my fu&^ing Z is an underpowerd POS :(
hey wait a minute. whats this about fooling the ecu with test pipes. i have test pipes and have yet to trip the cel. (had them on for over a year). if im losing hp then id like to know how i can work around it. i havent heard of having to do this. anyone?
Originally Posted by KWIKZ
rite now i have test pipes and cold air i feel i lost a **** load of low end torque
i dont see how i can make it run rite without some kind of tuning
i dont see how i can make it run rite without some kind of tuning
Originally Posted by MySunset350Z
hey wait a minute. whats this about fooling the ecu with test pipes. i have test pipes and have yet to trip the cel. (had them on for over a year). if im losing hp then id like to know how i can work around it. i havent heard of having to do this. anyone?
there's recently been a long 5 page thread called something like "anyone with experience with TS flash" - something like that
also, there's a 2 year old thread called something like "just got off phone with nissan engineer, cool info"
sorry i don't feel like digging them up
Bottom line is, you need either an EMS to control the ECU, or a way to fool the MAF voltage and O2 sensors - which is what the APEXI AFCII will do along with the common fix used with test pipes with it throwing SES codes - many times people with a lot of breathing mods will throw SES codes - depends on octane and altitude etc too
ok i broke down
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....engineer+phone
and
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....3&page=1&pp=20
here's some highlights pulled from the nissan tech article
everyone always dismisses that thread or doesn't come across it. I think that nissan engineer thread is possibly the greatest NA thread of all. The bolt on parts are there, but if no one does something about the ECU, you won't see the full potential of the mods.
basically the ECU has multiple sensors that the ECU checks with each other. You might fool one, but won't fool another, so the ECU starts changing things around. You need to fool the MAF and O2 sensors. Those are the primary intake and exhaust sensors. Preferably you would get the car tuned with your own wideband O2 sensor so YOU know what the A/F is, but the ECU doesn't actually know what the TRUE A/F is. IF you do it right, it'll think everything is within stock specs when they're really not - you actually have more air, more fuel, and more power going thru the engine...
I'm one of the few people, that really does have EVERY NA mod on my car and am approaching 300whp. I trip a SES light every 2nd time I start the car unless I do the full complete ECU reset from the service manual. The technosquare ECU reflash is quick and good for 2 car starts until it pops the light back on. If I do the nissan ECU reset, then the TS reset, it'll last about 4-5 car restarts before popping up a SES light.
I don't have test pipes, but have a lot of air going thru my car for being NA. In a month, we'll find out if I'm right about the ECU or not...I think I am though because it coincides with everything I've read. I'm expecting to go beyond 300whp within the next 30 days...and that's on 91 octane on the west coast...
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....engineer+phone
and
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....3&page=1&pp=20
here's some highlights pulled from the nissan tech article
He said YOU CANNOT get performance gains with out either reprograming the ecu or faking it by cutting or sodering some wires/circuts and making it think it is running in normal specs. He said thats what aftermarket companies do when they "so called reprogram" the ecu and then charge $1300 bucks for it...(he laughed at that).... He said without faking it would do something about running in fail safe mode which makes it even crapper than stock specs....his example to my dumb *** was like windows 98 running in safe mode when there is a error.
He told me to save my money on the aftermarket mods until the air/fuel mapping info is released.
He said that a K&N won't make that much differences because of the way the 02 computers are run...It would just last longer than a normal airfilter.
He kept on saying the ECM needs to be reprogramed and released...OR cheaply faking out the computer by messing with the o2 sensors.
He told me that a easy way to prove that your aftermarket bolt ons aren't working would be to to run emmission tests before and after...if they are the same then your ECU compensated for the bolt on and just changed the mapping back to normal specs aka no gain OR defaulted to fail safe mode aka loss HP
He said that any mod would have to have the program retuned on the ECM to keep the computer from thinking its running too lean or rich. He said emissions are a big source for finding HP and mentions something about 320 hp total for a correctly tuned ecu.
