Has anyone built a full NA motor yet on this forum? I am talking high compression pistons (on 91 octane), sleeved, ported/polished, head work, ect ect. Its becoming very apparent that a full bolt on motor isnt going to get me where I want (400rwhp). I really need as much infomation to what people have done so far. If I get enough info, the Z is going off the road in September and I am going to build a fully built NA Z. SGP would be the builder and I know what they offer and they seem to believe that I can get over 400HP paying about 3/4 the cost of a twin turbo setup and a low compression shortblock. Will I be venturing into somthing not worth it? Or has no one else went this deep w/o FI? This is goin to be a daily driver during summer months.

I dont want to hear "It's not worth it" or anything that isn't going to help.

 

I have not yet seen a NA Z with more than 300rwhp, so for now I am a little skeptical about a 400rwhp NA Z being accomplished. There have been a number of people that planned to go all out on NA, but then they opted for FI since it is a lot cheaper and will get you a lot more power.

 

If you go this route the TQ band will be very sloped with peak rwhp towards redline,somewhat similar to an ATI or Vortech (but less peak power and noise). In order to milk the powerband you''ll need to drop the gearing to 3.9 or more. This route is Fine for a track-cetric setup , not nearly as satifying as the much much fatter TQ curve of a Turbo setup IMO. Don't just fixate on peak numbers , that is not were most cars are regularly driven, unless this is a targeted track app.

 

I would like it streetable but stil able to go to the track and run it. I am not rich by any means and would like to see somone else get there car together and dyno it so I dont waste my time. I have 3.9 final drive and would actually like a little more power in the upper curve so it won't want to rip the tires off. But the Final Drive is what will make the car feel like a still have the torque on the low end.

 

That's right, you can always tell a pioneer because thay have the arrows in their backs. lol

I've also been thinking that an engine project would be interesting. I've never build an engine and I think it would be fun. Are there any books on how to do this that apply to the Z?

I would want to build the engine and test it before swaping it for the stock. Is it impossible to find someone to run the engine on a test bed to test and tune it?

I've been looking at parts and it wouldn't be cheap but I can't tell if I'm looking at parts intended for racing and more than I need.

 

NISMO Japan has a lot of 'N/A' goodies you may want to check out.

They have cams (with crazy profiles) , heads, valve springs, etc.. I think the setup it requires running more than 91 octane though.

 

How would I get a hold of some parts from Japan or look to see whats available?

 

Check out their website.

http://www.nismo.co.jp

To get the parts you will need tons of cash and I believe Performance Nissan can get them. They deal with NISMO Japan.

 

400 at the crank is do-able but expensive, 400rwhp is probably do-able also, but I cant see how it would be cheaper than an off the shelf turbo kit. Dont get me wrong, I prefer the NA route but dont kid yourself that it is going to be cheaper than a turbo kit. The JGTC GT300 350Z's put out around 450hp at the crank and we are talking a $40k-50k motor + $15k in electronics...

The GrandAm Cup racecars put out around 380hp+ at the crank and the motors cost at least $10k to build and use $10-15k in Motec electronics.

You can get a turbo kit installed for what, $8-9k?

Dont want to rain on your parade but you do need to be realistic, there is no way you are going to get the numbers that you want, in the cost range you are looking at unfortunately.

 

LOL iam havin a hard time readin japaneese. . any translators around here.. dont tell me google

 

most people who have big plans for building NA engines change their plans very quickly once they realize the work, the money and the drivability of a properly built VQ35DE engine... all go FI in the end(a portion of those then go on to blowing up their motor... but that is another story)

I think no one, except the race teams(and a VERY few remote tuners), really managed anything worthy of notice NA.

How many 350+ crank hp VQ35DE do we know??

 

The JGTC car is Twin Tuboed 500 HP at the wheels and dont use our motor! IE: Displacement 2997cc Engine Model VQ30DETT. They use fully built NISMO engines unavailable to the public. Titanium rods ect. ect. They are only allowed a have a certain amount of HP PER Litre hence the 500HP limit for all the Z's in it.

