetix) and had plates that secured the alignment so it wouldn't change after driving use. I guess the owner was racing in Grand Cup series and these were w/in spec for that class and was made in a batch of 200 and offered for a period of time to the public. Production cost and subsequently retail cost of these were very high however, and probably why they aren't still for sale...
I dont see anything in that link.............but if its not SPL Version two, then i wouldnt want it...........as i would want camber and caster adjustable.

and SPL's version two also has plates/shims that secures camber/alignment so it doesnt change as well. they do everything your talking about there as well, ie one unit, all aluminum, no welding, etc... and so do some of the others..

Also, the new kinetics are made from STAINLESS STEEL, so maybe they figured the fix for it over their first design....see my post #7.

-J
Attached Thumbnails Suspension 101-rodendbushingstyle.jpg  

Last edited by JasonZ-YA; 04-23-2010 at 06:11 AM.
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Old 04-27-2010, 01:40 AM
  #85  
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Jason, btw these are what the performancenissan a arms looked like:

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Old 04-27-2010, 04:42 AM
  #86  
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Originally Posted by jonnylaw View Post
Jason, btw these are what the performancenissan a arms looked like:
Okay, not a bad looking part....It looks like they use different shim thicknesses you unbolt and add or subtract away from the stack up in order to change camber.......so not too difficult track side. They also appear to be of robust cnc machining so im sure they are rigid, , however, I would NOT ever choose to buy them because.....

1. No caster adjust ability. - if you don't care for adjusting caster, then no biggy...

2. has compliant rubber bushings at the car mounting side...would rather have rod end style bushings versus something i would have to worry about tearing, etc....

-J

Last edited by JasonZ-YA; 04-28-2010 at 12:26 PM.
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Old 04-28-2010, 12:15 PM
  #87  
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Had it not been for this thread, and the mention of the SPL lockout washers, I would have forever had camber slipping issues...awesome info to have. Thanks
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Old 05-01-2010, 10:01 AM
  #88  
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this is a great thread. i am in the process of upgrading my suspension. I'm looking for the best setup for my budget for a track car, road course. this thread has stopped me from spending some wasteful money on cheaper parts. im not in any rush as i dont drive my Z except for track and maybe 50 miles a month if lucky, i have a new born and we only take the G35 when we go places but on the rare time my wife and i can go on a date we take the Z. but none the less this is what im looking at for my suspension set up and want to see if you(jason) think this is ok.
1.d2 coilovers (own) bought before i read this site
2.spc rear camber arms (own) bought before i read this site
3.SPL lockout washers
4.spl rear toe arms
5.SPL Parts PRO V2 front upper control arms, (was going to go spc but will save up for these)
6.spl front swaybar end links
7.spl rear sway bar endlinks
8.Hotchkis front & rear sway bars
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Old 05-01-2010, 09:33 PM
  #89  
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Originally Posted by 06daytona View Post
this is a great thread. i am in the process of upgrading my suspension. I'm looking for the best setup for my budget for a track car, road course. this thread has stopped me from spending some wasteful money on cheaper parts. im not in any rush as i dont drive my Z except for track and maybe 50 miles a month if lucky, i have a new born and we only take the G35 when we go places but on the rare time my wife and i can go on a date we take the Z. but none the less this is what im looking at for my suspension set up and want to see if you(jason) think this is ok.
It honestly sounds like you read and grasped the thread quite well...

Originally Posted by 06daytona View Post
1.d2 coilovers (own) bought before i read this site
okay - gotcha - true coilover style - CHECK..
Originally Posted by 06daytona View Post
2.spc rear camber arms (own) bought before i read this site
okay, i would have perfered rod end style, but ok, just inspect it.
Originally Posted by 06daytona View Post
3.SPL lockout washers
good job - remember you need two sets, one at rear camber and one set at rear toe. both are subframe lug mount locations. 2 pair of bolts, 2 square washers per bolt.
Originally Posted by 06daytona View Post
4.spl rear toe arms
sounds good. check.
Originally Posted by 06daytona View Post
5.SPL Parts PRO V2 front upper control arms, (was going to go spc but will save up for these)
I take it you have intentions of adjusting caster......and adjusting camber trackside.....awesome selection and great idea to save your money and spend it on SPL's UCA instead - much better choice of front UCA over SPC hands down..
Originally Posted by 06daytona View Post
6.spl front swaybar end links
ensure you torque properly.
Originally Posted by 06daytona View Post
7.spl rear sway bar endlinks
see #6
Originally Posted by 06daytona View Post
8.Hotchkis front & rear sway bars
those are adjustable sway bars, multiple settings? if so good choice.

