Drifting 101 - a guide/insight to drifting the z
11-19-2008 | 01:29 PM
#21
reason why it is + to change your diff oil after every event, because our VLSD is based on the diff oil's viscousity, and when the LSD wears off and heats up, the viscousity goes down, and the oil gets lighter, then ur LSD keeps slipping, and you have no control of two wheels in the back. changing ur oil everytime, will reduce the wearing issue of the LSD, and keep the pumpkin clean.
11-19-2008 | 01:32 PM
#22
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 11,204
Likes: 29
From: San Antonio/I miss DFW, TX
HYDRO EBRAKE SET UP.
THIS THREAD HAS SOME GOOD INFO ON THE SUBJECT. Considering some pro drifters chimed in on this thread too.....(topics II, Blake@braille....)
https://my350z.com/forum/drift/28106...o-e-brake.html
THIRD PIC:
Okay, the third pic is the ABS brake block, in here is where all the ABS magic happens.
If you open up your drivers side brake access door and remove the plastic trimmings you can have super clear access to this ALUMINUM BLOCK.
on top you will see RR, RL, FL, FR. Front and Rear - Left and Right. as you can see they are criss crossed. Providing cross braking through the ABS system.
SOooo.:
That means to effectively have a hydro E-brake set up your gonna have to loose your ABS system........
More on this to come as i will study the lines and the abs electrical system and provide how to install.
- J
https://my350z.com/forum/drift/28106...o-e-brake.html
THIRD PIC:
Okay, the third pic is the ABS brake block, in here is where all the ABS magic happens.
If you open up your drivers side brake access door and remove the plastic trimmings you can have super clear access to this ALUMINUM BLOCK.
on top you will see RR, RL, FL, FR. Front and Rear - Left and Right. as you can see they are criss crossed. Providing cross braking through the ABS system.
SOooo.:
That means to effectively have a hydro E-brake set up your gonna have to loose your ABS system........
More on this to come as i will study the lines and the abs electrical system and provide how to install.
- J
Last edited by JasonZ-YA; 11-20-2008 at 07:28 AM.
11-19-2008 | 01:32 PM
#23
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 11,204
Likes: 29
From: San Antonio/I miss DFW, TX
STAGING BRAKE FOR DISC BRAKES - CNCBRAKES.COM:
http://www.cncbrakes.com/hsb.asp?grp...412&subseries=
WILWOOD:
Compact Remote Master Cylinder:
http://www.wilwood.com/Products/006-...RRMC/index.asp
LEVER STYLE PROPORTIONING VALVES:
http://www.wilwood.com/Products/006-...1-PV/index.asp
http://www.wilwood.com/PDF/ds489.pdf
- j
http://www.cncbrakes.com/hsb.asp?grp...412&subseries=
WILWOOD:
Compact Remote Master Cylinder:
http://www.wilwood.com/Products/006-...RRMC/index.asp
LEVER STYLE PROPORTIONING VALVES:
http://www.wilwood.com/Products/006-...1-PV/index.asp
http://www.wilwood.com/PDF/ds489.pdf
- j
Last edited by JasonZ-YA; 11-20-2008 at 06:34 AM.
11-20-2008 | 09:44 AM
#27
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 213
Likes: 0
From: Georgia
wow, i didnt know the hydro e-brake was so complex. when they installed it on drifting.com (link in hydro e-brake thread) they made it seem so easy. i wasnt aware that we needed a master cylinder and all of those other things. I thought that all i needed was a staging brake and some hardlines
11-20-2008 | 10:25 AM
#28
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 11,204
Likes: 29
From: San Antonio/I miss DFW, TX
wow, i didnt know the hydro e-brake was so complex. when they installed it on drifting.com (link in hydro e-brake thread) they made it seem so easy. i wasnt aware that we needed a master cylinder and all of those other things. I thought that all i needed was a staging brake and some hardlines
You do the exact same thing on the Z except:
You have to "Y" the two factory lines together to one --- Once they are one line then --- to the stagging brake ----- then out the staging break ------ "T" back again to TWO lines --- each to the two rear wheels.......
once you do that! you will no longer have a working abs system!
REASON WHY - abs wont work anymore:
The 350Z uses cross braking abs...so when it feels slip on the drivers side rear it provides brake to the Passenger Rear and Drivers side front to "AID" in no "SLIP"....
thats when the SLIP light and stuff come on in the Z dash (Z with vdc/tcs equipped).
get it?
