Xeinth, I think you may have over analyzed the product.
lol since everyone for the most part that is a capacitor, that’s what I was trying to prove that it had a sound theory behind it. From what I have seen it did make the light brighter on a few older cars ect. I don’t know the measure of the true effects because I don't own a Capacitor capacitance meter.

Ricky aka rs/377 is all upset because I schooled him in basic electronics on a private forum.

"RS/377- journeyman electrician, six months shy of a c10 license"
Sorry excuse for an electrician. I can open class for you one more time.

It’s apparent most people don’t understand how car charging systems work. Well you have your battery to start with which is used to start the car (major function lol) well when the engines starts running the alternator starts running. At this point the alternator produces 13.4v at 60amp on average… which is kept steady by an internal regulator in the alternator. The battery is no there to fill in the current gaps so the alternator doesn’t burn out the regulator over working itself. That’s why when your battery goes bad the alternator usually goes with it or vise versa.

Let’s say your headlights take up 10 amps, ignition 15, radio 5, and interior lighting 5, and misc. ECU, ABS, sensors... 15 amps.

10 amps Head lights
15 amps Ignition
5 amps Interior Lamps
5 amps Radio
15 amps misc.

Adds up to 50 amps. This leaves 10 amps to make up for any other small loads. Since heat and weather are a factor for producing amperage. Now if u add some fancy fog light which are around 30 amps. Now your alternator isn’t producing enough to keep your car happy headlights get dimmer less power for engine all around and it only get worse depending on what other items you add to your ride indash-tv’s, amps for your stereo, upgraded fuel pump, electric water pump list goes on. This is where a capacitor comes into play. You would add one to stabilize the cars power system. I remember when I was first getting into mobile audio video I installed a slamin stereo pioneer deck, door speakers, rear speakers crossover 3 10” subs 4x100 amp and a 800 watt amp 600rms I think which would suck about 40 amps from the car when cranked it up. When I came to stop lights the car would shut off lol. After a while I got tired of it and spent the money for a cap. (Me being cheap lol) Once the cap was add it provided the additional amperage need to sustain my charging system. I don’t doubt the dps can and does help out with extra minor electrical loads.

There is no magical magnetic field only the on created between the two plates in a capacitor electrons wanting to get from one end to the other but can't. As far as a reverse current it comes from the capacitor since it’s not a battery. think of it as throwing a ball in the air the force and energy it takes to throw a ball in the air pushes the ball until there’s no more force (all charged up), then there's a break in power, so then the ball comes back down..

Even made u a picture to help you out Dave.

I don’t even know if the translation on the dps site is correct so I would count on what you read to be 100%. I know there was a lot of bs on the American site but we all know who to thank for that.

 

See what i mean guys? you can beat him across the face with good, solid tech, and he will continually envoke elementary concepts that prove nothing and insist all the while that he is taking you to school. His version of taking RS/377 to school on the private board was cutting and pasting info on capacitors from HowStuffworks.com. I'll let you guys deal with him here, as you guys are more than capable, and unlike paris, i'm not going to paste the same post on two different BBS's. Enjoy.


Dave

 

Tell me how this "class" has any bearing on the fact that the DPS system is a scam? Thanks for the class, I don't care. I know what a capacitor does, because guess what.... I am also trained in electronics. I don't appreciate being talked down to. Have a nice day.

 

ryans = Paris

 

They prolly have the same IP, because paris uses Ryans computer alot. Ryan owns www.sromagazine.com/boards and paris works for him. Ryan was pushing the DPS.

 

Actually, no. They may be posting from the same IP, but thats because they work at the same place. Ryan knows better than to stick his head where it doesn't belong. Paris on the other hand, is, like Dave said a pompous *** who can't see that he's already lost the battle 10 fold.

 

Yeah I remember a quote on the DPS website. It said something like. "The most eagerly awaited part from Japan in 10 years" - SRO Magazine.

Obviously Paris has something to gain by trying to make it seem like the box he was selling wasn't a total ripoff.

 

Hey Paris, stick to your own website and hawk your fraudulent products there. We ain't buying it. @ss

 

Paris:

The characteristic impedance of a line is given by Z0 = sqrt(L/C), where L is the inductance, and C is the capacitance. In addition, using known electromagnetic properties of a material: the permeability (magnetic/u0) and permitivity (electric e0), we also know from Maxwel that Z0= sqrt(u0/e0).

Thus, we can look up the permtivity and permability of copper and get a good guess to the capacitance of a line. While thickness can play a roll in DC scenarios, at AC frequencies the thicker wire makes little difference (due to the skin effect). Thus l/c = u0/e0, and for 50 ohm line, l/c = u0/e0 = 50.

Based on this, we can guestimate about 20-100pf MAX per foot. These wires are about 1/2 that. So we are talking about less than 100pf of capacitance. For the non engineer, thats .0000000001F. That is IRRELEVANT. The length of the battery cable has a bigger impact.

Interestingly this has gotten me thinking about the ultimate grounding kit...

Andy,

Actually, I take that back about the foil. At 100Mhz, that foil is close to invisible. I need to calculate the skin depth to know for sure.

I think skin depth is given by c/(4*pi^2*sigma*u0*f), so that would be about 1*10-3m at 100Mhz, or 1mm. So ya, it would provide some shielding =). It would have to be about 2.5mm to give 10db of shielding.

X

 

Hey Jesse, notice how many new members with 1 or very few posts in this thread that are defending DPS. Me thinks they from DPS trying to crawl around.

