ls1 for the z?
05-16-2007, 12:19 PM
#61
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: vancouver
Posts: 7,192
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Blk03G35
Probably already mentioned but it's "Warranty" 
As for installing an LS1. Eh.. Why don't you just buy an f-body? Much cheaper
As for installing an LS1. Eh.. Why don't you just buy an f-body? Much cheaper
probably because an f-body sucks?
05-16-2007, 01:17 PM
#62
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Room full of blood
Posts: 2,422
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by turismo
IF you researched, you would know, that I had the PE kit.
So, did it make any difference being all "mad JDM tyte, yo"?
05-16-2007, 02:34 PM
#63
Registered User
iTrader: (10)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: one of the 5 boros, NY
Posts: 2,704
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
warhawks have a bad reputation with bearing clearances wich have led to flow and pressure problems. Basically warhawk motors drain oil pans....
Plus the warhawk is basically an LS7 block which also happens to be aluminum.....i dunno what the big deal about a cast iron block is when staying N/A....my JWT turbo added 100lbs to the front end of my Z....this motor will weigh less than my TTVQ
Plus the warhawk is basically an LS7 block which also happens to be aluminum.....i dunno what the big deal about a cast iron block is when staying N/A....my JWT turbo added 100lbs to the front end of my Z....this motor will weigh less than my TTVQ
05-16-2007, 02:50 PM
#64
Registered User
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Seattle (area), WA
Posts: 2,921
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i wasn't aware of the issues taht the warhawk had issues, i've been out of the lsx loop since i killed my idea of swapping an lsx into my s14. what do u mean by drain oil pans?
the warhawk isn't an ls7 block though, it has completely different oil passages and 6 bolts per cylinder, they were claiming that their oil passages would take care of all the oiling problems and wouldn't have the need for dry sump
does this motor weigh less than a na vq?
educate me, i'm eager to learn
the warhawk isn't an ls7 block though, it has completely different oil passages and 6 bolts per cylinder, they were claiming that their oil passages would take care of all the oiling problems and wouldn't have the need for dry sump
does this motor weigh less than a na vq?
educate me, i'm eager to learn
05-17-2007, 07:43 AM
#66
Registered User
iTrader: (10)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: one of the 5 boros, NY
Posts: 2,704
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by warmmilk
i wasn't aware of the issues taht the warhawk had issues, i've been out of the lsx loop since i killed my idea of swapping an lsx into my s14. what do u mean by drain oil pans?
the warhawk isn't an ls7 block though, it has completely different oil passages and 6 bolts per cylinder, they were claiming that their oil passages would take care of all the oiling problems and wouldn't have the need for dry sump
does this motor weigh less than a na vq?
educate me, i'm eager to learn
the warhawk isn't an ls7 block though, it has completely different oil passages and 6 bolts per cylinder, they were claiming that their oil passages would take care of all the oiling problems and wouldn't have the need for dry sump
does this motor weigh less than a na vq?
educate me, i'm eager to learn
Basically thier clearances have led to many documented situations where the oil gets pushed into teh head much faster than it can drain back into the pan...not good!
The warhawk motor is also an upgraded C5R motor (aftermarket) that addressed issues such as the liners not holding up to high boost like people experienced with LS7's. The LSX is GM's answer to the warhawk and being iron SOLVES the liner problem.
05-17-2007, 07:55 AM
#67
Registered User
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Philly
Posts: 516
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How much will your iron block LSX motor weigh when all build (minus NOS, which I thought I remember reading in this thread you were thinking about)? How much does an all aluminum LS2, LS3 or LS7 cost?
Is it safe to presume that the $9k out the door for a worked 400rwhp LS2 would be in the same neighborhood for an LS3 or LS7 (plus the difference in price for those crate motors -- and yes I understand there are serval thousand dollars difference in the cost of those crate motors)?
Is it safe to presume that the $9k out the door for a worked 400rwhp LS2 would be in the same neighborhood for an LS3 or LS7 (plus the difference in price for those crate motors -- and yes I understand there are serval thousand dollars difference in the cost of those crate motors)?
05-17-2007, 11:17 AM
#68
Registered User
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Seattle (area), WA
Posts: 2,921
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Sk8fe
How much will your iron block LSX motor weigh when all build (minus NOS, which I thought I remember reading in this thread you were thinking about)? How much does an all aluminum LS2, LS3 or LS7 cost?
