How much serious interest is there in a complete ECU replacement?
05-11-2005, 11:40 PM
#41
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Originally Posted by nis350ztt
The company I am dealing with, shouldn't have a problem with "small market" because they only deal with Subaru's as it is anyway.
Like I said, there are drawbacks to the current standalones.
I think $1,000-2,000 is do-able. Even if it's less than $4k it's still cheaper than a few standalones and only a little more than the others.
I do believe that we could see this happen in 1 to 2 years since they know what they are doing.
As far as AEM, i'm starting to think they suck more and more everyday. Lack of support, lack of updates, putting off projects, etc.
Like I said, there are drawbacks to the current standalones.
I think $1,000-2,000 is do-able. Even if it's less than $4k it's still cheaper than a few standalones and only a little more than the others.
I do believe that we could see this happen in 1 to 2 years since they know what they are doing.
As far as AEM, i'm starting to think they suck more and more everyday. Lack of support, lack of updates, putting off projects, etc.
I do have a pretty good idea on who this mfg is btw. I believe they have the resources to develop a Z ECU, it's just a matter of time. Your estimate of 1-2 years is a pretty fair guess. The more mfg the better the market becomes, so I wish you luck in convincing them to move forward.
And as for AEM, no comment.
05-11-2005, 11:56 PM
#43
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Originally Posted by Z BOY
underpressure, thanx for your input. about internet abyss's thread where the nissan engineer made the solution seem so easy, have you read that thread? have the ecu developers out there read it? is it total bs?
ps: here's a link to that thread:https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....engineer+phone
ps: here's a link to that thread:https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....engineer+phone
I do remember that thread from so long ago...
The stock Nissan ECU really is a very good unit. If we as tuners had full access to the Nissan ECU @ the same level we have for GM & Ford. The topic of standalone ecu would be a null and void subject. They would not be needed except for very aggressive, unique setups. However until someone @ Nissan Corporate leaks the source or the slight hacks that are already available get alot more userfriendly. There is a market for an aftermarket ECU.
In all honesty it would not be that difficult to rev. eng. the stock ECU. Just finding the right group of eng. willing to devote the time and effort to read, de-coding, and develop a gui for all the hex.
05-12-2005, 12:11 AM
#44
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Mark me down!
2003 6MT
$600-$1200
I'm very interested in this if, as you stated, it does a better job than what is already out there and doesn't qualify as highway robbery in the payment department. There are a lot of variables in regards to cost since the end product may or may not have a number of features, hence my price range being so broad. I am speaking of things like laptop compatibility/tunability, etc.
Personally I am an NA guy and will most likely stay that way, I'm just looking for a solution to correct for the crummy AF issues and äss-backwards learning curve of the stock computer. I don't need anything super expensive and complicated. While computer tuning would be nice, I'd prefer something on the lower end that just takes it a step further than TS and AAM have in order to really get things right. Judging by the cost of complete replacement chips in other decent Japanese cars, the 500-1000 dollar range seems about right.
2003 6MT
$600-$1200
I'm very interested in this if, as you stated, it does a better job than what is already out there and doesn't qualify as highway robbery in the payment department. There are a lot of variables in regards to cost since the end product may or may not have a number of features, hence my price range being so broad. I am speaking of things like laptop compatibility/tunability, etc.
Personally I am an NA guy and will most likely stay that way, I'm just looking for a solution to correct for the crummy AF issues and äss-backwards learning curve of the stock computer. I don't need anything super expensive and complicated. While computer tuning would be nice, I'd prefer something on the lower end that just takes it a step further than TS and AAM have in order to really get things right. Judging by the cost of complete replacement chips in other decent Japanese cars, the 500-1000 dollar range seems about right.