He talked about that alot....something to do with the volts on each sensor...if they are changed the ECU realizes the volt change....lets say increased intake flow. The volts would increase...well if that increases it may make the car, he said " vibrate or idle weird" then the ecu will constantly correct itself to reduce the volts back to normal on that sensor. IF it cant it will go to fail safe mode...I still dont totally understand that. He said to properly make any mod work for a gain...Which most mods normally increase oxygen (more airflow). You need to know which sensors get effected by that mod directly and trick them to report to the ecu that they are maintaing the proper volt. He told me a cheap way was using a resistor and a screw...and screw it in till it reads the right volt.....does that make sense??????? Like I said, I was more or less saying to myself...yeah oooohhh ok... Do you have a my350z modding manual for dummies??...hee hee...
He told me to save my money on the aftermarket mods until the air/fuel mapping info is released.
He said that a K&N won't make that much differences because of the way the 02 computers are run...It would just last longer than a normal airfilter.
He kept on saying the ECM needs to be reprogramed and released...OR cheaply faking out the computer by messing with the o2 sensors.
He told me that a easy way to prove that your aftermarket bolt ons aren't working would be to to run emmission tests before and after...if they are the same then your ECU compensated for the bolt on and just changed the mapping back to normal specs aka no gain OR defaulted to fail safe mode aka loss HP
He said that any mod would have to have the program retuned on the ECM to keep the computer from thinking its running too lean or rich. He said emissions are a big source for finding HP and mentions something about 320 hp total for a correctly tuned ecu.
He talked about that alot....something to do with the volts on each sensor...if they are changed the ECU realizes the volt change....lets say increased intake flow. The volts would increase...well if that increases it may make the car, he said " vibrate or idle weird" then the ecu will constantly correct itself to reduce the volts back to normal on that sensor. IF it cant it will go to fail safe mode...I still dont totally understand that. He said to properly make any mod work for a gain...Which most mods normally increase oxygen (more airflow). You need to know which sensors get effected by that mod directly and trick them to report to the ecu that they are maintaing the proper volt. He told me a cheap way was using a resistor and a screw...and screw it in till it reads the right volt.....does that make sense??????? Like I said, I was more or less saying to myself...yeah oooohhh ok... Do you have a my350z modding manual for dummies??...hee hee...
basically the ECU has multiple sensors that the ECU checks with each other. You might fool one, but won't fool another, so the ECU starts changing things around. You need to fool the MAF and O2 sensors. Those are the primary intake and exhaust sensors. Preferably you would get the car tuned with your own wideband O2 sensor so YOU know what the A/F is, but the ECU doesn't actually know what the TRUE A/F is. IF you do it right, it'll think everything is within stock specs when they're really not - you actually have more air, more fuel, and more power going thru the engine...
I'm one of the few people, that really does have EVERY NA mod on my car and am approaching 300whp. I trip a SES light every 2nd time I start the car unless I do the full complete ECU reset from the service manual. The technosquare ECU reflash is quick and good for 2 car starts until it pops the light back on. If I do the nissan ECU reset, then the TS reset, it'll last about 4-5 car restarts before popping up a SES light.
I don't have test pipes, but have a lot of air going thru my car for being NA. In a month, we'll find out if I'm right about the ECU or not...I think I am though because it coincides with everything I've read. I'm expecting to go beyond 300whp within the next 30 days...and that's on 91 octane on the west coast...
Last edited by sentry65; May 7, 2005 at 11:30 AM.
The gain with test pipes is going to be felt on the top end, not in the lower rpm's. Sounds like you need practice moreso than modifications. If you really want to notice a difference then look up the tilton clutch and flywheel.
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From: you'd Like to know
Originally Posted by zand02max
Dude chill, I wasn't correcting you, geez 
you...YOU WANNA START SOMETHING???
