I wanna take an M3..I HATE THEM $&(*&#
#21
GRRRRR, I really think that you guys have to stop arguing about this crap. Lets just put it this way.....'03 Mustang Cobra. Smoke your M3 and your 350z. Granted, it could use a little refinement, but so could a vette. Even on the track you are toast.....
#23
whosdady- Are you sure that you raced the 315HP M Roadster and not the 240HP M Roadster? Visually you really can't tell unless you ask the guy wht year the car is. The performance #'s for the Z and the 240HP M roadster are very close.
#24
Z rated, I am sure 315HP out of the M
I think the wheels are different.
I thought I may raise some eyebrows.
EG1: I am not saying all Z's will go high 12's with I, E, H and ECU upgrade. However, I do believe it is possible. If predictions are correct about the ECU upgrade it could unlock up to 30 HP alone. IMO that is high but those are the early estimates. Add on another 5 HP for the CAI intake, 13 HP for exhaust and 10 HP for headers. Adding those up you come to a total of 345 HP. Not bad! Then keep in mind that these mods IE headers will give more top end HP and the exhaust will give low end torque.
The weight of my car minus the jack and some other various non essential items is roughly 3200 lbs. Now look at the fastest times at the track with a stock Z. The fastest I have heard of is 13.67 or 13.76 I can't remember. With better tires not even DR's just better tires I would think a decent driver could hit high 12's...
Doesn't this make sense?
I thought I may raise some eyebrows.
EG1: I am not saying all Z's will go high 12's with I, E, H and ECU upgrade. However, I do believe it is possible. If predictions are correct about the ECU upgrade it could unlock up to 30 HP alone. IMO that is high but those are the early estimates. Add on another 5 HP for the CAI intake, 13 HP for exhaust and 10 HP for headers. Adding those up you come to a total of 345 HP. Not bad! Then keep in mind that these mods IE headers will give more top end HP and the exhaust will give low end torque.
The weight of my car minus the jack and some other various non essential items is roughly 3200 lbs. Now look at the fastest times at the track with a stock Z. The fastest I have heard of is 13.67 or 13.76 I can't remember. With better tires not even DR's just better tires I would think a decent driver could hit high 12's...
Doesn't this make sense?
#25
I tried not to reply to this thread but I couldn't stop myself. I owned a '02 M3 6spd then a 996 coupe, now an '03 track 350. The 350 is by far, again by, far slower than either of my previous cars. I don't care what any of you guys are smoking the M3 will hand it to you. As a previous M3 owner I can tell you that no M3 driver even considers a 350 competition. Yea you may play with one light to light but why waste your time? That said you may ask why would you go from an M3 to a 350?????? Money that's why. I want to be able to do other things with my money and I still want a cheap sports car. The 350 is a cool cheap sports car. I really like it but I have no illusion that it will ever be an M3 killer.
#27
Originally posted by pook
I tried not to reply to this thread but I couldn't stop myself. I owned a '02 M3 6spd then a 996 coupe, now an '03 track 350. The 350 is by far, again by, far slower than either of my previous cars. I don't care what any of you guys are smoking the M3 will hand it to you. As a previous M3 owner I can tell you that no M3 driver even considers a 350 competition. Yea you may play with one light to light but why waste your time? That said you may ask why would you go from an M3 to a 350?????? Money that's why. I want to be able to do other things with my money and I still want a cheap sports car. The 350 is a cool cheap sports car. I really like it but I have no illusion that it will ever be an M3 killer.
I tried not to reply to this thread but I couldn't stop myself. I owned a '02 M3 6spd then a 996 coupe, now an '03 track 350. The 350 is by far, again by, far slower than either of my previous cars. I don't care what any of you guys are smoking the M3 will hand it to you. As a previous M3 owner I can tell you that no M3 driver even considers a 350 competition. Yea you may play with one light to light but why waste your time? That said you may ask why would you go from an M3 to a 350?????? Money that's why. I want to be able to do other things with my money and I still want a cheap sports car. The 350 is a cool cheap sports car. I really like it but I have no illusion that it will ever be an M3 killer.
Maybe you could do the math... if the M3 weights 3450lbs and the 350Z 3150lbs (base) maybe the numbers would be interesting for the arguments... and then ad the mod's to the 350Z and things get more interesting.
#28
Re: Z rated, I am sure 315HP out of the M
Originally posted by whosdady
I think the wheels are different.
I thought I may raise some eyebrows.