- j
11-20-2008 | 10:25 AM
#29
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 11,204
Likes: 29
From: San Antonio/I miss DFW, TX
PICTURES 1, 2 AND 3 ON POST 22:
shows how this can be set up....
that actual car is set up another way...i can explain it if someone cares for me too..
shows how this can be set up....
that actual car is set up another way...i can explain it if someone cares for me too..
Last edited by JasonZ-YA; 11-20-2008 at 10:29 AM.
11-20-2008 | 01:01 PM
#30
NUMBER 5 - STEEL BRAIDED BRAKE LINES:
Well, you can make this one number 5 or you can make it number 1 on your list.....
Here is why: When you drift, you wear the tires to a point where you can possibly "CHORD" the tires......
you can wear long skinny strips of tire that flap around and slap the inside of the fender well.......its a distinctive sound..... AT TIMES, the chords will get wrapped around the rear spindle, (brake lines
) etc....that being said, if you snag an OEM RUBBER brake line, your gonna be sad.... and driving the Z home can be dangerous considering you have a brake line busted or leaking....
So bring some heavy duty wire cutters to cut way chords in between drift runs....
"crZydave" can vouch for me on this, as he saw me cutting away chords from my rear wheel area at my last drift event.
TIRE BUYING:
I go to mom and pop tire shops with a buddy and a truck.....Don't take the Z as they will not give you a deal if you show up in a Z.....if they ask what car its going on, i tell them a 95 mustang...LOL...
When you buy in bulk you save!
I typically roll up to a tire shop and have money (CASH!) to purchase at least 4 tires!
At first they see if your an idiot and tell you "50 dollars a tire" and then i literally laugh in their face and tell them, "no way"....flash some cash and then tell them 25 a tire........or ill go elsewhere.
Usually i pay 20-30 bucks a tire....
I have a laundry list of places i drive too.....
I inspect every tire closely and make sure there are no plugs/patches, etc...and at least 6/32 thread still on them or more........
"crZydave" can vouch for this too, as he saw my spare tires at the event and flipped out that i got them for 20 bucks each that time......
Well, you can make this one number 5 or you can make it number 1 on your list.....
Here is why: When you drift, you wear the tires to a point where you can possibly "CHORD" the tires......
you can wear long skinny strips of tire that flap around and slap the inside of the fender well.......its a distinctive sound..... AT TIMES, the chords will get wrapped around the rear spindle, (brake lines
) etc....that being said, if you snag an OEM RUBBER brake line, your gonna be sad.... and driving the Z home can be dangerous considering you have a brake line busted or leaking....So bring some heavy duty wire cutters to cut way chords in between drift runs....
"crZydave" can vouch for me on this, as he saw me cutting away chords from my rear wheel area at my last drift event.
TIRE BUYING:
I go to mom and pop tire shops with a buddy and a truck.....Don't take the Z as they will not give you a deal if you show up in a Z.....if they ask what car its going on, i tell them a 95 mustang...LOL...
When you buy in bulk you save!
I typically roll up to a tire shop and have money (CASH!) to purchase at least 4 tires!
At first they see if your an idiot and tell you "50 dollars a tire" and then i literally laugh in their face and tell them, "no way"....flash some cash and then tell them 25 a tire........or ill go elsewhere.
Usually i pay 20-30 bucks a tire....
I have a laundry list of places i drive too.....
I inspect every tire closely and make sure there are no plugs/patches, etc...and at least 6/32 thread still on them or more........
"crZydave" can vouch for this too, as he saw my spare tires at the event and flipped out that i got them for 20 bucks each that time......
Most of the car's tires at the event were in cords at some point during the day. Some would also come apart in big flaps and slap the wheel well.
And $20 bucks a tire? Thats crazy compared to what I just spent for my new daily driver tires on the rear.
Last edited by crZydave; 11-20-2008 at 01:05 PM.
11-20-2008 | 01:20 PM
#31
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 11,204
Likes: 29
From: San Antonio/I miss DFW, TX
Eureka !!!!
OKAY - I THINK I GOT IT!
THIS SET UP SHOULD NOT MESS WITH ABS?
This should work....the remote master cylinders and input from the hydro ebrake handle will provide the braking power to rears!
it will also force fluid back toward the abs unit, but that should be one way valved? shouldn't affect anything right???? --- thats about my only question???
DIAGRAM: 1ST PIC ATTACHED BELOW
WILWOOD TANDEM MASTER CYLINDER - P/N 260-7563: 2ND PIC ATTACHED BELOW
WILWOOD PEDAL ASSEMBLY - P/N 340-1290 3RD PIC ATTACHED BELOW
In this pic you can see where i super imposed (always wanted to do that....lol) the tandem master cylinder and showed my baller 8 ball handle to show how it would be a PULL instead of a push style!??