Kuz I'll take you down dude. DOWN TO THE....ground, I suppose...
but yeah, FEAR ME!
just curious why you bought the car then. lots of other stuff that is faster stock than the Z for $30-35k. you don't seem to brite to spend that amount of money then be surprised when you took it for a test drive and knew what it could do.
i don't have much into mine and from other posts and comparisons i am hoping to see 440-450rwhp when i hit the dyno. total cost was about $6000 to do everything (i got the ati used, and do all my own work). if you can find a car that looks this good, and can push those kind of hp numbers for a better deal, let me know.
until then you are prolly posting your whiny little story in the wrong place and making your self look kind of stupid.
i don't have much into mine and from other posts and comparisons i am hoping to see 440-450rwhp when i hit the dyno. total cost was about $6000 to do everything (i got the ati used, and do all my own work). if you can find a car that looks this good, and can push those kind of hp numbers for a better deal, let me know.
until then you are prolly posting your whiny little story in the wrong place and making your self look kind of stupid.
the new mustang, EVO, sti, SRT4, GTO, are all good cars for flat out straight line speed that are extremely mod friendly to make faster and within the same price range (or less) than the Z.....
Originally Posted by sentry65
the new mustang, EVO, sti, SRT4, GTO, are all good cars for flat out straight line speed that are extremely mod friendly to make faster and within the same price range (or less) than the Z.....
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From: central ny
Originally Posted by overZealous1
just curious why you bought the car then. lots of other stuff that is faster stock than the Z for $30-35k. you don't seem to brite to spend that amount of money then be surprised when you took it for a test drive and knew what it could do.
i don't have much into mine and from other posts and comparisons i am hoping to see 440-450rwhp when i hit the dyno. total cost was about $6000 to do everything (i got the ati used, and do all my own work). if you can find a car that looks this good, and can push those kind of hp numbers for a better deal, let me know.
until then you are prolly posting your whiny little story in the wrong place and making your self look kind of stupid.
i don't have much into mine and from other posts and comparisons i am hoping to see 440-450rwhp when i hit the dyno. total cost was about $6000 to do everything (i got the ati used, and do all my own work). if you can find a car that looks this good, and can push those kind of hp numbers for a better deal, let me know.
until then you are prolly posting your whiny little story in the wrong place and making your self look kind of stupid.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Feb 2005
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From: PLANET Z
Originally Posted by sentry65
ok i broke down
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....engineer+phone
and
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....3&page=1&pp=20
here's some highlights pulled from the nissan tech article
everyone always dismisses that thread or doesn't come across it. I think that nissan engineer thread is possibly the greatest NA thread of all. The bolt on parts are there, but if no one does something about the ECU, you won't see the full potential of the mods.
basically the ECU has multiple sensors that the ECU checks with each other. You might fool one, but won't fool another, so the ECU starts changing things around. You need to fool the MAF and O2 sensors. Those are the primary intake and exhaust sensors. Preferably you would get the car tuned with your own wideband O2 sensor so YOU know what the A/F is, but the ECU doesn't actually know what the TRUE A/F is. IF you do it right, it'll think everything is within stock specs when they're really not - you actually have more air, more fuel, and more power going thru the engine...
I'm one of the few people, that really does have EVERY NA mod on my car and am approaching 300whp. I trip a SES light every 2nd time I start the car unless I do the full complete ECU reset from the service manual. The technosquare ECU reflash is quick and good for 2 car starts until it pops the light back on. If I do the nissan ECU reset, then the TS reset, it'll last about 4-5 car restarts before popping up a SES light.
I don't have test pipes, but have a lot of air going thru my car for being NA. In a month, we'll find out if I'm right about the ECU or not...I think I am though because it coincides with everything I've read. I'm expecting to go beyond 300whp within the next 30 days...and that's on 91 octane on the west coast...
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....engineer+phone
and
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....3&page=1&pp=20
here's some highlights pulled from the nissan tech article
everyone always dismisses that thread or doesn't come across it. I think that nissan engineer thread is possibly the greatest NA thread of all. The bolt on parts are there, but if no one does something about the ECU, you won't see the full potential of the mods.
basically the ECU has multiple sensors that the ECU checks with each other. You might fool one, but won't fool another, so the ECU starts changing things around. You need to fool the MAF and O2 sensors. Those are the primary intake and exhaust sensors. Preferably you would get the car tuned with your own wideband O2 sensor so YOU know what the A/F is, but the ECU doesn't actually know what the TRUE A/F is. IF you do it right, it'll think everything is within stock specs when they're really not - you actually have more air, more fuel, and more power going thru the engine...
