This thread in the 350Z section got me thinking. Basically, many people wonder how the K20 can get so much power out of such a small engine. Even if the 300whp claim is not true, I know 250whp’ish is true and that’s not bad.
https://my350z.com/forum/other-vehicles/243019-hey-howcome-the-k20-motor-responds-better-to-mods-than-vq.html
I came from a SR20 background (well really my first car was a 72 Datsun 510 back in the 80’s). I have done some search’s around here and thru google trying to find some good information on a NA setup for the VQ’s. This leads me to some questions.

1) Where are the people using longtube headers. We only have one set from what I have seen. No one is using them. Everyone seems to stick with shorties and conventional wisdom says those will never work very well overall. Some midrange gains but not the linear increase a good set of longtubes will give in the actual rpm band used if you redline the engine in every gear.
2) Where are the people using Cams? Cams are the heart of the whole thing. Got no love for the cams on this forum.
3) Just seems that no one really tries to push the VQ. They do the plenum mod to get tq, then some intake/and exhaust stuff. I just don’t see anyone who really has put the package together. At the same time people wonder why they don't get spectacular results in threads like the K20 thread above.

Am I just not finding the threads? All the threads I found are 100 post long and meander worse then a old river.

 

Forum consensus: It seems to be about the same price to go fi and make another 100whp than to build a n/a motor.

Longtubes loose torque and like you said there is only one company making them...XERD. Cams are really a big price jump...people rather spend the money on other parts i guess. A good heads and cams combo will only get you about 30ish whp. For 5k minimum...maybe installed...why?

btw...we have a few N/A people on here in the 260's and probably higher...i can't remember who but someone should be up in the 270's...Alberto maybe. I don't remember who it was. You can get 300whp but it will definately cost you some money.

 

Loosing Tq below the lowest rpm point a engine sees when shifting at redline is not an issue. HP above that point is all that matters. A properly cammed, engine with the proper headers and the basic I/H/E mods should be approaching the same whp range as it is rated chp from the factory. At least thats the norm with 4 cyl engines and other engines I have seen. It won't if you hamstring it with shorty headers and oem cams because you are worried about tq. Seems no one around here even gets close to that whp numbers approaching chp numbers. I also remember reading a R+T or maybe C+D comparision of 350Z's a while back. They had several SC 350Z's and JWT had a basic bolt on car. The SC cars were slow compared to the JWT car considering the JWT car supposedly had much less hp. IIRC the JWT car was within a couple tenth's in the 1/4 mile to the fastest SC car tested. Anyone know the article I am referring too?

 

TQ is what makes your car quick, hp makes it fast. I don't think many people on here care about flashing dyno sheets, it's all about how it performs on the track...where tq matters.

I'm no expert, just taking a shot at it.

I thought about going the crazy build N/A route but now i'm pretty sure i'm just going to spray it.

 

just look at my sig, and thats my numbers after 2hrs of tunning in 98% weather and 40% humidity...im sure my number are a bit high on a nice cool day..(270ish)

 

TQ and HP are directly related. You can't increase tq at any rpm with out having a proportional increase in HP at the same rpm. Said another way, they are just a matimatical equation away from being the exact same thing at the same rpm. HP/TQ within the window that the engine uses when shifting at redline and going thru the gears is what makes a car faster.

I am referring to a Dynojet Dyno. Most the others read lower. They are also getting more popular.

 

Actually Crawford makes long tube headers. Those are the only headers proven to perform. But u are right on the cams. People dont wanna spend 2-3K on buying, installing, and tuning a cam setup for 15whp. Alberto and many others have hit 260whp with bolt ons w/out headers or cams. Many header/cam guys are in the 280-290 range. Highest NA Z I have seen is Doug from Crawford at 296whp. Also there is Richie from australia making about 330-340whp but he did a full NA build.

 

Two Z cars ago I attanded 280rwh on a N/A motor. Cost a more than an fi motor to build. Here's a list:
CAI, Nismo cams, ported/polished/shaved heads, Nismo rod bolts, Nismo headers, high flow cats, Nismo exhaust, Nismo t-stat, Nismo oil cooler, underdrive pulley, 8lb flywheel, ECU programming.
This combo was totally drivable on the street and passes Calif smog.... as long as they didn't look too close.