 

It's so obvious that I'm embarassed for him. We should all go over on SRO and flame them for selling a fraudulent product. I did a search on SRO and it seems they've kept it pretty quiet over there. I feel like embarassing this moron, but I'll probably get banned pretty quickly and my posts deleted.

 

Okay, so it's a capacitor. Big whoopdidoo. Even a layperson like myself understands that it may store some power. But, how does this extraordinarily simple circuit do anything relevant? A capacitor by itself should do zip, nada, zilch, nothing as far as engine/power management when there is a working 12v battery. Just go buy one of those science project kits from Radio Shack for $20 like we did as kids and this is obvious.

And, talking about Radio Shack, what's to stop someone from buying a $.69 capacitor, an $.89 fuse, some wires, a box and doing the same silly thing for less than a few bucks instead of a couple hundred?

The idea that this thing does anything is just plain nonsense. And, you've said nothing to prove this piece of junk is anything more than a scam.

 

Yes it's true. I have an office with quite a few computers hooked up to the router. Paris uses his own computer here. If you notice i'm not logging out.

First of all, Paris was against me even working with this product. He can say I told you so to my face. He told me so. He never took an interest in this product until just a few days ago when we have our private chat on SRO. RS/377 jumped over here for some reason.

2ndly I backed out of selling this product before anything got off the ground. I didn't make the website, I didn't quote that quote. I only registered the name and I hosted on my hosting company.

3rdly I did a press release on it. As with any new product that seems like it works I'll do a press release if i'm ask too.

4thly, I helped out Tako on some things when he needed my help. Please don't give him a bad face, I'd like to stay friends with him. I had asked him about the product since he was in Japan. Unfortunetly he did not know about it. Tako was even a moderator on SRO for a little while.

 

I have never said go buy the dps. You can come and chat all you like over at sro of course the dps is a scam because it way over priced if it was like 40 bucks I'd say go for it.. you can get a 1 farad cap for 50 bucks.. The post was not ment for you or Xeinth it was ment to dave and Ricky... because here is were we are having and open discussion. In theory the dps works and thats all I've been discussing. So there's no reason to make it personal. The reason Nick, Lt What, RS/377 are over here crying and talkin trash because I have power over them on SRO but over here they can get out of pocket like some trick on broadway. SRO didn't sell the dps because I didn't like it from the start. That why everything went to Igor and Sam because I advised Ryan that its a bad investment..

Xeinth
from what I can tell these are older version of the dps spent over to make a fast buck. Guess the newer ones are larger and have more wire and foil inside.. On any note why not build one and test it, I would mind seeing what numbers you come up with.


"The most eagerly awaited part from Japan in 10 years" - SRO Magazine.

That was no quote from sro it was some bs created by sam..

 

Paris,

Adding more wire wont help at all:

If you made the wire long enough to equal 1 farad of capacitance, it would be about 10 million kilometers long. Thats around the world about 231 times, and it would take about 33 seconds for the engine to start once you turned the ignition.

Further, you couldnt loop it around, as that would create an inductor that would resonate with the capacitance, it would need to be straightned out past the moon.

I might save that project for the weekend, let you know the results on monday.

X

 

Quite the oppisite addin more wire would increase the capicty of the capicator not much but something on small scale. Loops at the end of a positvely charged wire would not create an inductor since an inductor is a complete circuit with a current traveling through a coil of wire. A capacitor stores energy in the form of an electrostatic field(dps), while an inductor uses a magnetic field. I realize its a silly depate but it's what make the internet fun. Even if I am found to be wrong then so be at least I've learned something...


By the way I did mobile audio video for two years and a Ford Electrical systems tech for an additional two years..

 

Paris, your condecending tone is not called for, particularly in light of how poor your understanding of electronics seems to be. The DPS does not work and does NOT have sound theory behind it. Every time you defend it you simply expose yourself as either uneducated in these matters or as someone with some sort of vested interest in this product.

The capacitance of the piece of crap is SO small that is can not possibly have ANY of the effects you claim. It is the electrical equivalent of washing your car and claiming to have lightened it for racing. (and then claiming you felt the speed difference)

Also, if the DPS device is supposed to be a capacitor by design, why on Earth would the scammer (umm I mean designer) not simply BUY a capacitor? A capacitor this small and crappy should retail for about 3 cents if you buy a good one.

There is no defending the DPS. It is a scam and the people who support it, praise it, or sell it are helping them scam people. That is really all there is to it. Sorry.

 

I agree.

This means it is more important than ever that we continue to seek them out on the web and scuttle this scam. Now that we know they are trying to scam our hotrodding brethren out of $250 it is a moral imperitive.

I am forming an internet mob! Everybody grab your virtual pitchforks and torches. We must drive this monster from our virtual community!

Now is the time for action! Every time someone buys a DPS "box-o-crap" God kills a kitten!

(but seriously folks, if you see this thing being hawked on the interent send prospective buyers to this thread. Do em a favor.)

 

Count me in...looks like I've been demoderatorized on SRO, guess the powers that be don't like you questioning their judgement

Dave

 

Andy if u had bothered to read you would have seen that I said it was a scam 250 for 20 bucks in parts. You may believe is doesn't work thats your opinion I believe it may do something one way or another. I never write anything off on hear say I like to rely on hard core data. Im going to pick up a dps box from a friend, im going to do a few passes on the dynojet and see what we come up with ect.

As far as my tone, its text, its all good...