ls1 for the z?
05-17-2007, 02:00 PM
#83
Registered User
iTrader: (33)
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: curl lookin boy
Posts: 8,448
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by 702Fairlady
So you are telling me that you wouldnt put an engine capable of 1000+whp on a 300 shot of nitrous in your Z?
OK lets give you the breakdown of why this would be a good swap in power to dollars spent.
Lets say our goal here is 425whp.
Nissan VQ35:
Turbonetics Single: $5000
Exhuast: $900
Test Pipes: $250
UTEC: $800
Misc Guages: $400
New clutch/Flywheel: $500
Installation/Tuning: $1500
TOTAL: $9350
Now, you are now at the limits of the VQ35's stock internals. Everyday you are wondering if one little boost spike or a weak component is going to bend a connecting rod or send one through your through your block.
Now we install that LS2 for 9K have that same 425whp RELIABLY on stock internals. I know I can beat on that engine all day and not worry about it breaking. Not to mention I now have the Tremec T56 tranny that is getting me near 30MPG while you are getting just south of 20.
Which is the better choice?
OK lets give you the breakdown of why this would be a good swap in power to dollars spent.
Lets say our goal here is 425whp.
Nissan VQ35:
Turbonetics Single: $5000
Exhuast: $900
Test Pipes: $250
UTEC: $800
Misc Guages: $400
New clutch/Flywheel: $500
Installation/Tuning: $1500
TOTAL: $9350
Now, you are now at the limits of the VQ35's stock internals. Everyday you are wondering if one little boost spike or a weak component is going to bend a connecting rod or send one through your through your block.
Now we install that LS2 for 9K have that same 425whp RELIABLY on stock internals. I know I can beat on that engine all day and not worry about it breaking. Not to mention I now have the Tremec T56 tranny that is getting me near 30MPG while you are getting just south of 20.
Which is the better choice?
By your own example, we have two cars with identical hp goals. The VQ, has shown to be quite reliable at those power levels. Now, if we where to take it to the next level, all I would need, is a built longblock, while you would need, a twin and a built block.
9k for lsx install
7k for aps twin kit(keeping things equal here)
2.5k clutch
2k for fuel
2k suspension
700 gauges
2k tuning/install
Your looking at close to 30k in the ls1, which is 8k more than I spent in mine. And if you want to talk about prices, go look at MTI prices on their stroker kits. 19k for 550rwhp, Lingenfelter(sp) 150k for a built motor/turbo, etc......
05-17-2007, 02:02 PM
#84
Registered User
iTrader: (33)
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: curl lookin boy
Posts: 8,448
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by S8ER95Z
Did someone just state the LS1 was Iron and not aluminum??
Wow.
Wow.
05-17-2007, 02:06 PM
#85
Registered User
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Posts: 715
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wrong because that 7K for the APS turbo would have went towards a $1500-$2000 setup for a 300 shot direct port nitrous system that the LSX can handle.
05-17-2007, 02:13 PM
#87
Registered User
iTrader: (33)
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: curl lookin boy
Posts: 8,448
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by 702Fairlady
And what exactly do you mean by $2000 for fuel? Are you talking about race gas?
At the same time, we can build a 4.3 liter stroked out VQ with a 300 shot.
When I mean fuel, Im talking about the whole fuel system:
injectors-500
fuel pump- 500
fuel rails and fittings 500-700
regulator-200
etc....
05-17-2007, 02:27 PM
#88
Registered User
iTrader: (10)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: one of the 5 boros, NY
Posts: 2,704
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
guys one thing....9K for an LS swap if HInson does it,
LS2 DIY is ~$6500 - $1000 for NISSAN 6 speed - $4000 for VQ long block -$200 factory exhaust
$1300 more than a stock VQ
LS2 DIY is ~$6500 - $1000 for NISSAN 6 speed - $4000 for VQ long block -$200 factory exhaust
$1300 more than a stock VQ
05-17-2007, 03:13 PM
#89
Registered User
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Philly
Posts: 516
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why did we all of a sudden jump to twins as the "next level"? That is like the third level in my mind. I don't mean to nit-pik, but LSn (1,2,3,7, etc) motors get very decent power gains by adding a Maggie blower or other supercharger. That to me is the "next level" and the level after that would be twins, but maybe I see the power adder "ladder" differently.