Is it safe to presume that the $9k out the door for a worked 400rwhp LS2 would be in the same neighborhood for an LS3 or LS7 (plus the difference in price for those crate motors -- and yes I understand there are serval thousand dollars difference in the cost of those crate motors)?
Is it safe to presume that the $9k out the door for a worked 400rwhp LS2 would be in the same neighborhood for an LS3 or LS7 (plus the difference in price for those crate motors -- and yes I understand there are serval thousand dollars difference in the cost of those crate motors)?
400whp in an ls2 is a cam away, well headers and exhaust to, but you'd have that when u swap over the motor. go check out corvetteforum.com, most of the people running intake, headers, exhaust, and cam r putting down 420-440whp. 370-390 with just bolt ons
oh yeah, u need a tune to go along with the cam
05-17-2007, 11:42 AM
#69
Registered User
iTrader: (33)
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: curl lookin boy
Posts: 8,448
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by 702Fairlady
Because the domestic engine is more reliable at high horsepower numbers. I'm not trying to bash the import motor, because the japanese have figured out how to get a lot of power out of smaller displacement engines. The japanese dont design their engines to be superpowerful because there is really nowhere to open them up. They are engineered to be fast in and out of corners, which is why imports rule on the road courses. The domestic market has always been about sheer power and straight line perfomance and being able to handle high horsepower reliably. So why not be able to have the best of both worlds?
Since the LS series of engines is actually lighter than or equal in weight to the VQ, with some suspension upgrades you could retain the agility of the Z in turns and on road courses, with the sheer horsepower of the american muscle car. Plus, parts in the import market are so expensive. The LS series engine has huge aftermarket support, at affordable costs.
Since you believe that an import engine should go into the car, give us an idea of what you are thinking of. Only engines I can see that would even be considered would be:
RB26 (Parts are hard to come by, and people to work on them even harder)
VG30 (Iron block good for F/I, but known for being prone to many problems)
SR20 (Why would you want to go down to a 4cyl in a fairly heavy vehicle?)
2JZ (Engine puts out alot of good horsepower, but finding a good block at a decent price is difficult.)
Since the LS series of engines is actually lighter than or equal in weight to the VQ, with some suspension upgrades you could retain the agility of the Z in turns and on road courses, with the sheer horsepower of the american muscle car. Plus, parts in the import market are so expensive. The LS series engine has huge aftermarket support, at affordable costs.
Since you believe that an import engine should go into the car, give us an idea of what you are thinking of. Only engines I can see that would even be considered would be:
RB26 (Parts are hard to come by, and people to work on them even harder)
VG30 (Iron block good for F/I, but known for being prone to many problems)
SR20 (Why would you want to go down to a 4cyl in a fairly heavy vehicle?)
2JZ (Engine puts out alot of good horsepower, but finding a good block at a decent price is difficult.)
Originally Posted by hardrock905
That's just one example. The VQ is very close to putting out the same #'s as the current mustang 4.6 liter V8 as well.
In fact, the HR engine is putting out more HP than the mustang and is pretty damn close in the torque department.
In fact, the HR engine is putting out more HP than the mustang and is pretty damn close in the torque department.
I find it ironic, that the people that would swap out their motors for LSx based motors, are swapping in my opinion an inferior motor. Pushrod motor dont flow as well and typically dont make as much power as DOHC motors. There are so many more advanced motors out with less displacement that are producing the same power(not as much torque) as any lsx based platform.
People say well "Twin turbo ls1 would own a twin turbo 350z" becuase of the displacement advantage. I disagree! I hate to go into this ricer math equations, but look at the difference in power/per lb of boost, on lets say the new C6 Z06 with an APS kit. APS, just released a kit, utilizing the same twin gt30r's as on our own 350z's. The kit at 7-8psi, made 600rwhp, which is about 140hp more than stock. This sounds like alot more than the 350, it is, but the C6 also makes 200hp more than our cars stock! The same can be said about the ls1 and this is why, I would continually walk my friends procharged ls1 with similar power level( my old PE kit).