I'm one of the few people, that really does have EVERY NA mod on my car and am approaching 300whp. I trip a SES light every 2nd time I start the car unless I do the full complete ECU reset from the service manual. The technosquare ECU reflash is quick and good for 2 car starts until it pops the light back on. If I do the nissan ECU reset, then the TS reset, it'll last about 4-5 car restarts before popping up a SES light.
I don't have test pipes, but have a lot of air going thru my car for being NA. In a month, we'll find out if I'm right about the ECU or not...I think I am though because it coincides with everything I've read. I'm expecting to go beyond 300whp within the next 30 days...and that's on 91 octane on the west coast...
DUDE good find thats some great info..well im going to remove the POS AEM intake see what happens...im keeping the pipes love the sound with the stock exhaust
Guys this is a fantastic car looks so frigin sexy and rides like a dream but 240 WHP is unacceptable for the money... i mean 10-15 years ago it would have been fine but these days sports cars are in a HP WAR and Fu&^ing nissan gave the Z a 240WHP
i still love my350Z.com
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From: central ny
I also find it odd that people seem to negelct that info. It's from October 2002, and I would regard it as the most reliable ECU information available. Personally I think all of the information should be organized, and placed in a sticky.
Mods? good idea, or not?
Mods? good idea, or not?
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,703
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From: central ny
Originally Posted by KWIKZ
... but 240 WHP is unacceptable for the money... i mean 10-15 years ago it would have been fine but these days sports cars are in a HP WAR and Fu&^ing nissan gave the Z a 240WHP
15 years ago, there was no way a massed produced vehicle that was as fast as the Z could have existed.
well, I'm going to install the Apexi AFCII and the O2 sensor cheat/fix and we'll see what ends up happening.
I'm waiting to get the kinetix SSV first though. I can't do WOT runs until then because I broke off a bolt on my lower plenum and it had an air leak. It's currently sealed with big thick layers of silicon (looks oh soooo good to btw hehe jk) So I can't do WOT runs without risking bursting my silicon seal.
But anyway, since I have all the major NA mods and am making some pretty big power for NA, I'm expecting my car to really open up once I get the A/F taken care of. I'm still running 2.5 points too lean and the ECU quickly starts retarding my timing. I've sent my ECU back and forth to TS 3 or 4 times, and the A/F always seems to get better, but it's fighting against the emissions part of the ECU and just leans it back out, then knock, then retard timing, pull more fuel, etc to keep the car running at low power.
There's other people with the Apexi piggyback, but not the cat sensor tweak, and they don't necessarily have cams or some of the other NA parts I have - that I know of anyway.
Once I get everything, I'll dyno tune and report my findings. It will confirm or not confirm the ECU issue. At that point I'll write a huge ECU FAQ thread.
the nissan engineer thread is really long and goes into so many topics about supercharger rumors etc - and back in oct 2002, people didn't know ANYTHING about the Z, so there's all sorts of guessing. Really just a few posts in that thread have any real info.
I'm waiting to get the kinetix SSV first though. I can't do WOT runs until then because I broke off a bolt on my lower plenum and it had an air leak. It's currently sealed with big thick layers of silicon (looks oh soooo good to btw hehe jk) So I can't do WOT runs without risking bursting my silicon seal.
But anyway, since I have all the major NA mods and am making some pretty big power for NA, I'm expecting my car to really open up once I get the A/F taken care of. I'm still running 2.5 points too lean and the ECU quickly starts retarding my timing. I've sent my ECU back and forth to TS 3 or 4 times, and the A/F always seems to get better, but it's fighting against the emissions part of the ECU and just leans it back out, then knock, then retard timing, pull more fuel, etc to keep the car running at low power.