05-17-2007, 03:17 PM
#90
Registered User
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Philly
Posts: 516
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Like anything in life it boils down to money and where you want to spend yours. There will always be purists and those who need to lay their own two stripes on the blacktop -- they are like oil and water...
05-17-2007, 04:55 PM
#91
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Houston
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I just want u guys to know my story. I went with a 2004 M45 engine and my g35 to sgp knowing that both engines use the same transmission, I found out that theres still mounting, making space, making sure the chassis can handle a v8, correct ecu tuning, the list goes on. So just know what your getting yourself into. -cough- 20,000.
05-18-2007, 12:12 PM
#92
Registered User
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Seattle (area), WA
Posts: 2,921
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i'm not saying the the ls-series is the best engine in the world, but is a damn good one.
ur saying that the vq has been proven reliable to 425 whp, yet there r plenty of stories on here about vq's going out at less than that
the ls2 (which would be my choice if i were to go through with the swap) is dead reliable at 425whp with a cam as the only internal mod. the only way to blow that engine is to over rev (going into 2nd at 100+ for example)
and for people that wanna preserve handle (there is life outside of the 6 sec 1/4 time) the ls2 is a light engine which has a flat torque curve, great for road racing. all the other engines u mentioned are considerable heavier and alot of them wouldn't fit (m5's v10,
the ls2 (which would be my choice if i were to go through with the swap) is dead reliable at 425whp with a cam as the only internal mod. the only way to blow that engine is to over rev (going into 2nd at 100+ for example)
and for people that wanna preserve handle (there is life outside of the 6 sec 1/4 time) the ls2 is a light engine which has a flat torque curve, great for road racing. all the other engines u mentioned are considerable heavier and alot of them wouldn't fit, like the m5's v10, and i doubt the gt3's flat 6 would fit cause of how wide it is.
and u can't claim that the m5 would be faster than the z06 if it were the same weight with out any proof. i'm not saying this isn't true, but if i had to bet on everything else being equal in cars other the the v10 or the ls7, my money would go on the ls7, they both r rated at the same hp with the ls7 having considerably more torque
and another thing, i've never seen a mear mortal with an na vq that put out anywhere near 400whp (factory built race engines don't count), if there was, i'd be planning on that some time down the road if the price is comparable to the ls2 swap. but as of right now (my mind changes hourly as far as what type of mods i wanna do to my car, but i'd take an ls powered z over a tt z any day) i plan on doing this swap a year or so down the road
*edit*
btw, most of this post is my response to all the american engine bashing produced my turismo for no other reason (that i could find) other than it being an american engine, oh, and it has push rods, boo hoo
ur saying that the vq has been proven reliable to 425 whp, yet there r plenty of stories on here about vq's going out at less than that
the ls2 (which would be my choice if i were to go through with the swap) is dead reliable at 425whp with a cam as the only internal mod. the only way to blow that engine is to over rev (going into 2nd at 100+ for example)
and for people that wanna preserve handle (there is life outside of the 6 sec 1/4 time) the ls2 is a light engine which has a flat torque curve, great for road racing. all the other engines u mentioned are considerable heavier and alot of them wouldn't fit (m5's v10,
the ls2 (which would be my choice if i were to go through with the swap) is dead reliable at 425whp with a cam as the only internal mod. the only way to blow that engine is to over rev (going into 2nd at 100+ for example)
and for people that wanna preserve handle (there is life outside of the 6 sec 1/4 time) the ls2 is a light engine which has a flat torque curve, great for road racing. all the other engines u mentioned are considerable heavier and alot of them wouldn't fit, like the m5's v10, and i doubt the gt3's flat 6 would fit cause of how wide it is.