8 ball:
- J
THIS SET UP SHOULD NOT MESS WITH ABS?
This should work....the remote master cylinders and input from the hydro ebrake handle will provide the braking power to rears!
it will also force fluid back toward the abs unit, but that should be one way valved? shouldn't affect anything right???? --- thats about my only question???
DIAGRAM: 1ST PIC ATTACHED BELOW
WILWOOD TANDEM MASTER CYLINDER - P/N 260-7563: 2ND PIC ATTACHED BELOW
WILWOOD PEDAL ASSEMBLY - P/N 340-1290 3RD PIC ATTACHED BELOW
In this pic you can see where i super imposed (always wanted to do that....lol) the tandem master cylinder and showed my baller 8 ball handle to show how it would be a PULL instead of a push style!??
8 ball:
- J
11-20-2008 | 01:22 PM
#32
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 11,204
Likes: 29
From: San Antonio/I miss DFW, TX
Now, i know i know, just disable the abs.........which everyone else does......and believe me, im not one for trying to stay in warranty or any of that crap-o-la, but today was very slow at work, so i started reading the abs system section in the service manual, then the brake section, then i started searching online and wilwood web site had all the answers!
-J
-J
11-20-2008 | 01:43 PM
#33
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 11,204
Likes: 29
From: San Antonio/I miss DFW, TX
most people think buying tires at a tire shop is bad! I use them for drifting....so i plan on killing them anyways......
Butt!
1. You can always read the code and see how old they are!
2. Inspect them for plugs
3. Inspect them for patches.
4. - go kill them at the drift event!
WHERE DO THE TIRES COME FROM:
1. You have to remember, most of the tires come from used tire distributors........What do you think happens to tires that are 8000 miles old (just an example) and the owner decides to sell/trade in his car...
the dealership has to make it a certified used car right! meaning they have to put new tires on it.....
2. What do you think happens to tires that are 8000 miles old (another example) and the driver totals their car!
yup, the junk yard ends up with it and the tires go off to the distributors again and onto the racks of used tire shops...
I mean, c-mon - when was the last time you went to a junk yard and found tires on ANY of the cars there!
-j
11-21-2008 | 06:27 AM
#34
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 11,204
Likes: 29
From: San Antonio/I miss DFW, TX
Option #2
Hi,
okay, here's another option. easier way to do this. It only required one more "T" or "Y" fitting.
MOST IMPORTANTLY - THIS SINGLE MASTER CYLINDER USES A SMALLER 5/8 BORE OVER THE ONE ABOVE WITH A 1 INCH BORE -
SOooo.: That means it will be easier to pull back and not require as long of a handle.
by my calculations you would need at least a 16 inch handle - 8 ball and all...lol
DIAGRAM #2 - 1ST PIC ADDED BELOW:
WILWOOD SINGLE REMOTE RESERVOIR MASTER CYLINDER - P/N 260-10371 - shown in 2nd pic below with lever and 8 ball...lol...:
WILWOOD PEDAL ASSY - P/N 340-1290 - 3RD PIC ADDED BELOW:
*** Important - Its best you take a look at the pedal assy and how its built, i show two handle options because you would have to cut/notch out the top of the wilwood pedal assy in order for the pic of the handle on the right to work versus the pic on the left.
pic of handle on the LEFT is a handle with two arms coming forward so you wont have to cut the pedal assy.
4th pic shows the remote mounts and the dimension of tanks and master cylinder body - I like this one because its very small!!!
OH YEAH.:
WILWOOD SINGLE REMOTE RESERVOIR MASTER CYLINDER - P/N 260-10371 ONLY COST $81 BUCKS with both reservoirs and remote mounts and all.
UPDATE: pic number 4:
I just added the LAST two pics. Taken from courtesy parts dot com parts fish online.
It would be nice to have a fitting to replace the "to engine bay fitting" (46313) with one we can splice into...might be a better option to replace that guy with two "Y" fittings or two "tee" fittings.
Another update: Confirmed - This oem fitting 46313 - uses 10mm fittings. So source "Tee" or "Y" parts that have 10mm fittings and if you use 3/16 lines (typical) purchase (10mm to 3/16) adapter fittings..Autozone sells sections of brake line with M10x1.0 ends already on them, they are labeled as brake lines for "ASIAN" cars.
also, the only unknown is if the master cyclinder will hold any backflow pressure for when the normal cars brakes are being applied. If you find that is a problem, weather you buy the wilwood master or any other master, then you will have to plum inline a flow valve one way like this:
http://www.chicane23store.com/index....ducts_id=14684
-J
okay, here's another option. easier way to do this. It only required one more "T" or "Y" fitting.
