that's insannnne. sooo big. i want i want

 

GQ,
That's completely untrue. 1. We use a squeeze forge method for our ST-40. 2. Also, our new ST-22 rear caliper is a billet aluminum caliper. 3. Our calipers are the stiffest in the industry, bar none. We've done the testing to prove it: http://stoptech.com/technical/calipe...ctionchart.htm

 

Unfortunately, that graph is already outdated. Its also a moot point when you consider the fact that you still need large spacers for many applications regardless of what wheel is being used.

 

Discussing stiffness based on material construction alone is a moot point. The overall design of the caliper, including the orientation of the bolts holding the caliper together, the number of pieces in the caliper (2 piece or monoblock), the existence of a bridge, the overall length of the caliper, etc. all factor into the stiffness. Materials used in the construction are only one small piece of the puzzle.

You are familiar with the S2000 market, and that's why you say this. It is true that our brakes are tough to squeeze behind most wheels on an S2000. However, the reality is that the S2000 has the most ridiculous wheel fitment/crazy offsets of anything out there. There isn't a whole lot that will fit them!

As for the 350z (which is most relevant to the discussion here), our 332mm kits fit the stock 350Z 17's, and our 355mm kit fits both types of stock 18" wheels (performance and track). Many, many aftermarket 350Z wheels also fit. The same is true on many of our kits for other platforms as well.

 

I didnt mean to get in a battle over material stiffness and strength. All thing being equal, forging is stronger than casting.

And J, when I spoke to you at the Performance Nissan meet earlier this year, I asked you if the calipers were forged, and you told me that you used a squeze forging technique...and from the context of our discussion, I got the idea that you arent machining the front calipers out of a solid block of billet AL. Has something changed since then? That is the information I was making my comments about.

Also, what exactly is squeeze forged? I thought forging is when you take a solid block of metal and heat it up, and then essentially stamp out your caliper. (overly simplified..I know).

If your calipers are CNC machined from billet aluminum, then my bad...

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by J Ritt
[B]Discussing stiffness based on material construction alone is a moot point. The overall design of the caliper, including the orientation of the bolts holding the caliper together, the number of pieces in the caliper (2 piece or monoblock), the existence of a bridge, the overall length of the caliper, etc. all factor into the stiffness. Materials used in the construction are only one small piece of the puzzle.

Exactly, which is why all the calipers we use are 2 piece that also contain a center bridge bolt. The center bridge bolt also acts as a pad retainer which makes pad swaps extremely easy.

You are familiar with the S2000 market, and that's why you say this. It is true that our brakes are tough to squeeze behind most wheels on an S2000. However, the reality is that the S2000 has the most ridiculous wheel fitment/crazy offsets of anything out there. There isn't a whole lot that will fit them!

As a matter of fact, I wasnt even considering the S2000. I just recently finished doing a new big brake kit for the new Mini Coopers when I came across a guy who purchased your kit. The car was up on blocks because his new Volk LE37s barely cleared the brakes with a 6mm spacer. Normally, a 6mm spacer would not be THAT big of a change in offset but when you consider that the you guys also use a thicker section on the hat of the rotor, that 6mm quickly becomes closer to 8 or 9mm.

A 16mm-18mm change in front offset is large enough to effect suspension geometry. This was measured with a Volk wheel which is known for its brake caliper clearance. I cant imagine what its like with other wheels. How many other of your kits do you guys make the hats thicker than the OEM rotor?

 

Doc...hahah...that's funny...the Mini is actually the single worst platform besides the S2000. Fortunately, we have a ton of customers that still want our brakes despite the wheel fit issue on their minis. In fact, there's a whole spec mini race series that uses our brakes out in Arizona.

Also, a bolt is a far cry from a bolt-in bridge in terms of strength and stiffness.

GQ...not starting any battles...I just wanted to be clear that there are many factors involved in caliper stiffness, and that you can't make a statement based on material composition alone. Here's a blurb on Squeeze forging...also known as semi-solid casting which became more publicized by SSR Wheels. Our ST-40 and upcoming ST-60 calipers are made this way. Our new rear 2 piston and monster 8 piston are a billet design.

Semi-solid casting of metal alloys is a production process that is increasingly being used to produce high quality aluminium alloy components for structural applications. The process involves reheating feedstock slugs that have a fine non-dendritic microstructure obtained by continuous casting of round bars under the effect of electromagnetic stirring. At a suitable temperature in the semi-solid state, the alloy is injected into a die much the same way as in pressure die casting. However, the viscosity is higher and the injection speed is much lower than in conventional pressure die casting, resulting in no or little turbulence during die filling. It is thus possible to cast components that have practically no porosity.
-Industrial Materials Institute of Canada

 

"Semi-solid casting of metal alloys is a production process that is increasingly being used to produce high quality aluminium alloy components for structural applications. The process involves reheating feedstock slugs that have a fine non-dendritic microstructure obtained by continuous casting of round bars under the effect of electromagnetic stirring. At a suitable temperature in the semi-solid state, the alloy is injected into a die much the same way as in pressure die casting. However, the viscosity is higher and the injection speed is much lower than in conventional pressure die casting, resulting in no or little turbulence during die filling. It is thus possible to cast components that have practically no porosity.
-Industrial Materials Institute of Canada"

You learn something new everyday Very interesting info...J Ritt.

Zquicksilver
Product Designer

 

Back on topic. Those Wilwood brakes look great! Looks like i've found what brakes i'm going with, Stoptech, Rotora, and the others just weren't going to cut it for me.

 

Im obviously aware that a simple bolt is not a bridge, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt that you knew what I was talking about. As you can see in this pic, its not just a simple bolt. As you can also see, that s all you need to remove to swap pads, taking the wheel off is the most difficult part.


gq_626, Forging is def stronger than casting. In fact, our less expensive 350Z set up uses a forged 4 piston caliper. Click on the link for a better explanation of the forging process in English.

Wilwood Forged 4 Piston


Here is a pic of the forged 4 piston under a 19" Volk wheel.

 

They not only look great, but they work even better. Our philosophy from day 1 has always been "Form Follows Function"

When your ready, give Jeff at Evolution a buzz, I know he will be glad to take care of you

 

what about if I just want the front brake kit instead? How much would that be?

 

The front kit is $1750 and they are available now. You can give us a call at the shop on Monday and I can place your order.

Thank you

Jeff - Evolution
703.961.9090

 

Nice! and what about the 4 pistons front kit only? How much would that be? I will definitely give you a shout when I'm ready!

 

I had to use a spacer for ap-racing big brake kit for most of my wheels. Is this bad in any way?

 

Will the stock 350z brake booster handle the big brake kit or will it require a more powerful booster?

thx

 

You not only dont need a different booster, but you use your stock master cylinder as well.

All of our kits are designed to work with the OEM hydraulics without the use of proportioning valves or residual valves. All while maintaining a positive pedal feel with increased modulation and excellent front to rear balance.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DocofMind
[B]You not only dont need a different booster, but you use your stock master cylinder as well.

Wow, that's awesome! These brakes are much more affordable than most of the other big name brands. Love the looks too. THanks for the reply.