Just some examples of motor with less displacement and more power:
Porshe: 3.6 liter-415hp> ls1
M5: 5.0 liter-500hp> ls7( would be owned, if they were the same weight)
M3: 3.2 liter-333hp> ls1, ls2
S2000 2.0 liter- 240hp> pre 06 4.6 liter mustang
rsx- 2.0 liter> any V6 camaro or mustang, despite having less liters
etc....
and if displacement owned, then why is the Z06 faster than a viper? Until I see a factory based platform, like the VQ, 2jz, RB26, etc.... in the low 7's and mid 6's at over 218mph, then they can talk to me about motor swaps. There are NO factory based ls1(motors that came with the car), ls2, ls3, ls7, viper, cobra etc..... in the mid 6's compared to any of those 3.5-4.3 liter V6 and inline 6 motors. To me thats pathetic, if you want to talk about liters and displacement.
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r...ts/855rwhp.jpg
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p...6/F1RDyno3.jpg
built 347ci 18-19psi through a supercharger
Which would you choose?
Last edited by turismo; 05-17-2007 at 12:14 PM.
05-17-2007, 12:32 PM
#70
Registered User
iTrader: (10)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: one of the 5 boros, NY
Posts: 2,704
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OH GOD.....
There are plenty of DOMESTIC motors that consistently win the salt flat's speed challanges......
I distinctly remember the C5R winning the 24hrs of lemans....and the C6R just got it's 4th consecutive 1-2 finish.....
name one japanese car or manufacturer that has this record...pretty damn good for a pushrod motor i would think......factor in budget and aftermarket support and guess what...
you're wrong buddy!!!!!!!!!!
I want a car I can abuse while I drive.....a car than can win the 24 hrs of lemas seems more than sufficient...maybe that's why they don't make 6sec 1/4 mile cars...they're too busy winning in a motorsport that counts!!!!!!
There are plenty of DOMESTIC motors that consistently win the salt flat's speed challanges......
I distinctly remember the C5R winning the 24hrs of lemans....and the C6R just got it's 4th consecutive 1-2 finish.....
name one japanese car or manufacturer that has this record...pretty damn good for a pushrod motor i would think......factor in budget and aftermarket support and guess what...
you're wrong buddy!!!!!!!!!!
I want a car I can abuse while I drive.....a car than can win the 24 hrs of lemas seems more than sufficient...maybe that's why they don't make 6sec 1/4 mile cars...they're too busy winning in a motorsport that counts!!!!!!
Last edited by NoahzBurnt; 05-17-2007 at 12:35 PM.
05-17-2007, 01:02 PM
#71
Registered User
iTrader: (33)
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: curl lookin boy
Posts: 8,448
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by NoahzBurnt
OH GOD.....
There are plenty of DOMESTIC motors that consistently win the salt flat's speed challanges......
I distinctly remember the C5R winning the 24hrs of lemans....and the C6R just got it's 4th consecutive 1-2 finish.....
name one japanese car or manufacturer that has this record...pretty damn good for a pushrod motor i would think......factor in budget and aftermarket support and guess what...
you're wrong buddy!!!!!!!!!!
I want a car I can abuse while I drive.....a car than can win the 24 hrs of lemas seems more than sufficient...maybe that's why they don't make 6sec 1/4 mile cars...they're too busy winning in a motorsport that counts!!!!!!
There are plenty of DOMESTIC motors that consistently win the salt flat's speed challanges......
I distinctly remember the C5R winning the 24hrs of lemans....and the C6R just got it's 4th consecutive 1-2 finish.....
name one japanese car or manufacturer that has this record...pretty damn good for a pushrod motor i would think......factor in budget and aftermarket support and guess what...
you're wrong buddy!!!!!!!!!!
I want a car I can abuse while I drive.....a car than can win the 24 hrs of lemas seems more than sufficient...maybe that's why they don't make 6sec 1/4 mile cars...they're too busy winning in a motorsport that counts!!!!!!
GTR, has more of an impressive record than the vette. Vette was never kicked out of any races, for winning years consecutively.
IF you want a car, that can win Le Mans, then you need to call up Cheby and fork over 150k then. What you are doing, is not remotely close, to whats in those cars. And if you want a car you can beat everyday, why dont you choose one, that has won motor of the year, for like 10years straight.
"Nissan Motor Co. Ltd. 3L DOHC V-6 It's becoming a habit, this business of telling readers that Nissan Motor Co. Ltd.'s "VQ" 3L DOHC V-6 has won yet another 10 Best Engines Award. Securing a place on this year's list ties Nissan with BMW as the only manufacturer to place the same engine for six consecutive years.( this was in year 2000)
How else to describe the VQ but pre-eminent? The inherent excellence of this design absolutely stunned us - and many of Nissan's competitors - when launched for the '95 model year, and the same basic engine today still stands out from a growing cadre of sophisticated V-6 engines.
