derek173

iTrader: (3)

Mobil 1 WAS a great oil, but it never showed good results on our engines.

derek173

iTrader: (3)

Why?? M1 makes an oil that is guaranteed for 15k, why not run the superior GC for 8k? Synthetic doesnt get affected by the age of the oil as much as regular dino. Oil in general has come a long way.. dont believe everything you have heard.. the days of 3k or 3 months on an oil are dead

Cannysage

iTrader: (29)

where did you get $6? i pay $2 a quart at walmart.

halfass872

iTrader: (35)

derek173, i'm starting to think you work for Castrol?? How much comission are they paying you to sell their product?? LOL. Seriously though, good info man. Thanks for taking the time to lay this all out for us!

Fluid1

iTrader: (19)

True. But the days of one YEAR and 8k miles are not 100% confirmed.

Hey, you want to test the boundaries? Great. Better your car than mine.

P.S. find me a filter that can take that kind of abuse. Your system is only as good as it's weakest component.

Fluid1

iTrader: (19)

It's a little bold for you to say 'never' isn't it? Unless, of course, you have diagnostic results from oil tests from every VQ that's ever run M1.

Wired 24/7

iTrader: (2)

Thanks a lot for the in-depth analysis. I would like to give this stuff a try too. I assume they also make a 5W-30?

All the stuff I've read about mobil (mobil1, mobil clean etc) oils on bobistheoilguy forums led me to believe that mobil is overpriced, overmarketed junk

Fluid1

iTrader: (19)

And you've missed the threads when other people had the same issue with the Greddy kit on stock blocks? lawl
Did you have an aftermarket pully?

derek173

iTrader: (3)

Well how about this, go find every UOA of M1 in a vq35 you can find, then you will see what I have seen 95% of the time...high lead content (bearing wear)

M1 was a great oil, but it just wasnt a good oil for the Vq35. Get back to me when your done with your research.

6894kevin

iTrader: (1)

Just called my local Autozone and asked for a price of the greman castrol and they were like "what?? we don't have that...... HU are you sure it's german"

What specifically should i ask for. Is it castrol 0w40?

I spoke with some young guy cause he was talking to someone else in the background as was saying "wow dude it's like totaly fast and i bet the tires smoke threw 4th gear and stuff" I Hate smart A$$ young guy's

thanks for the info, i just passed it on to my buddy who just put M1 into his 07WRX LOL

Cheers

Kevin

derek173

iTrader: (3)

I dont need to test boundries, scientists and all the people who are nice enough to post their UOAs did it for me. Listen do your research then comment....

I already posted a UOA on German castrol syntec that was run for 7500 miles with excellent results. It could have easily been run to 10k.

Ghost 350z

iTrader: (15)

Thanks for the info. I was about to do a oil change this week with M1 and now you have changed my mind

derek173

iTrader: (3)

Castrol Syntec 0w-30, European Formula, about $5.70 a quart

derek173

iTrader: (3)

No problem I am not a brand *****, I also use Pennzoil platinum and Halvoline maxlife synth. I like GC because its locally available, and is just as good as amsoil.

derek173

iTrader: (3)

are you sure cause I regularly see M1 in 5 quart jugs @ walmart for $20-$22. Are you sure you are talking about M1 syn? Mobil make cheaper non-syn oils

derek173

iTrader: (3)

For those worriesd about running a 0W oil


Thin Oil Myth
Created: April 10, 2006
Last Edited: Never

Disclaimer:
All the temperatures here are in celcius.

Short answer:
0w-30 and 5w-30 can be thicker than 10w-30.

Long answer: Read below.

Really Basic (but not so intuitive) information:

I'm sure we have all seen 5w-30, 10w-30, 10w-40, 20w-50, but what does it mean?
When talking about viscosities, you must state the temperature.

Lets break this up into two categories: hot and cold.

Xw-20, Xw-30, Xw-40, etc (HOT!)
This is your oil's hot viscosity. The viscosity is measured @ 100c.
This number is relative when the engine is warmed up.
The most common unit is cST. The larger the number, the "thicker" the oil.

Examples
A "30" weight is between 9.30-12.49 cST @ 100c.
A "40" weight is between 12.50-16.29 cST @ 100c



"Why isn't 5w-30 or 0w-30 thin?"
I think a real-life example will help.

Lets compare Mobil1 5w-30 to Mobil1 10w-30.