As for the grandam cup series you are only allowed to use parts open to the general public and the dont allow overbore or anything on the motor. ALL of the 350z on Grand AM cup use NISMO R TUNE parts.

http://www.grandamerican.com/CONTENT...Reg%209-29.pdf


How do you figure having a reliable turboed car fully built is cheaper then a NA build. Most will tell you to have a reliable turboed car over 400rwhp will need a built short block It will cost over 30K to have a reliable fully built motor + twin turbo beast.

Crawfords car is achieving 300HP with straight bolt-ons.

The bore and stroke in the VQ motor is a great balance for a NA car. Just it seems everyone is kinda scared to venture there as well am I having no wheres near the knowledge alot of these guys have of the VQ.

 

I think there are alot more experience builders then I on this site that havnt actually tried this. I know how to build a car but the problem is having not having enough knowledge of the VQ motor.

So I am taking it that really no one has tried this yet lol

 

" VQ35DE engine part (for competition)" sale
For the tuner which had the know-how of engine tuning material commodity


The NISSAN * motor sport * international corporation " the VQ35DE engine part (for competition)" adds sets, we sell the NISMO shop of entire country, the NISSAN dealership and the NISSAN part dealership, via the famous shop, and the NISMO product handling shop et cetera.

The VQ35 which " the VQ35DE engine part (for competition)" begins the Z33, is loaded onto the NISSAN FR advanced car (FR specification) it is the part for competition of engine. With domestic circuit race/lace and off load durable race/lace it was merchandised by way of encounter use. Furthermore this commodity is the material commodity for the tuner which had the know-how of engine tuning.


1. High pressure reduction ratio cylinder head With the presence of inlet valve seat inside diameter and port step attaching correction, " the Spec-1 (phi 31)" with " the Spec-2 (phi 32)" two line-ups were prepared.

< Compressed ratio up easy >
The VQ35 head (the genuine products) vis-a-vis, only the combustion chamber with VQ30 genuine form as the base it achieves the compact conversion of the important combustion chamber casting * processing especially due to, as a NA engine easy. Capacity was made to decrease substantially. Because of this, combustion room capacity (the 56cc→ The 46cc) with it becomes, without doing the head surface research compression ratio rise ([ the genuine piston use time ] the 10.3→ 12.0) Is possible.

Potential rise of < INT port easy >
Dynamic valve system of this head uses the one for VQ30, but the inhalation port follows the one for VQ35 which has high potential. " Spec-2 " designates inlet valve seat inside diameter as phi 32, because it corrects inside R the inhalation port, actualizes the efficiency which exceeds the VQ35 genuine engine substantially.

< VQ35 titanium valve use possible >
It has become the design which can assure the improvement of dynamic valve system by using combining with the VQ35 titanium valve system of difference setting.


2. High intensity crankshaft To designate the durability improvement at the time of high revolution as purpose, the forging material the high intensity nickel-chrome-molybdenum steel (the SNCM439) modification. In addition, the fillet roll in the pin * journal section (the F/R) the load was designated as 2 times, resistance fatigue strength improved + 80%. Because the other than of the material * F / the R load genuine is identical size, being unnecessary processing to such as engine block, easy exchange is possible. * 8,500rpm correspondence


3. Strengthening head gasket Genuine, in order to withstand further high pressure reduction ratio * high supercharging, vis-a-vis the metal gasket which is adopted, with the adoption of molybdenum coating and the like, it is the commodity which improves the surface pressure the around the bore.
* Specification phi 96.5 t=0.7mm


4. Strengthening engine metal In order that early familiar * anti- load characteristic it improves with identical shape with the engine bearing metal of genuine specification, modification of the metal material (the CONNROD: F780→ F112) (MAIN: A17 X → The F112) with addition and modification of overlay I plating * flash plating are done.