MOST IMPORTANTLY - THIS SINGLE MASTER CYLINDER USES A SMALLER 5/8 BORE OVER THE ONE ABOVE WITH A 1 INCH BORE -
SOooo.: That means it will be easier to pull back and not require as long of a handle.
by my calculations you would need at least a 16 inch handle - 8 ball and all...lol
DIAGRAM #2 - 1ST PIC ADDED BELOW:
WILWOOD SINGLE REMOTE RESERVOIR MASTER CYLINDER - P/N 260-10371 - shown in 2nd pic below with lever and 8 ball...lol...:
WILWOOD PEDAL ASSY - P/N 340-1290 - 3RD PIC ADDED BELOW:
*** Important - Its best you take a look at the pedal assy and how its built, i show two handle options because you would have to cut/notch out the top of the wilwood pedal assy in order for the pic of the handle on the right to work versus the pic on the left.
pic of handle on the LEFT is a handle with two arms coming forward so you wont have to cut the pedal assy.
4th pic shows the remote mounts and the dimension of tanks and master cylinder body - I like this one because its very small!!!
OH YEAH.:
WILWOOD SINGLE REMOTE RESERVOIR MASTER CYLINDER - P/N 260-10371 ONLY COST $81 BUCKS with both reservoirs and remote mounts and all.
UPDATE: pic number 4:
I just added the LAST two pics. Taken from courtesy parts dot com parts fish online.
It would be nice to have a fitting to replace the "to engine bay fitting" (46313) with one we can splice into...might be a better option to replace that guy with two "Y" fittings or two "tee" fittings.
Another update: Confirmed - This oem fitting 46313 - uses 10mm fittings. So source "Tee" or "Y" parts that have 10mm fittings and if you use 3/16 lines (typical) purchase (10mm to 3/16) adapter fittings..Autozone sells sections of brake line with M10x1.0 ends already on them, they are labeled as brake lines for "ASIAN" cars.
also, the only unknown is if the master cyclinder will hold any backflow pressure for when the normal cars brakes are being applied. If you find that is a problem, weather you buy the wilwood master or any other master, then you will have to plum inline a flow valve one way like this:
http://www.chicane23store.com/index....ducts_id=14684
-J
Last edited by JasonZ-YA; 10-07-2010 at 10:42 AM.
11-21-2008 | 06:28 AM
#35
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 11,204
Likes: 29
From: San Antonio/I miss DFW, TX
PEDAL ASSEMBLY:
PEDAL ASSY:
Now if you look at the picture of the pedal assembly you can see that it provides a 7 to 1 ratio. - thats used as a foot pedal and obviously you have more strength in your legs.
So, you would need more like a 9 to 1 ratio for a handle activated use. that being said the easiest thing to do is to beat the 12.65 inches shown in the pic and increase it to about 16 inch long handle - 8 ball and all and you should be okay!
OR.:
you can eliminate the purchasing the pedal assy and make your own mount and pivot with a longer throw to gain a higher 9 to 1 ratio.
MOUNTING:
You can mount where ever you like, you can do off the side of the tranny tunnel like the one pictured in post 22, either passenger or drivers side.
I think i would like to cut straight into the center console and mount.
-J
Now if you look at the picture of the pedal assembly you can see that it provides a 7 to 1 ratio. - thats used as a foot pedal and obviously you have more strength in your legs.
So, you would need more like a 9 to 1 ratio for a handle activated use. that being said the easiest thing to do is to beat the 12.65 inches shown in the pic and increase it to about 16 inch long handle - 8 ball and all and you should be okay!
OR.:
you can eliminate the purchasing the pedal assy and make your own mount and pivot with a longer throw to gain a higher 9 to 1 ratio.
MOUNTING:
You can mount where ever you like, you can do off the side of the tranny tunnel like the one pictured in post 22, either passenger or drivers side.
I think i would like to cut straight into the center console and mount.
-J
12-02-2008 | 12:56 PM
#37
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 11,204
Likes: 29
From: San Antonio/I miss DFW, TX
12-02-2008 | 01:04 PM
#39
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 11,204
Likes: 29
From: San Antonio/I miss DFW, TX
12-02-2008 | 01:09 PM
#40
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 11,204
Likes: 29
From: San Antonio/I miss DFW, TX
the diagram shows from abs block unit back to rear brakes only..........front brakes would be two separate lines from the front of the abs block out to each front wheel.....im not taping into those...