and u can't claim that the m5 would be faster than the z06 if it were the same weight with out any proof. i'm not saying this isn't true, but if i had to bet on everything else being equal in cars other the the v10 or the ls7, my money would go on the ls7, they both r rated at the same hp with the ls7 having considerably more torque
and another thing, i've never seen a mear mortal with an na vq that put out anywhere near 400whp (factory built race engines don't count), if there was, i'd be planning on that some time down the road if the price is comparable to the ls2 swap. but as of right now (my mind changes hourly as far as what type of mods i wanna do to my car, but i'd take an ls powered z over a tt z any day) i plan on doing this swap a year or so down the road
*edit*
btw, most of this post is my response to all the american engine bashing produced my turismo for no other reason (that i could find) other than it being an american engine, oh, and it has push rods, boo hoo
05-18-2007, 12:29 PM
#93
Registered User
iTrader: (33)
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: curl lookin boy
Posts: 8,448
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by warmmilk
i'm not saying the the ls-series is the best engine in the world, but is a damn good one.
ur saying that the vq has been proven reliable to 425 whp, yet there r plenty of stories on here about vq's going out at less than that
the ls2 (which would be my choice if i were to go through with the swap) is dead reliable at 425whp with a cam as the only internal mod. the only way to blow that engine is to over rev (going into 2nd at 100+ for example)
and for people that wanna preserve handle (there is life outside of the 6 sec 1/4 time) the ls2 is a light engine which has a flat torque curve, great for road racing. all the other engines u mentioned are considerable heavier and alot of them wouldn't fit (m5's v10,
the ls2 (which would be my choice if i were to go through with the swap) is dead reliable at 425whp with a cam as the only internal mod. the only way to blow that engine is to over rev (going into 2nd at 100+ for example)
and for people that wanna preserve handle (there is life outside of the 6 sec 1/4 time) the ls2 is a light engine which has a flat torque curve, great for road racing. all the other engines u mentioned are considerable heavier and alot of them wouldn't fit, like the m5's v10, and i doubt the gt3's flat 6 would fit cause of how wide it is.
and u can't claim that the m5 would be faster than the z06 if it were the same weight with out any proof. i'm not saying this isn't true, but if i had to bet on everything else being equal in cars other the the v10 or the ls7, my money would go on the ls7, they both r rated at the same hp with the ls7 having considerably more torque
and another thing, i've never seen a mear mortal with an na vq that put out anywhere near 400whp (factory built race engines don't count), if there was, i'd be planning on that some time down the road if the price is comparable to the ls2 swap. but as of right now (my mind changes hourly as far as what type of mods i wanna do to my car, but i'd take an ls powered z over a tt z any day) i plan on doing this swap a year or so down the road
*edit*
btw, most of this post is my response to all the american engine bashing produced my turismo for no other reason (that i could find) other than it being an american engine, oh, and it has push rods, boo hoo
ur saying that the vq has been proven reliable to 425 whp, yet there r plenty of stories on here about vq's going out at less than that
the ls2 (which would be my choice if i were to go through with the swap) is dead reliable at 425whp with a cam as the only internal mod. the only way to blow that engine is to over rev (going into 2nd at 100+ for example)
and for people that wanna preserve handle (there is life outside of the 6 sec 1/4 time) the ls2 is a light engine which has a flat torque curve, great for road racing. all the other engines u mentioned are considerable heavier and alot of them wouldn't fit (m5's v10,
the ls2 (which would be my choice if i were to go through with the swap) is dead reliable at 425whp with a cam as the only internal mod. the only way to blow that engine is to over rev (going into 2nd at 100+ for example)
and for people that wanna preserve handle (there is life outside of the 6 sec 1/4 time) the ls2 is a light engine which has a flat torque curve, great for road racing. all the other engines u mentioned are considerable heavier and alot of them wouldn't fit, like the m5's v10, and i doubt the gt3's flat 6 would fit cause of how wide it is.