5. Semi- processed camshaft for competition (STD material * high lift material)
The " STD material " and the " high lift material " were lined up. This commodity chill type for casting has produced with identical casting line equipment with 2 type using genuine products. Only cam profile processing being unprocessed, other things are all processing being completed. (The knock pin * FHASE sensor groove the ウエルチプラグ for the processed) / (knock pin * oil hole with not yet pressing in, bundled is completed with identical angle with the genuine products)


6. High lift camshaft (Spec-1 * Spec-2) With the size in operation angle, you prepare 2 types " of Spec-1 " and " Spec-2 ". With use use, it is selection possible.

< High lift camshaft (Spec-1) >
1. INT cam: Enlargement in operation angle (238deg→ 276deg),
カムリフト cUp (9.5mm→ 11.0mm), central angle (125deg→ 138deg)
2. EXH cam: Enlargement in operation angle (240deg→ 256deg),
カムリフト cUp (9.5mm→ 10.5mm), central angle (112deg→ 120deg)
3. VTC operation (the 50deg) when pointing in crank angle,
As for overlap with VTC off with 8deg and VTC on 58deg

< High lift camshaft (Spec-2) >
1. INT cam: Enlargement in operation angle (238deg→ 284deg), カムリフト cUp (9.5mm→ 11.0mm), central angle (125deg→ 135deg)
2. EXH cam: Enlargement in operation angle (240deg→ 268deg), カムリフト cUp (9.5mm→ 10.5mm), central angle (112deg→ 115deg)
3. VTC operation (35deg) when pointing in crank angle, as for overlap with VTC off with the 18deg and VTC on 53deg

7. For strengthening connecting rod volt/bolt (VQ35DE genuine form connecting rod) It is high rotary corresponding connecting rod volt/bolt for the genuine connecting rod. 40% it improved fatigue strength by adopting the SNCN material, vis-a-vis genuine volt/bolt (single unit fatigue test of connecting rod ASSY state).
* 7,200rpm corresponding and tightening procedure * tightening torque differs from genuine specification.


8. High declination VTC pulley While the VTC (the system which changes the cam central angle of the INT with the condition of the engine) being attached and with the engine, utilizing VTC function when it is compatible the output improvement in the high rotary limits and the stability of idling and the guaranty of concave fast torque, this commodity made the " declination 55° " vis-a-vis the genuine " declination 40° ", made the degree of freedom of camshaft selection increase.
* When you use the operation angular large camshaft and, combining VTC declination large,
That there is no interference of the INT valve and the piston, the valve recess should be guaranteed sufficiently
There is a necessity.


9. VQ35 titanium valve system * NISMO " 1. High pressure reduction ratio cylinder head " exclusive use With efficiency improvement of the NA engine, the improvement of of design degree of freedom of the cam profile due to the light weight conversion of dynamic valve system becomes an important point. In other words, you aim for the increase of the inhalation inhalation quantity with the increase of the opening area of the valve, in order to assure the " lift UP " and the " accelerating UP ", lightening the valve system and strengthening the valve spring become necessary. It is effective in light weight conversion of the especially valve to adopt the lightweight Ti (titanium) make valve at high intensity. As for this titanium valve system, it is the commodity which sets the private valve cap in addition to the VK45 genuine titanium valve.

Weight comparison: INT (genuine 51.4g→ NISMO 31.0g) * EXH (genuine 46.8g→ NISMO 28.7g)


10． High lift corresponding valve spring It is the strengthening spring for the enabled, high lift cam in the VQ * VK engine. The production head * valve * retainer - material * form of the highest level was adopted with the singles pulling which can be shared.
* High lift (valve: 9.2→ 11.0mm),
Load (at the time of installation: 196→ At the time of 245/ valve opening: 433→ 568n)
* Material modification (SWOSC-VCT→ SWOC-VX),
Linear (phi 3.30 Yen section → Oval section of 3.00×3.75)
* 11mm there is an adhesive room of the 1mm even with the カムリフト.