 

dam those numbers sound low for the set up, but then again you probably tuned it to pass smog regulations...bummer!!!

 

Funny how people are making 280+whp without p&p heads. Something must have been wrong with those Z's. Unless they were out of tune with just raw 280whp. And I dont think those parts will cost more than a full FI build..

 

Sometimes I question the dyno numbers I've seen. When the car was new we were at 236rwh and used the same dyno and "tryed" to use the same conditions, temp etc. Technology has marched on in the past couple years so I don't doubt the tuning has come along much better than it was. Passing Calif emissions was the highest priority on the list. For the time and labor involved, I would lean toward FI.... as we are on our new project car.

 

The aussie is spinning above 9k iirc...very nice, i would love to have his setup.

 

I made 262whp 252ft/lbs with stock headers, stock cams, stock TB, every other bolt-on and a mail in tune. Netted me 13.1 @ 107mph, I was happy with my NA set-up. I have no doubt with the mods I didnt do and a 3.9FD could run 12.5 @ 109-110mph on slicks well driven <---thing is, nobody has or likely will do it!

edit-and that 1/4 I estimated isnt even getting into headwork or weight reduction. The more I think about it, a Revup with crazy heads, Tomei 268 cams, and all the mods with a great tune, 3.9FD, some weight reduction would really surprise a lot of people. 85% of stock block FI guys would be getting smoked down the 1/4....

 

With Alberto slamming your gears

It would be nice to see. And to give some hope.

 

Cosworth heads and Nismo Spec2 cams would allow great power to 8K plus rpm. The cams also cost 2500 and run a 284 degree duration with 11.5mm of lift. Crazy? maybe a little, but that's almost identical to the GT3 cam profile that helps make 415hp out of 3.6L at 8400rpm. The GT3 also uses variable timing only, no vvl, and only on the intake side. The VQ35DE is very similiar in its variable timing mechanism to the Variocam Porsche uses on the GT3. In addition, the Nismo CVTC gears give greater range than the Porsche engine has. In short, massive NA power should be possible with what's available, but for the price of everything, most will want to go FI and make even more power and way more torque. Shame, since the tuning aspect for big NA power is already done by Nizpro. They have a Motec M600 ecu that is all set to go if you have an installer and tuner to plug it in and work from there. They have theirs already set for S1 cams and the Nismo CVTC, but with the Cozzie heads and Spec2 cams a good tuner experienced with the Motec could certainly find great power. I imagine a 340 whp NA set-up is very attainable. For the price of your left nut.
Will

 

Left nut....SOLD.

 

Can you describe the complete mods?

Looking at some or your other lists of HP, it would seem that many of your are just a touch away from reaching the whp rating of the chp rating with basic bolt ons. I don't count headwork in that list but cams seem to be the thing nearly everyone is not doing and I would guess that if they did it would make many of you hit that mark. Cost is higher on a V6 then the 4cyl. Thats a big issue. I installed my own cams in my VE so it's not that big a deal, assueming I have a FSM and it's not too different/special tools. Thanks for the responses. I have a REV Up engine and I am thinking of doing cams first. Simple reason is they are usable NA or Turbo so that leaves me wide open for the future.

 

Stock Crawford are not long tube from my looking at the pictures. They look to bolt right up to the oem exhaust.

 

Brother, if you can find the info on the headers, I'll be impressed.
As for the cams. So many people are scared of the long install. Just like on any forum, really only a few people are camm'd anyway. I believe from my own lengthy searches that I have only seen one guy try and go for a lot n/a, and is still not over the 300whp mark. It's quite pathetic. (not aimed at anyone specific, but the VQ should absolutely pound N/A)

I bet it would be very hard to find someone with:
Ported TB, UP, LP
UTEC or other tuning system
I/H/TP/YP/YB
Pullys
cams
high comp pistons
fully bulit head
8.5k+ rpm's

But if you could, their car would OWN on the track. Nice, linear powerband, screaming all the way to 9k

 

Tony and I think alike