-J

Last edited by JasonZ-YA; 05-03-2010 at 07:56 AM.
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Old 05-06-2010, 11:00 AM
  #90  
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Thanks for the thread I learned everything I needed to know and am going to order eibach pro springs and camber kit for my new Z. I have a question about break in though. Is it bad to wait for the springs to settle before getting the alignment done? I'd rather wait for it to get to where it's going to stay and align it then since if it drops more after I align it will be off again.

thanks
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Old 05-06-2010, 11:14 AM
  #91  
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Originally Posted by SightSeeker View Post
Thanks for the thread I learned everything I needed to know and am going to order eibach pro springs and camber kit for my new Z. I have a question about break in though. Is it bad to wait for the springs to settle before getting the alignment done? I'd rather wait for it to get to where it's going to stay and align it then since if it drops more after I align it will be off again.
thanks
ya know, I hear the "general rule of thumb" that most people say to daily drive for a few weeks then go take it in.............sure i guess.......whos to say how much springs settle or if one settles more than the other, etc??? i dunno.......

I know Tein in particular has a warranty on their springs to supposedly guarantee that their springs wont settle more than 5 millimeters but then that raises the question to me, "how many people actually remove the springs X amount of miles down the road and actually measure them??" and "if they do, with what do they measure with to be accurate to 5mm"

I guess the best answer is for you to decide.......

If ya had to ask me for an "fair" answer, i would then remind you what i talk about in post #26 and recommend you purchase an alignment special and routinely have your car alignment checked.........

IMHO, with the Z not holding alignement all to well with the various reason i mention through out the thread (bushings, eccentric washer slip, etc) I would think an alignment every 6 to 8 months would be in order ANYWAYS, and more so for those that do more than daily drive........

-J

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Old 05-06-2010, 02:40 PM
  #92  
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I got my alignment done today, here is the spec sheet and a pic of my car. I run Volk GTC 19x9.5/10.5, 245 35/285 35 tires, lowered on Eibach Sportline springs. I have the SPC toe bolts, Stillen camber arms, and SPL lockout washers on the camber arms. I'm lost on the specs...am I in good shape?

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Old 05-06-2010, 09:26 PM
  #93  
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Im guessing 37569 is your mileage? i usually see them write it down on the sheet prior to doing alignment........

Well, your front caster is off by 0.6........ - RE-read what i wrote on caster difference at middle of post #23.

"SPECIFIED RANGE"
- The oem specs - all the way to the right.
"ACTUAL" - is what the alignment shop did for you....
"BEFORE" is obviously what you drove in with.


FRONT:

CAMBER
Obviously due to your drop, and lack of front upper control arm your camber is where it is, no changing it.
LH - Drivers side:
Your at -1.9
RH - pass side:
your at -1.8
--- Good thing here is you are close on both sides here.....
Also, yes, its out of spec, but thats not that bad........-1.8 up front wont kill your tires super fast or anything........monitor and decide if you wanna buck up and get front upper control arms......and even if you did i wouldnt recommend -1.33 to get in spec......its weak IMHO......up to you...

TOE:
in spec on both sides - GREEN! .05 and .07 - so not far from each other either.

CASTER:
Well your caster is in spec since the range is [7.4 to 8.9]
LH - 8.0 (which is factory spec 8.0)
RH - 8.6 - which is in spec but way off from the LH side.....

MY advice would be to inspect the compression arm bushings, then inspect the upper control arm bushings where the upper A-arm mounts to the car....

seems odd if your car only has 37K on it, but obviously your alignment is telling you something....

ALSO:
notice your SAI - Steering Angle Inclination - yep...google it....
I would say inspect well, but i doubt you have anything bent......
Odds are its the compression arm bushing due to the cars SLA design suspension or another bushing.......also check the translink bushing.....as that will affect camber and SAI....
Review bushings post #23

A good alignment tech would have inspected well and tried to find why its off........