and u can't claim that the m5 would be faster than the z06 if it were the same weight with out any proof. i'm not saying this isn't true, but if i had to bet on everything else being equal in cars other the the v10 or the ls7, my money would go on the ls7, they both r rated at the same hp with the ls7 having considerably more torque
and another thing, i've never seen a mear mortal with an na vq that put out anywhere near 400whp (factory built race engines don't count), if there was, i'd be planning on that some time down the road if the price is comparable to the ls2 swap. but as of right now (my mind changes hourly as far as what type of mods i wanna do to my car, but i'd take an ls powered z over a tt z any day) i plan on doing this swap a year or so down the road
*edit*
btw, most of this post is my response to all the american engine bashing produced my turismo for no other reason (that i could find) other than it being an american engine, oh, and it has push rods, boo hoo
The reason why, people have problems with 425rwhp, has more to do with tuning than anything! I made 412rwhp with my PE kit and I abused it daily with over 50k miles on the block itself and another 10k with the kit installed.
The M5 makes the same amount of power with a more linear curve, than the LS7. Dont forget, the M5, revs to almost 8500rpm, where as the Vette has a redline of 6700-7000rpm. IF we were to put both motors in the same car, the M5 would completely own an ls7. If you would take into consideration, that an M5 runs 117mph traps, despite weighing 4100+lbs then you could imagine what it would run, weighing 1000lbs less.
The ls2, might be a light engine, but the cars that its in, weigh more than 3-400lbs more than the 350z.
05-18-2007, 12:46 PM
#94
Registered User
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Seattle (area), WA
Posts: 2,921
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ls2 is in a c6 which is around 3100-3200 pounds, which is about 100-200 lighter than my car, but we're not even talking about that
and where did u hear that the m5 has a more liner curve than the ls7, find dyno's of both and compare, and rpms don't have much to do with it, the z06 hits 60 in first, what gear the m5 hit 60 in?
fastest time i've seen in a bone stock z06 is 11.3 @ 127, average being 11.5 to 11.7 at 124 to 126
it'd be a good race, but my money would be on the ls7
and where did u hear that the m5 has a more liner curve than the ls7, find dyno's of both and compare, and rpms don't have much to do with it, the z06 hits 60 in first, what gear the m5 hit 60 in?
fastest time i've seen in a bone stock z06 is 11.3 @ 127, average being 11.5 to 11.7 at 124 to 126
it'd be a good race, but my money would be on the ls7
Last edited by warmmilk; 05-18-2007 at 12:57 PM.
05-18-2007, 01:00 PM
#95
Registered User
iTrader: (33)
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: curl lookin boy
Posts: 8,448
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by warmmilk
ls2 is in a c6 which is around 3100-3200 pounds, which is about 100-200 light than my car, but we're not even talking about that
and where did u hear that the m5 has a more liner curve than the ls7, find dyno's of both and compare, and rpms don't have much to do with it, the z06 hits 60 in first, what gear the m5 hit 60 in?
fastest time i've seen in a bone stock z06 is 11.3 @ 127, average being 11.5 to 11.7 at 124 to 126
it'd be a good race, but my money would be on the ls7
and where did u hear that the m5 has a more liner curve than the ls7, find dyno's of both and compare, and rpms don't have much to do with it, the z06 hits 60 in first, what gear the m5 hit 60 in?
fastest time i've seen in a bone stock z06 is 11.3 @ 127, average being 11.5 to 11.7 at 124 to 126
it'd be a good race, but my money would be on the ls7
If a 4100lb+ car minus the driver, can run 117traps, it is making some serious power. I imagine, dropping 1000lbs from the M5, could easily run 125traps.
