Fast, one man break fluid replacement method
05-05-2004, 05:36 AM
#1
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Fast, one man break fluid replacement method
Here is what I did last night. It's kind of different from usual steps so I'd like some knowledgable guys to point out if what I did is wrong and why. I had no help and one-man bleeding kit's bottle was so small that I have to improvise. I used only common sence and basic engeneering knowledges.... and it's important system after all
1. Jacked up left rear
2. Attached plastic tube to the valve and placed other end into the long Sauza mixto tequila bottle which was secured in the suspension parts ABOVE the valve. So tube from valve goes up and than into the bottle.
3. Unscrewed valve
4. Pumped brake pedal till blue was coming out, adding Super Blue into the brake fluid reservour all the time
5. Closed valve
6. Jacked up all right side (important when you have to use stock jack)
7-X. Repeated sequence for right front, rear, left front.
X+1. Checked that fluid it up to MAX and closed reservour.
I know that all the other methods suggest using buddy to pump brakes, but I find it unnecessary. I'm absolutely sure that with tube going up from valve, no air get into valve, since fluid was in the tube all the time through the process. And pumping fluid generously through system I'm quite sure that all the air bubbles got out.
It could be done in very short amount of time if you have low profile hydraulic jack, since it illiminates a lot of steps... One don't even have to get out of drivers seat to check if fluid is through...
In my case 10 pushes of pedal was more than enough for rears and 5 for fronts. You only have to warry about fluid reservouar.
I used about .75L of Super Blue and it could be less if I'd only pump till blue appears. But I bleed it way longer, probably flushed it twice, actually.
So do you guys see anything wrong with this method?
1. Jacked up left rear
2. Attached plastic tube to the valve and placed other end into the long Sauza mixto tequila bottle which was secured in the suspension parts ABOVE the valve. So tube from valve goes up and than into the bottle.
3. Unscrewed valve
4. Pumped brake pedal till blue was coming out, adding Super Blue into the brake fluid reservour all the time
5. Closed valve
6. Jacked up all right side (important when you have to use stock jack)
7-X. Repeated sequence for right front, rear, left front.
X+1. Checked that fluid it up to MAX and closed reservour.
I know that all the other methods suggest using buddy to pump brakes, but I find it unnecessary. I'm absolutely sure that with tube going up from valve, no air get into valve, since fluid was in the tube all the time through the process. And pumping fluid generously through system I'm quite sure that all the air bubbles got out.
It could be done in very short amount of time if you have low profile hydraulic jack, since it illiminates a lot of steps... One don't even have to get out of drivers seat to check if fluid is through...
In my case 10 pushes of pedal was more than enough for rears and 5 for fronts. You only have to warry about fluid reservouar.
I used about .75L of Super Blue and it could be less if I'd only pump till blue appears. But I bleed it way longer, probably flushed it twice, actually.
So do you guys see anything wrong with this method?
Last edited by Vlad; 05-05-2004 at 05:40 AM.
05-05-2004, 08:07 AM
#3
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I probably would have done it that way, and if the pedal feels firm then I would say you are OK, the only way of air getting in would have been if you didn't keep the reservoir filled as you bled the system.
05-05-2004, 08:30 AM
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Get you a few of these, and that's all you need. I've used these on my personal cars several times and recommended them for quite a few people too. Everyone has been able to bleed the brakes all by themselves and with no issues at all.
http://www.speedbleeders.com/
http://www.speedbleeders.com/
05-05-2004, 08:42 AM
#5
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Originally posted by westpak
I probably would have done it that way, and if the pedal feels firm then I would say you are OK, the only way of air getting in would have been if you didn't keep the reservoir filled as you bled the system.
I probably would have done it that way, and if the pedal feels firm then I would say you are OK, the only way of air getting in would have been if you didn't keep the reservoir filled as you bled the system.
05-05-2004, 08:48 AM
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Originally posted by Trent@MVP
Get you a few of these, and that's all you need. I've used these on my personal cars several times and recommended them for quite a few people too. Everyone has been able to bleed the brakes all by themselves and with no issues at all.
http://www.speedbleeders.com/
Get you a few of these, and that's all you need. I've used these on my personal cars several times and recommended them for quite a few people too. Everyone has been able to bleed the brakes all by themselves and with no issues at all.
http://www.speedbleeders.com/
Also it took some sick mind to make bleeder nuts different sizes front and rear. I couldn'f find small enough key for the rear, so had to use adjusting key wich was a pain.
05-05-2004, 09:45 AM
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Originally posted by Vlad
Pedal doesn't feel that firm... If pressed on low speed it makes FSSS- and go soft first... Umh... quite like it did before. I expected firmer feel. I'm totally sure no air did get into the system from both sides... what do I do to fix soft pedal?
Pedal doesn't feel that firm... If pressed on low speed it makes FSSS- and go soft first... Umh... quite like it did before. I expected firmer feel. I'm totally sure no air did get into the system from both sides... what do I do to fix soft pedal?
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05-05-2004, 07:46 PM
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Stoptech lines are $150 from CZP
I just did pads, fluid, and ATE fluid.
I documented my steps here
http://350zmotoring.com/forums/showt...&threadid=9057
SS lines aren't going to help with pedal feel much on a new car.. the new hoses just don't really flex that much under normal conditions.
I just did pads, fluid, and ATE fluid.
I documented my steps here
http://350zmotoring.com/forums/showt...&threadid=9057
SS lines aren't going to help with pedal feel much on a new car.. the new hoses just don't really flex that much under normal conditions.
05-06-2004, 12:40 PM
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Originally posted by Vlad
Probably that's what we have stock? Because fluid only seem to go one direction - out.