SAI - google it!
SAI is the measurement in degrees of the steering pivot line when viewed from the front of the vehicle. This angle, when added to the camber to form the included angle (see below) causes the vehicle to lift slightly when you turn the wheel away from a straight ahead position. This action uses the weight of the vehicle to cause the steering wheel to return to the center when you let go of it after making a turn. Because of this, if the SAI is different from side to side, it will cause a pull at very slow speeds. Most alignment machines have a way to measure SAI; however it is not separately adjustable. The most likely cause for SAI being out is bent parts which must be replaced to correct the condition. SAI is also referred to as KPI (King Pin Inclination) on trucks and old cars with king pins instead of ball joints.

REAR:
Fine and symetrical....

-J

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Old 05-07-2010, 03:23 AM
  #94  
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Ys, that is the mileage. Thank you for the input...SPL control arms are on the to-do list!
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Old 05-07-2010, 03:42 AM
  #95  
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Originally Posted by FATPUBUS View Post
Ys, that is the mileage. Thank you for the input...SPL control arms are on the to-do list!
Great choice!

However, don't buy SPL solely to fix the caster "0.6" issue you have........your cars caster should be even already..........inspect and find out whats going on to cause the 0.6 difference now! if its a bushing, you can drive your car off the alignment rack go around the block and then put it back on the alignment rack and it will be different yet again.......so somethings up for it to be off that much......

Do you track/daily???

-J
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Old 05-07-2010, 08:47 AM
  #96  
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Never tracked and seldom driven...lol ive put 400 miles on this year! Ive known of spl parts for awhile except the lockouts, and their parts just look sweet and you want them! Im a firm beleiver "you get what you pay for" so ill spend a few extra bucks on good parts.
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Old 05-07-2010, 08:50 AM
  #97  
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Originally Posted by FATPUBUS View Post
Never tracked and seldom driven...lol ive put 400 miles on this year! Ive known of spl parts for awhile except the lockouts, and their parts just look sweet and you want them! Im a firm beleiver "you get what you pay for" so ill spend a few extra bucks on good parts.
oh yes, by all means..... I love most of their stuff too........what im saying though is that your caster is off from side to side, so something else is going on there......buying spl and fixing caster on one side, but not replacing a bushing or whatever is wrong - thats bad, a will later yield the same results......

-J
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Old 05-07-2010, 02:52 PM
  #98  
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Hey Jason, (other guru's),
I am going to be running a staggered setup. 20x11 +10 wheels in the rear
19x9 +25 up front.

I will never be lowering my 350. I live in a pot hole infested state w/ many bumps, ect...
That said, do I need to worry about getting a camber kit or anything?
My suspension rides great now, and after the staggered setup I'll go get it aligned and I'd like to keep the stock suspension but have always been under the impression that I had to adjust toe/camber. I'm hoping this isn't the case.
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Old 05-10-2010, 06:02 AM
  #99  
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Originally Posted by J. Dub View Post
Hey Jason, (other guru's),
I am going to be running a staggered setup. 20x11 +10 wheels in the rear
19x9 +25 up front.

I will never be lowering my 350. I live in a pot hole infested state w/ many bumps, ect...
That said, do I need to worry about getting a camber kit or anything?
My suspension rides great now, and after the staggered setup I'll go get it aligned and I'd like to keep the stock suspension but have always been under the impression that I had to adjust toe/camber. I'm hoping this isn't the case.
what size tires on those wheels????

you need to google "tire size calculator" and compare your factory size wheels and tires to your current size........if the difference is great enough you "may" need at least the rear adjustment components mentioned:

rear: camber arm and 3 degree toe bolt
front: i doubt worth buying as i would guess your alignment will fall about -1.5

No way for me to guess even semi accurately with out knowing the tire size for those wheels..


Originally Posted by vdemon311 View Post
thank you so much jason, seriously........ thank you, this write up has changed my life lol
lol.....DON'T JUMP......no prob...


-J

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Old 05-13-2010, 05:33 AM
  #100  
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Thanks Jason! Epic write up. I've been planning out the suspension mods I have been wanting to do and have been a little lost. This helps simplify every thing. Change this part; need this part. Fix this part upgrade with this. So much easier than hunting for info on other sites or hearing about problems others have had. All good info, but difficult to wade through. Btw I love my Eibach sways, good product. Two holes in front, three in rear. Thanks again.
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