http://www.dragtimes.com/images_dyno...MW-M5-Dyno.jpg
http://www.z06vette.com/gallery/data...s07Z06-med.JPG
Theres a slight dip, in the M5 graph, but pull all the way to 8500
05-18-2007, 01:12 PM
#96
Registered User
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Seattle (area), WA
Posts: 2,921
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
u just proved ur self wrong with those dyno sheets, the z06 is making more hp and tq everywhere in the rev range, and both curves are flatter with the ls7
as far as the race, i'm not saying the ls7 would win for sure, i'm saying thats my opinion, these 2 engines are too close in power to have anything more than an opinion in this matter without actually racing 2 cars with identical weight and aero, each with its repective engine
and again, i'm not saying that the ls7 is a better engine than the m5's v10 or the other way around. i'm just saying the the ls series is a damn good engine, and imo the best for a swap into a z, i really don't see a better candidate, especially for the price
as far as the race, i'm not saying the ls7 would win for sure, i'm saying thats my opinion, these 2 engines are too close in power to have anything more than an opinion in this matter without actually racing 2 cars with identical weight and aero, each with its repective engine
and again, i'm not saying that the ls7 is a better engine than the m5's v10 or the other way around. i'm just saying the the ls series is a damn good engine, and imo the best for a swap into a z, i really don't see a better candidate, especially for the price
05-18-2007, 01:17 PM
#97
Registered User
iTrader: (33)
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: curl lookin boy
Posts: 8,448
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by warmmilk
u just proved ur self wrong with those dyno sheets, the z06 is making more hp and tq everywhere in the rev range, and both curves are flatter with the ls7
as far as the race, i'm not saying the ls7 would win for sure, i'm saying thats my opinion, these 2 engines are too close in power to have anything more than an opinion in this matter without actually racing 2 cars with identical weight and aero, each with its repective engine
and again, i'm not saying that the ls7 is a better engine than the m5's v10 or the other way around. i'm just saying the the ls series is a damn good engine, and imo the best for a swap into a z, i really don't see a better candidate, especially for the price
as far as the race, i'm not saying the ls7 would win for sure, i'm saying thats my opinion, these 2 engines are too close in power to have anything more than an opinion in this matter without actually racing 2 cars with identical weight and aero, each with its repective engine
and again, i'm not saying that the ls7 is a better engine than the m5's v10 or the other way around. i'm just saying the the ls series is a damn good engine, and imo the best for a swap into a z, i really don't see a better candidate, especially for the price
We dont even know, what kind of dyno they were using. And as usual, the Cheby has underated there cars.
05-18-2007, 01:26 PM
#98
Registered User
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Seattle (area), WA
Posts: 2,921
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
the rb and the 2jz may be more reliable, just both weight alot more and on top of that the turbo's are mounted high up, further raising the center of gravity, and on top of that require intercoolers mounted in the nose infront of the front wheels, and on top of that hinders flow to the radiator for cooling. and they both make power via turbos, so u don't have really low end torque, and if u get tiny turbos, u gotta worry about surge, and the throttle response is never instanious, like it would be with a na ls2
i stand by my statement that the ls series would be the best swap for the 350z, unless all u car about is going in a straight line, then there are better platforms to start with than a 350z
and as far as dyno's go, both of those said dynojet on the top, like i said, the v10 and the ls7 are to close in power to guess which would be faster in the same weight, the only way to find out is to race
i stand by my statement that the ls series would be the best swap for the 350z, unless all u car about is going in a straight line, then there are better platforms to start with than a 350z
and as far as dyno's go, both of those said dynojet on the top, like i said, the v10 and the ls7 are to close in power to guess which would be faster in the same weight, the only way to find out is to race
05-18-2007, 03:57 PM
#100
New Member
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Decatur, AL
Posts: 251
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Noah, do you know if you will loose any thing form the swap? Things like cruise control, Ac, etc. Will the all the gauges work , the one that has gas mileage, tire pressure, dte,etc.?
Bob
Bob