The VQ's uncanny refinement and lack of vibration always seemed practically supernatural; it's unrivaled noise, vibration and harshness characteristics are a large contributor to the VQ V-6's insouciant, exuberant power delivery."
05-17-2007, 01:15 PM
#72
Registered User
iTrader: (10)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: one of the 5 boros, NY
Posts: 2,704
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
First off I am running a near identical motor to the C6R...not comparing cars MOTORS...i picked a motor before....it sucked...i twin turboed it...added a $2500 clutch u name it...it still sucked....V6's are great.....but v8's are better
sorry to offend you...but the al misghty maxima i mean Z motor is good...but there is better.....sure I would have done a V12 rear engine conversion on my Z if I had enuff $.....I don't so i went with the next best thing....a 7.4L with a lot of laughing gas...........
oh yeah...gtr never had 4 consective 1-2 victories...that means not just 1 but 2 "pushrods" are winning.....
TuRISMO...i wage a guess that u own the same autobahn motorsports that built your long block......and you are sad to see a cheaper and more viable option come along that may offer competition for your business....i really cannot see any other reason why you would waste your time arguing something u have no control over....
sorry to offend you...but the al misghty maxima i mean Z motor is good...but there is better.....sure I would have done a V12 rear engine conversion on my Z if I had enuff $.....I don't so i went with the next best thing....a 7.4L with a lot of laughing gas...........
oh yeah...gtr never had 4 consective 1-2 victories...that means not just 1 but 2 "pushrods" are winning.....
TuRISMO...i wage a guess that u own the same autobahn motorsports that built your long block......and you are sad to see a cheaper and more viable option come along that may offer competition for your business....i really cannot see any other reason why you would waste your time arguing something u have no control over....
Last edited by NoahzBurnt; 05-17-2007 at 01:19 PM.
05-17-2007, 01:23 PM
#73
Registered User
iTrader: (10)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: one of the 5 boros, NY
Posts: 2,704
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
actually i take that back....after looking at thier site and reading your posts.....you write quite eloquently...and that site is broken engrish!!!
Sorry for jumping to conclusions buddy
Sorry for jumping to conclusions buddy
05-17-2007, 01:23 PM
#74
Registered User
iTrader: (33)
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: curl lookin boy
Posts: 8,448
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by NoahzBurnt
First off I am running a near identical motor to the C6R...not comparing cars MOTORS...i picked a motor before....it sucked...i twin turboed it...added a $2500 clutch u name it...it still sucked....V6's are great.....but v8's are better
sorry to offend you...but the al misghty maxima i mean Z motor is good...but there is better.....sure I would have done a V12 rear engine conversion on my Z if I had enuff $.....I don't so i went with the next best thing....a 7.4L with a lot of laughing gas...........
oh yeah...gtr never had 4 consective 1-2 victories...that means not just 1 but 2 "pushrods" are winning.....
sorry to offend you...but the al misghty maxima i mean Z motor is good...but there is better.....sure I would have done a V12 rear engine conversion on my Z if I had enuff $.....I don't so i went with the next best thing....a 7.4L with a lot of laughing gas...........
oh yeah...gtr never had 4 consective 1-2 victories...that means not just 1 but 2 "pushrods" are winning.....
Trust me, Im far from being offended and I think its a noteable debate.
There plenty of people riding around "reliably" in there twin 350z. The Lsx motors, have been around, alot longer than the VQ35 and therefor, have an extensive line of parts, offered for cheap. If you want to break it down and see how much it would cost, to build a 1500rwhp motor, it would cost nearly the same!
05-17-2007, 01:25 PM
#75
Registered User
iTrader: (33)
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: curl lookin boy
Posts: 8,448
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by NoahzBurnt
First off I am running a near identical motor to the C6R...not comparing cars MOTORS...i picked a motor before....it sucked...i twin turboed it...added a $2500 clutch u name it...it still sucked....V6's are great.....but v8's are better
sorry to offend you...but the al misghty maxima i mean Z motor is good...but there is better.....sure I would have done a V12 rear engine conversion on my Z if I had enuff $.....I don't so i went with the next best thing....a 7.4L with a lot of laughing gas...........
oh yeah...gtr never had 4 consective 1-2 victories...that means not just 1 but 2 "pushrods" are winning.....