There's other people with the Apexi piggyback, but not the cat sensor tweak, and they don't necessarily have cams or some of the other NA parts I have - that I know of anyway.
Once I get everything, I'll dyno tune and report my findings. It will confirm or not confirm the ECU issue. At that point I'll write a huge ECU FAQ thread.
the nissan engineer thread is really long and goes into so many topics about supercharger rumors etc - and back in oct 2002, people didn't know ANYTHING about the Z, so there's all sorts of guessing. Really just a few posts in that thread have any real info.
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From: central ny
Originally Posted by sentry65
well, I'm going to install the Apexi AFCII and the O2 sensor cheat/fix and we'll see what ends up happening.
I'm waiting to get the kinetix SSV first though. I can't do WOT runs until then because I broke off a bolt on my lower plenum and it had an air leak. It's currently sealed with big thick layers of silicon (looks oh soooo good to btw hehe jk) So I can't do WOT runs without risking bursting my silicon seal.
But anyway, since I have all the major NA mods and am making some pretty big power for NA, I'm expecting my car to really open up once I get the A/F taken care of. I'm still running 2.5 points too lean and the ECU quickly starts retarding my timing. I've sent my ECU back and forth to TS 3 or 4 times, and the A/F always seems to get better, but it's fighting against the emissions part of the ECU and just leans it back out, then knock, then retard timing, pull more fuel, etc to keep the car running at low power.
There's other people with the Apexi piggyback, but not the cat sensor tweak, and they don't necessarily have cams or some of the other NA parts I have - that I know of anyway.
Once I get everything, I'll dyno tune and report my findings. It will confirm or not confirm the ECU issue. At that point I'll write a huge ECU FAQ thread.
the nissan engineer thread is really long and goes into so many topics about supercharger rumors etc - and back in oct 2002, people didn't know ANYTHING about the Z, so there's all sorts of guessing. Really just a few posts in that thread have any real info.
I'm waiting to get the kinetix SSV first though. I can't do WOT runs until then because I broke off a bolt on my lower plenum and it had an air leak. It's currently sealed with big thick layers of silicon (looks oh soooo good to btw hehe jk) So I can't do WOT runs without risking bursting my silicon seal.
But anyway, since I have all the major NA mods and am making some pretty big power for NA, I'm expecting my car to really open up once I get the A/F taken care of. I'm still running 2.5 points too lean and the ECU quickly starts retarding my timing. I've sent my ECU back and forth to TS 3 or 4 times, and the A/F always seems to get better, but it's fighting against the emissions part of the ECU and just leans it back out, then knock, then retard timing, pull more fuel, etc to keep the car running at low power.
There's other people with the Apexi piggyback, but not the cat sensor tweak, and they don't necessarily have cams or some of the other NA parts I have - that I know of anyway.
Once I get everything, I'll dyno tune and report my findings. It will confirm or not confirm the ECU issue. At that point I'll write a huge ECU FAQ thread.
the nissan engineer thread is really long and goes into so many topics about supercharger rumors etc - and back in oct 2002, people didn't know ANYTHING about the Z, so there's all sorts of guessing. Really just a few posts in that thread have any real info.
If you manage to really and truly trick the ECU, I would assume that given your many NA mods, that you should get a really big increase in hp/tq. Assuming all the theories are totally correct, how much hp/tq do you think you will gain if you can completely trick the ECU?
Some of your power the computer cannot negate, obviously, since you're at almost 300whp. I always complain about how my car is inconsistently powerful, and I'm bone stock. In your case, the difference must be night and day, with the ECU playing catch-up after all the resets.
Anyways, I am looking forward to your findings! It would be nice if we found an Nissan engineer with a modded Z. He would know what's up :P
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From: Another Dimension
Originally Posted by phile
I think most people neglect the fact that the car is decently powerful, and at the same time it's pretty darn fuel efficient and emissions friendly!
15 years ago, there was no way a massed produced vehicle that was as fast as the Z could have existed.
15 years ago, there was no way a massed produced vehicle that was as fast as the Z could have existed.
'Specially with a n/a v6 !