11． Strengthening oil pump In order that with the RB26 the oil pump gear damage which occurs the over learning time due to the mistake shift and the like on the basis of competition experience, is prevented beforehand, it is the oil pump which installs the machining gear of the SCM material in the one for VQ35.
* 8,500rpm correspondence


12． High flow fuel pump (Z33 exclusive use) It is the インタンク high flow pump. As a インタンクポンプ maximum stream flow increase (the 90→ 165 liters)" the 12.0V and P=300kPa condition " point, simultaneously adjusting to fuel emission quantitative increase, the sender - it did the orifice tuning inside, merchandised with finished product.

 

good god, you don't need a sleeved engine until you're at at least 550whp or so

save your money, it's not worth it. any sleeves you use will reduce your cooling capability of the block.

Higher compression won't do crap for power - maybe if you had like 11.5 compression and ran 100 octane race fuel you might get 10-20 more hp and better throttle response, but I dunno many people who think it's worth it. Just know what you're getting yourself into before doing it. Call SGP racing and tell them about your plans, they'll probably try to tell you that you have the wrong idea.

400 crank hp MIGHT be possible if you do EVERY NA mod, port the heads, really aggressive cams etc etc. It'll be a harder car to drive than FI. I seriously looked into going this route and well I know you didn't want anyone saying it, but it's not worth it.

 

A lot of these parts are not even worth the NISMO pricetag. Get a good machine shop with a flowbench and they will know how to work your head.

You could get your crank knife-edged and balanced.

Head Gasket, go with Cometic.

Con-Rod bearings, go with PE

Crazy cams, getting some custom ones made is probably cheaper than these NISMO's.

Titanium Valves & Springs can be ordered through your local Infiniti dealership or go with Ferrea, I did.

The 4.3L stroker from AEBS wouldn't hurt.

 

That will be very tough. CrawfordZCar in Nashville Tn. is in the process of an N/A build right now, with the goal being 300 RWHP. Their close, but not yet there. The Crawford guys know quite a lot about the VQ, and if they haven't don it yet, Well???? Go here:

https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....light=crawford


Lou

 

Lukesnyder,
Re-read my post, I said the JGTC GT300 cars, not the GT500 cars, big difference, the GT500 cars are the factory turbo cars with the 3.0. The GT300 cars use the NA VQ35.

Regarding GrandAm, GrandAm allows you to use whatever they want to let you use. They dont make you run parts "available to the general public". Their rulebook may say that, but its not true. Try purchasing any of the parts of the Ford Mustang FR500 at your local Ford dealer, or better yet go to your local Cadillac dealer and try to buy all the Carbon Fiber body panels off the Caddillac CTV, the parts guy will think your crazy and laugh at you.

The 350Z in GrandAm use the Nismo S1 camshafts, not the R-tune camshafts they sell in the US, there is a big difference between the two, and NO the GrandAm Cup cars do not use "All Nismo R-Tune parts." Outside of the Nismo S1 Camshafts and Headers, they use fabricated raceparts. Try buying a set of S1 camshafts at your local Nissan dealer.....

You are also wrong about overboaring the motor, GrandAm allows factory over-bore pistons to be installed up to "second oversize piston." You need to read their rule book a little closer.

Crawford may be getting 300hp with bolt ons, but to get anymore, is when you have to start spending the big $$$.

Yes you can build a 400whp Turbo car cheap, no the motor is probably not going to last 100k miles. But its not going to cost $30k to build a reliable motor. To take the block out and install low compression pistons does not cost anywhere near 30k, depending upon piston brand etc, and if you change any other internals, you could probably do this for as little as $5k. Yes if you want a fully built motor, will all new internals, head work different valves and pistons etc you are probably looking at $10-15k for the motor but 30k? No way, no unless you are also switching over to a stand alone engine management system like Motec or EFI.

 

GSC Motorsports is doing a full N/A build-up. I would look for their thread. Throttle-by-cable conversion, AEBS 4.3 stroker kit, standalone engine management, etc.

 

It's around $6k to get a built bottom end (SGP Racing, shipped price, great work too).