First the Hot (100 c) setting
Straight from Mobil1's datasheet (Looked on April 4, 2006):

5w-30 = 11.3 cST
10w-30 = 10.0 cST

Looks like the 5w-30 is thicker! (Notice how both oils are a "30" weight)


Now lets look at the cold setting
Based on the 5w and 10w specifications:

5w-30 = 6600 cP or less @ -30c
10w-30 = 7000 cp or less @ -25c

Looks like 5w-30 is thinner than 10w-30!
We can conclude that:

5w-30 is thinner than 10w-30 at -25c.
5w-30 is thicker than 10w-30 at 100c.

The above implies that 5w-30 thins out less than 10w-30 as temperature increases.


My main points are:

5w-30 can be thicker than 10w-30.
0w-30 can be thicker than 5w-30.

Wired 24/7

iTrader: (2)

Well, the information you posted is basically correct, but I'll add some things:

If you are running a 5W-30 versus a 0W-30, those 2 oils start from different base stocks of different weights. Multi-weight oils are basically oils that have polymers attached to them.

I believe in race applications, most of the time they don't use multi-weight oil because they don't want polymer in the engine (I could be wrong about this though...) for example, race motors might use a 30W oil (non-multiweight).

When COLD the polymers are coiled and the oil will behave basically like its base oil (first "W" number).

When HOT the polymers uncoil, making the oil thicker and it protects SIMILARLY to an oil of weight noted after the dash.

So a 0W-30 protects like a 0W (non-multiweight oil) when cold, and protects like a 30W oil when hot.

In order to make a bigger spread between the first "W" number and the second number (after the dash), they need to add more polymer.

So basically... IMO it is better to use an oil that has a tighter spread. No engine benefits from having more polymer in the oil, so you should pick an oil that is closest to the weight you need. Since polymers can shear off their oil molecules, there's a possibility for them to burn up and make deposits in the engine...

That is why I'd rather put a 5W-30 in the car (less spread between the numbers) than a 0W-30...

This is just what I choose to believe, not that I think you're going to be FUCT if you use a 0W- but I'd rather have a little more protection when cold.

I know they should theoretically protect the same, but the 5W-30 will have less polymer in it, and will also be a bit heavier when cold, preventing some of that burn off when the engine is cold.


You can have your opinions about the weight of the oil you choose. But my research has led me to believe that you should pick a multi-weight oil with the minimum spread that fits your application.

Swiffer

iTrader: (8)

Ahhh crap. I just bought a 5 quart jug of M1 a month ago for my oil change in a week or two Oh well...

derek173

iTrader: (3)

the German castrol is only 0w-30, the other grades are not a true syn

derek173

iTrader: (3)

I posted your comments on the oil forum to see what they had to say about this since I really dont know.

here are the replys

In general, he is correct, especially with dino oil. Synthetics need less VII (polymer) to achieve a multi-weight function. The less VII in the oil, the more stable.

I do believe, though, that all 0W30 oils are at least semi-synthetic.

Polymers have come a long way from what was used in the 1st multigrade oils, where much of the worn polymer deposits stories come from. Most engines will benefit more from a multi-visc oil vs. single weight, despite any supposed problem with added polymer, IMO. Sheared polymer isn't completly dead either, there have been tests that show some antiwear ability from it's presence. I do agree though that too much of anything is not a good thing.

This post is from a moderator on the oil forum, He ran several UOAs on his G35 with German Castrol. His UOA is the one I have in my first post

Derek, there are some pretty serious problems with that. It seems to show a half-baked understanding of what's going on, and a lot of supposition and confusion. Consider some of the cutting edge, advanced 0w-30 oils. In general, these will depend in large part upon the characteristics of the base oil to achieve multi-grade characteristics, not so much on polymer VIIs (perhaps not at all). In on instance (GC) also, it appears that the VII used are "exotic" compounds probably not subject to the claimed failings of "polymers" at all (or very little).





This reply is from Terry Dyson who makes a living analysing oil, if you send an oil sample to blackstone labs you pay extra for him to interpret the reading.

Current polymer chemistry is indeed better than in the past but there is a SERIOUS issue currently with aromatics damage of motor oils going unreported by MOST labs in automotive testing. A more shear stable VII and other adds improve resistance to this but it costs a lot to make that kind of motor oil.
Dyson provides prof.lube analysis/consult. NO lube or additive products are marketed.