05-12-2005, 12:11 AM
#45
highlights from that thread:
He said YOU CANNOT get performance gains with out either reprograming the ecu or faking it by cutting or sodering some wires/circuts and making it think it is running in normal specs. He said thats what aftermarket companies do when they "so called reprogram" the ecu and then charge $1300 bucks for it...(he laughed at that).... He said without faking it would do something about running in fail safe mode which makes it even crapper than stock specs....his example to my dumb *** was like windows 98 running in safe mode when there is a error.
He told me to save my money on the aftermarket mods until the air/fuel mapping info is released.
He said that a K&N won't make that much differences because of the way the 02 computers are run...It would just last longer than a normal airfilter.
He kept on saying the ECM needs to be reprogramed and released...OR cheaply faking out the computer by messing with the o2 sensors.
He told me that a easy way to prove that your aftermarket bolt ons aren't working would be to to run emmission tests before and after...if they are the same then your ECU compensated for the bolt on and just changed the mapping back to normal specs aka no gain OR defaulted to fail safe mode aka loss HP
He said that any mod would have to have the program retuned on the ECM to keep the computer from thinking its running too lean or rich. He said emissions are a big source for finding HP and mentions something about 320 hp total for a correctly tuned ecu.
Thats what he heard was capable of...
He said that he knows the specs/diagram of the ecu very well and what wire would need to be cut and resistors that need to be placed.
Quote:
He talked about that alot....something to do with the volts on each sensor...if they are changed the ECU realizes the volt change....lets say increased intake flow. The volts would increase...well if that increases it may make the car, he said " vibrate or idle weird" then the ecu will constantly correct itself to reduce the volts back to normal on that sensor. IF it cant it will go to fail safe mode...I still dont totally understand that. He said to properly make any mod work for a gain...Which most mods normally increase oxygen (more airflow). You need to know which sensors get effected by that mod directly and trick them to report to the ecu that they are maintaing the proper volt. He told me a cheap way was using a resistor and a screw...and screw it in till it reads the right volt.....does that make sense???????
He said YOU CANNOT get performance gains with out either reprograming the ecu or faking it by cutting or sodering some wires/circuts and making it think it is running in normal specs. He said thats what aftermarket companies do when they "so called reprogram" the ecu and then charge $1300 bucks for it...(he laughed at that).... He said without faking it would do something about running in fail safe mode which makes it even crapper than stock specs....his example to my dumb *** was like windows 98 running in safe mode when there is a error.
He told me to save my money on the aftermarket mods until the air/fuel mapping info is released.
He said that a K&N won't make that much differences because of the way the 02 computers are run...It would just last longer than a normal airfilter.
He kept on saying the ECM needs to be reprogramed and released...OR cheaply faking out the computer by messing with the o2 sensors.
He told me that a easy way to prove that your aftermarket bolt ons aren't working would be to to run emmission tests before and after...if they are the same then your ECU compensated for the bolt on and just changed the mapping back to normal specs aka no gain OR defaulted to fail safe mode aka loss HP
He said that any mod would have to have the program retuned on the ECM to keep the computer from thinking its running too lean or rich. He said emissions are a big source for finding HP and mentions something about 320 hp total for a correctly tuned ecu.
Thats what he heard was capable of...
He said that he knows the specs/diagram of the ecu very well and what wire would need to be cut and resistors that need to be placed.
Quote:
He talked about that alot....something to do with the volts on each sensor...if they are changed the ECU realizes the volt change....lets say increased intake flow. The volts would increase...well if that increases it may make the car, he said " vibrate or idle weird" then the ecu will constantly correct itself to reduce the volts back to normal on that sensor. IF it cant it will go to fail safe mode...I still dont totally understand that. He said to properly make any mod work for a gain...Which most mods normally increase oxygen (more airflow). You need to know which sensors get effected by that mod directly and trick them to report to the ecu that they are maintaing the proper volt. He told me a cheap way was using a resistor and a screw...and screw it in till it reads the right volt.....does that make sense???????