TuRISMO...i wage a guess that u own the same autobahn motorsports that built your long block......and you are sad to see a cheaper and more viable option come along that may offer competition for your business....i really cannot see any other reason why you would waste your time arguing something u have no control over....
sorry to offend you...but the al misghty maxima i mean Z motor is good...but there is better.....sure I would have done a V12 rear engine conversion on my Z if I had enuff $.....I don't so i went with the next best thing....a 7.4L with a lot of laughing gas...........
oh yeah...gtr never had 4 consective 1-2 victories...that means not just 1 but 2 "pushrods" are winning.....
TuRISMO...i wage a guess that u own the same autobahn motorsports that built your long block......and you are sad to see a cheaper and more viable option come along that may offer competition for your business....i really cannot see any other reason why you would waste your time arguing something u have no control over....
Yes they built my car, what does this have to do with anything? In total, how much are you going to end up spending, after you have finished your complete project?
05-17-2007, 01:32 PM
#76
Registered User
iTrader: (10)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: one of the 5 boros, NY
Posts: 2,704
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i agree that they are both great motors....I went your route...it was fun but ehhhhh....I am now going over to the dark side.....if that too sucks...well i'm driving my car straight into the classified sections....(kidding i'll boost it!!!)
in all honesty this debate can go on and on due to the fact that it is opinionated and cannot be based on facts at this time.....this is like arguing if there is a god to a religious person if you believe soley in evolution....
I will guarantee one thing......your opinion is a good one...but it's not stopping me or anybody else from doing this swap.
in all honesty this debate can go on and on due to the fact that it is opinionated and cannot be based on facts at this time.....this is like arguing if there is a god to a religious person if you believe soley in evolution....
I will guarantee one thing......your opinion is a good one...but it's not stopping me or anybody else from doing this swap.
Last edited by NoahzBurnt; 05-17-2007 at 01:46 PM.
05-17-2007, 01:41 PM
#77
Turismo:
One thing to consider is that while your displacement to power example is true I think you are overlooking the aftermarket power gains. Some of those motors gain more horsepower from an exhaust then the Z does from test pipes, exhaust and intake. That leads me to believe that while those engine do produce less power per displacement they have more under the table then our motors.
One thing to consider is that while your displacement to power example is true I think you are overlooking the aftermarket power gains. Some of those motors gain more horsepower from an exhaust then the Z does from test pipes, exhaust and intake. That leads me to believe that while those engine do produce less power per displacement they have more under the table then our motors.
05-17-2007, 01:43 PM
#79
Registered User
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Posts: 715
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So you are telling me that you wouldnt put an engine capable of 1000+whp on a 300 shot of nitrous in your Z?
OK lets give you the breakdown of why this would be a good swap in power to dollars spent.
Lets say our goal here is 425whp.
Nissan VQ35:
Turbonetics Single: $5000
Exhuast: $900
Test Pipes: $250
UTEC: $800
Misc Guages: $400
New clutch/Flywheel: $500
Installation/Tuning: $1500
TOTAL: $9350
Now, you are now at the limits of the VQ35's stock internals. Everyday you are wondering if one little boost spike or a weak component is going to bend a connecting rod or send one through your through your block.
Now we install that LS2 for 9K have that same 425whp RELIABLY on stock internals. I know I can beat on that engine all day and not worry about it breaking. Not to mention I now have the Tremec T56 tranny that is getting me near 30MPG while you are getting just south of 20.
Which is the better choice?
OK lets give you the breakdown of why this would be a good swap in power to dollars spent.
Lets say our goal here is 425whp.
Nissan VQ35:
Turbonetics Single: $5000
Exhuast: $900
Test Pipes: $250
UTEC: $800
Misc Guages: $400
New clutch/Flywheel: $500
Installation/Tuning: $1500
TOTAL: $9350
Now, you are now at the limits of the VQ35's stock internals. Everyday you are wondering if one little boost spike or a weak component is going to bend a connecting rod or send one through your through your block.
Now we install that LS2 for 9K have that same 425whp RELIABLY on stock internals. I know I can beat on that engine all day and not worry about it breaking. Not to mention I now have the Tremec T56 tranny that is getting me near 30MPG while you are getting just south of 20.
Which is the better choice?