Also it took some sick mind to make bleeder nuts different sizes front and rear. I couldn'f find small enough key for the rear, so had to use adjusting key wich was a pain.
Probably that's what we have stock? Because fluid only seem to go one direction - out.
Also it took some sick mind to make bleeder nuts different sizes front and rear. I couldn'f find small enough key for the rear, so had to use adjusting key wich was a pain.
05-06-2004, 02:31 PM
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I still think that the SS brake lines will help - I only drove my car one day before I swapped the brakes for the StopTech kit and SS lines all around but I felt a substantial difference in feel.
Regarding speed bleeders - I've heard that they are not as reliable as regular valves (leaking, etc...). I'm not sure I would want to go there. You can always get a one-man pressure bleeder system if you like.
However, the approach that you chose can work, it's just that you have to be careful that you do it quickly, that the tube is firmly on the valve and that there is no trapped air anywhere in the system. Most ppl don't do it this way because of those risks, but I'll admit I've done it once or twice when in a hurry.
Also, while my brake pedal is pretty firm, there is something going on in the Z's brake system that makes it somewhat inconsistent. I get pad knockback going around some corners on tracks (or riding curbs) that cause the initial pedal travel to go from virtually nil in some corners to an inch or two in others. On the plus side this is predictable once you get used to it. I'm also thinking there may not be enough master cylinder volume in some cases which requires a quick pedal pump when something like the pad-knockback happens. In some situations on the street I have inconsistent initial travel and I can't tell exactly if it is pad knockback, master cylinder volume issues or insufficient vacuum (or a combination).
Sorry, this is isn't super helpful, but I don't know yet what exactly is going on with the brakes and I've sort of let it go because other than this minor inconsistency my brakes are now rock-solid at the track.
Regarding speed bleeders - I've heard that they are not as reliable as regular valves (leaking, etc...). I'm not sure I would want to go there. You can always get a one-man pressure bleeder system if you like.
However, the approach that you chose can work, it's just that you have to be careful that you do it quickly, that the tube is firmly on the valve and that there is no trapped air anywhere in the system. Most ppl don't do it this way because of those risks, but I'll admit I've done it once or twice when in a hurry.
Also, while my brake pedal is pretty firm, there is something going on in the Z's brake system that makes it somewhat inconsistent. I get pad knockback going around some corners on tracks (or riding curbs) that cause the initial pedal travel to go from virtually nil in some corners to an inch or two in others. On the plus side this is predictable once you get used to it. I'm also thinking there may not be enough master cylinder volume in some cases which requires a quick pedal pump when something like the pad-knockback happens. In some situations on the street I have inconsistent initial travel and I can't tell exactly if it is pad knockback, master cylinder volume issues or insufficient vacuum (or a combination).
Sorry, this is isn't super helpful, but I don't know yet what exactly is going on with the brakes and I've sort of let it go because other than this minor inconsistency my brakes are now rock-solid at the track.
05-06-2004, 02:56 PM
#16
Jason, I've experienced a similar pedal feel at the track. Never at Blackhawk, nor at Road America, but at Gingerman, yes.......
My best guess is that running WOT, the power brake system doesn't have enough time to build the vacuum assist needed.
Since my brakes work fine at some tracks, I find it suspicious that pad kickback is the issue.
My best guess is that running WOT, the power brake system doesn't have enough time to build the vacuum assist needed.
Since my brakes work fine at some tracks, I find it suspicious that pad kickback is the issue.
05-07-2004, 12:46 PM
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If you don't want air to enter the master cyclinder, you must keep the fluid level above mid point while bleeding. This makes it hard if you want to completely rid the old brake fluid. All you get is a mix of old and the topped off new fluid. My question is what do you think if I bleed more fluid at the expense of getting to air in? Once the reservoir is almost empty, I can add the new fluid and them bleed each line until all air is gone. Is this overkill or not necessary ?
05-13-2004, 03:09 PM
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Originally posted by Trent@MVP
Get you a few of these, and that's all you need. I've used these on my personal cars several times and recommended them for quite a few people too. Everyone has been able to bleed the brakes all by themselves and with no issues at all.
http://www.speedbleeders.com/
Get you a few of these, and that's all you need. I've used these on my personal cars several times and recommended them for quite a few people too. Everyone has been able to bleed the brakes all by themselves and with no issues at all.
http://www.speedbleeders.com/
05-13-2004, 03:14 PM
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Originally posted by Trent@MVP
Get you a few of these, and that's all you need. I've used these on my personal cars several times and recommended them for quite a few people too. Everyone has been able to bleed the brakes all by themselves and with no issues at all.
http://www.speedbleeders.com/
Get you a few of these, and that's all you need. I've used these on my personal cars several times and recommended them for quite a few people too. Everyone has been able to bleed the brakes all by themselves and with no issues at all.
http://www.speedbleeders.com/
05-13-2004, 05:11 PM
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Originally posted by mberthia
If you don't want air to enter the master cyclinder, you must keep the fluid level above mid point while bleeding. This makes it hard if you want to completely rid the old brake fluid. All you get is a mix of old and the topped off new fluid. My question is what do you think if I bleed more fluid at the expense of getting to air in? Once the reservoir is almost empty, I can add the new fluid and them bleed each line until all air is gone. Is this overkill or not necessary ?
If you don't want air to enter the master cyclinder, you must keep the fluid level above mid point while bleeding. This makes it hard if you want to completely rid the old brake fluid. All you get is a mix of old and the topped off new fluid. My question is what do you think if I bleed more fluid at the expense of getting to air in? Once the reservoir is almost empty, I can add the new fluid and them bleed each line until all air is gone. Is this overkill or not necessary ?
For the one man job, I use a Mity Vac vacuum pump. Not as good as a 2-man bleeding job, but suffices for me.
Michael.