05-12-2005, 04:34 AM
#47
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Nissan VS Mopar
I also have a SRT4, plus my Z I have kept my NA mods limited because of the computer issue. Mopar came out with stage 1 2 & 3 computers with in a year. Nissan is the one losing out here. They would sell a lot more Z's , if they would get in the game. My advice after 25 years of building race cars. Dont reflash it is a waste of $ on this ECU. By the way my srt at 18 lb boost walks all over my Z on the street.
Last edited by GUS-Z; 05-12-2005 at 04:38 AM. Reason: Additional info
05-12-2005, 04:54 AM
#48
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Here is the problem with this......
Originally Posted by nis350ztt
I have a source that said they would consider it if there was a huge demand for it.
So report here if you are honestly interested in getting one if the results and price are fair.
Once I get a list, i'll send them a reply and see what they think.
The company is reputable with Subaru's and wanted to stick to Subaru's, but like I said, if there is a huge demand, they would seriously consider it.
So report here if you are honestly interested in getting one if the results and price are fair.
Once I get a list, i'll send them a reply and see what they think.
The company is reputable with Subaru's and wanted to stick to Subaru's, but like I said, if there is a huge demand, they would seriously consider it.
05-12-2005, 05:07 AM
#49
Originally Posted by GUS-Z
I also have a SRT4, plus my Z I have kept my NA mods limited because of the computer issue. Mopar came out with stage 1 2 & 3 computers with in a year. Nissan is the one losing out here. They would sell a lot more Z's , if they would get in the game. My advice after 25 years of building race cars. Dont reflash it is a waste of $ on this ECU. By the way my srt at 18 lb boost walks all over my Z on the street.
My Edelbrock Nitrous System has 2 electronic modules that READ the Throttle Position, Air Temperature, Coolant Temperature, and fools the ECU to feed the motor more gas. I have been told that there is a limit how much more fuel it can supply.....enough for a 100-shot which would produce a short boost of 354 HP....perhaps this is the limit of the stock fuel system? Related link: http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/04...edelbrock350z/
.
.
05-12-2005, 05:31 AM
#50
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Originally Posted by UnderPressure
In all honesty it would not be that difficult to rev. eng. the stock ECU. Just finding the right group of eng. willing to devote the time and effort to read, de-coding, and develop a gui for all the hex.
05-12-2005, 06:32 AM
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HKS Fcon Vpro is possibly one of the best standalone ECU for Z right now.
Priced at $1400 and Harness for $500, totalling $1900. It's got loads of features and almost EVERYTHING is tunable..
Then, the biggest drawbacks are only certified "HKS PRO" shop can sell it, and even touch/ tune it. (There are not that many pro shops)
Priced at $1400 and Harness for $500, totalling $1900. It's got loads of features and almost EVERYTHING is tunable..
Then, the biggest drawbacks are only certified "HKS PRO" shop can sell it, and even touch/ tune it. (There are not that many pro shops)
05-12-2005, 07:29 AM
#52
Originally Posted by UnderPressure
I have seen first hand a ECU developed specifically for the Z. I am working w/ the mfg. I have the software. The first test car should be running in the near future. This system is geared towards professional race teams. Pricing is expected to be in the $5k range, for the entry level version. Pimp version expect 5 digits.
05-12-2005, 07:43 AM
#53
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It's not that they are targeting race teams only per sae, but those are the only ones w/ the budgets and technical know how to utilize the ecu to its fullest extent. The software alone puts anything currently on the market to shame. The level of control and the shear number of parameters are overwealming. This system is designed by race engineers, for race engineers.
If any one here would like one of these ecu's I will be more than happy to sell, install and tune it for you once they are released. I have been working w/ standalones for the past 5 years. I have worked on just about every flavor of ecu on the market. From entry level to OEM to F1 quality. I also have very, very close ties to more than a few mfg's.
Now who's got ~$7k to step up to the plate.
If any one here would like one of these ecu's I will be more than happy to sell, install and tune it for you once they are released. I have been working w/ standalones for the past 5 years. I have worked on just about every flavor of ecu on the market. From entry level to OEM to F1 quality. I also have very, very close ties to more than a few mfg's.
Now who's got ~$7k to step up to the plate.
05-12-2005, 08:12 AM
#54
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Originally Posted by seanrulz
HKS Fcon Vpro is possibly one of the best standalone ECU for Z right now.
Priced at $1400 and Harness for $500, totalling $1900. It's got loads of features and almost EVERYTHING is tunable..
Then, the biggest drawbacks are only certified "HKS PRO" shop can sell it, and even touch/ tune it. (There are not that many pro shops)
Priced at $1400 and Harness for $500, totalling $1900. It's got loads of features and almost EVERYTHING is tunable..
Then, the biggest drawbacks are only certified "HKS PRO" shop can sell it, and even touch/ tune it. (There are not that many pro shops)
Not to mention TCS/VDC/cruise control either don't work or don't work properly with the V-Pro.
05-12-2005, 08:39 AM
#55
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Originally Posted by Speedracer
There are so many different combinations of mods that people do for this car that it would be impossible to produce an ECU to work with them all. What is completely missing from the Z aftermarket is a SYSTEM utilizing a reprogrammed primary ECU without the use of a piggyback. This is with the exception of the Crawford/Techno combo, of course.
I'll talk to them about our options though and how far they are willing to go and how much more time certain things will take.
05-12-2005, 08:42 AM
#57
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Originally Posted by froggy
Would it work on european models (France)?
2004 6mt $1000(shipped...)
2004 6mt $1000(shipped...)
05-12-2005, 08:44 AM
#58
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Originally Posted by nis350ztt
Further specifying is required.
Laptop capability? User able to adjust settings on their own (from a list of pre-tuned maps, etc.)? Estimated price? What kind of gain could we see? What kind of time frame until this will be ready to sell?
[All members listed are of my350z unless specified from another forum]
KWIKZ (2005, track, 6 speed $899-999)
jcn30127 (2004 6mt, price expected=open, concerns/comments/questions=at least 2 maps available/switchable)
DayBlueZ (2004 5AT, $1,000 , will we be able to control it? or will it control us? will it have memory for different settings?)
zillinois (2003 6MT, $800-1,200 , depending on functionality)
kpiskin (2003 Touring 5AT, $400-500, want ECU automatically adjust to mods as they come (eg. plenum, pop charger, cats, exhaust etc.) without slowly losing power and requiring a reset of the ECU. I don't need any real level of control, but would want to take advantage of non-FI mods.)
Z BOY (2003 Performance, 6MT, $500-2,000 , at least 2 maps: 1 for daily driving, 1 for WOT/350CHP, ASAFP)
ZU L8R (2003 Touring/5AT/$800-$1,000)
nizmoz
subdriver [350ZMotoring] (2003, 5AT, $1,000 max, concerns are the same as kpiskins')
syf0n (2003 6MT, $600-1200 , I'm very interested in this if, as you stated, it does a better job than what is already out there and doesn't qualify as highway robbery in the payment department. There are a lot of variables in regards to cost since the end product may or may not have a number of features, hence my price range being so broad. I am speaking of things like laptop compatibility/tunability, etc.)
Zexy
sabrefanpc [350ZMotoring] (2003 6MT, $1000, full fuel and timing control, multiple maps)
lowtempo [350ZMotoring] (year?, transmission?, price range?, Im interested asap. I would also be interested to beable to reflash or reprogram it back to stock if i had to put my stock peices back on for smog testing)
WHOZNXT [350ZMotoring] (year?, transmission?, $1,000+ depending on results)
CAPTJ3 [350ZMotoring] (year?, transmission?, price range?, Would this ECU be able to work with a TT setup?How would they go about doing this map or maf based?)
Does this look good so far?
Laptop capability? User able to adjust settings on their own (from a list of pre-tuned maps, etc.)? Estimated price? What kind of gain could we see? What kind of time frame until this will be ready to sell?
[All members listed are of my350z unless specified from another forum]
KWIKZ (2005, track, 6 speed $899-999)
jcn30127 (2004 6mt, price expected=open, concerns/comments/questions=at least 2 maps available/switchable)
DayBlueZ (2004 5AT, $1,000 , will we be able to control it? or will it control us? will it have memory for different settings?)
zillinois (2003 6MT, $800-1,200 , depending on functionality)
kpiskin (2003 Touring 5AT, $400-500, want ECU automatically adjust to mods as they come (eg. plenum, pop charger, cats, exhaust etc.) without slowly losing power and requiring a reset of the ECU. I don't need any real level of control, but would want to take advantage of non-FI mods.)
Z BOY (2003 Performance, 6MT, $500-2,000 , at least 2 maps: 1 for daily driving, 1 for WOT/350CHP, ASAFP)
ZU L8R (2003 Touring/5AT/$800-$1,000)
nizmoz
subdriver [350ZMotoring] (2003, 5AT, $1,000 max, concerns are the same as kpiskins')
syf0n (2003 6MT, $600-1200 , I'm very interested in this if, as you stated, it does a better job than what is already out there and doesn't qualify as highway robbery in the payment department. There are a lot of variables in regards to cost since the end product may or may not have a number of features, hence my price range being so broad. I am speaking of things like laptop compatibility/tunability, etc.)
Zexy
sabrefanpc [350ZMotoring] (2003 6MT, $1000, full fuel and timing control, multiple maps)
lowtempo [350ZMotoring] (year?, transmission?, price range?, Im interested asap. I would also be interested to beable to reflash or reprogram it back to stock if i had to put my stock peices back on for smog testing)
WHOZNXT [350ZMotoring] (year?, transmission?, $1,000+ depending on results)
CAPTJ3 [350ZMotoring] (year?, transmission?, price range?, Would this ECU be able to work with a TT setup?How would they go about doing this map or maf based?)
Does this look good so far?
BTW...
DO NOT tell me to add your member name if you have already been added on 350ZMotoring or ********** or G35Driver.
Last edited by nis350ztt; 05-12-2005 at 08:54 AM.
05-12-2005, 10:48 AM
#59
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Originally Posted by UnderPressure
Wow... not another standalone thread...
Image for a second you are an ECU mfg. Now would you like to devote a large part of your company's limited engineering/coding/mfg resources to a small market, I.E. 350Z, or turn out the cookie cutter ECU's for Hondas. EVO's, STI's, etc...
Image for a second you are an ECU mfg. Now would you like to devote a large part of your company's limited engineering/coding/mfg resources to a small market, I.E. 350Z, or turn out the cookie cutter ECU's for Hondas. EVO's, STI's, etc...
are you kidding me what small market u talking bout thers probably over a million 350Z/G35/maximas/others that are in the same boat as us..
who ever is the first one on this freking planet to have this new ECU replacement is going to be FU$$ING RICH man..
05-12-2005, 11:15 AM
#60
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Originally Posted by nis350ztt
I agree with you, however, the HKS is crap to tune (as far as quality) and like you said, HKS Pro Dealers are hard to come by, there isn't even one in the southeast.
Not to mention TCS/VDC/cruise control either don't work or don't work properly with the V-Pro.
Not to mention TCS/VDC/cruise control either don't work or don't work properly with the V-Pro.
And TCS/VDC/Cruise Control can be all retained and work properly since Fcon Vpro only takes care of engine control and stock ECU still takes care of rest. (at least that's what phunk said if I recall correctly.)
So I think there is nothing you lose except finding HKS Pro dealers is pretty hard.
Someone with more profound knowledge about HKS Fcon Vpro can chime in?