EG1: I am not saying all Z's will go high 12's with I, E, H and ECU upgrade. However, I do believe it is possible. If predictions are correct about the ECU upgrade it could unlock up to 30 HP alone. IMO that is high but those are the early estimates. Add on another 5 HP for the CAI intake, 13 HP for exhaust and 10 HP for headers. Adding those up you come to a total of 345 HP. Not bad! Then keep in mind that these mods IE headers will give more top end HP and the exhaust will give low end torque.
Doesn't this make sense?
I think the wheels are different.
I thought I may raise some eyebrows.
EG1: I am not saying all Z's will go high 12's with I, E, H and ECU upgrade. However, I do believe it is possible. If predictions are correct about the ECU upgrade it could unlock up to 30 HP alone. IMO that is high but those are the early estimates. Add on another 5 HP for the CAI intake, 13 HP for exhaust and 10 HP for headers. Adding those up you come to a total of 345 HP. Not bad! Then keep in mind that these mods IE headers will give more top end HP and the exhaust will give low end torque.
Doesn't this make sense?
#29
My 350z is not stock (injen, grounding kit, no resonator)
POOK is right. STOP Dreaming people. With a 50shot of NOS you will make things more interesting for the M3 only because of the instant torque you'll get from it,but come on. And JAVI, the mods you have are great but nothing to make anyone go WOW over. You can't change some wires, throw an airfilter on, and take away a pipe to see Jekyl and Hyde. Of coarse all these mods make little differences and good ones at that but not huge gains. Just like an M3 or an N/A car these BASIC mods are not huge gains. OK they say if you change the Z ecu you get HUGE gains, so I guess we'll see about that. I hope so.
Oh, and the older M3 coupe is one fast car! I love it. That has I believe around 240hp and in my opinion would still give the Z some trouble. Again, weight and GEARING!
Oh, and the older M3 coupe is one fast car! I love it. That has I believe around 240hp and in my opinion would still give the Z some trouble. Again, weight and GEARING!
#30
Oh my God.... this thread is pointless... if the Z owners here actually race by a roll a late model M3 and lost for a couple a cars then you have the rigth to have a valid opinion, do not speculate about what MAY HAPPEn or SUPPOSE TO HAPPEN.
#31
Will HIT 12's
I think the Z can hit high 12's with intake headers exhaust and ecu, im thinking that should not be hard for this car. b/c they did make it under emission control for gas and stuff...wen some1 does it post it and tell us ur 1/4 mile.
#32
Re: Will HIT 12's
Originally posted by mohsinmomin
I think the Z can hit high 12's with intake headers exhaust and ecu, im thinking that should not be hard for this car. b/c they did make it under emission control for gas and stuff...wen some1 does it post it and tell us ur 1/4 mile.
I think the Z can hit high 12's with intake headers exhaust and ecu, im thinking that should not be hard for this car. b/c they did make it under emission control for gas and stuff...wen some1 does it post it and tell us ur 1/4 mile.
#33
you guys are forgetting the fact that the M3 makes more tq at the wheels because of the higher redline, by staying in the lower gears, which multiply the tq that the engine does make more than the higher gears. Ignore horsepower, torque wins races but not tq that the engine makes but tq at the wheels. This is how a S2000 with 153 ft/lbs of tq can run with a 302 ft/lbs of tq Mustang GT and totally demolish a Accord with 152 ft-lbs of tq.
#34
One of my neighbors has a new m3, maybe I should video tape us racing off the line, and from a roll. I have injen intake, I can get a grounding kit, and I have my resonator removed. I don't know if the 350z can beat one, I have never seen one in action. I don't really consider it that much of a higher class then the 350z, higher, but not that much higher.
#35
Thats a very wierd explanation if ever I heard one.
So if a car revs to 19,000 rpm and has 110 feet of torque with 110 bhp it should in theory beat a Z06 right.........
All higher revs does is allow for more hp to be generated, its all a question of doing it within engine tolerances.
Taking an example from F1, raising the engine rpm redline by 1000 might result in an imporvement of 100bhp.
The M engine is quite a bit more sophisticated than the S2000 ie no 'dumb' vtech system that is simply set off by an rpm switch. The system continuously varies the amount of air the engine gets, optimizing it for rpms so you get a lot more power over the rpm range vs a normal inline engine.
So if a car revs to 19,000 rpm and has 110 feet of torque with 110 bhp it should in theory beat a Z06 right.........
All higher revs does is allow for more hp to be generated, its all a question of doing it within engine tolerances.
Taking an example from F1, raising the engine rpm redline by 1000 might result in an imporvement of 100bhp.
The M engine is quite a bit more sophisticated than the S2000 ie no 'dumb' vtech system that is simply set off by an rpm switch. The system continuously varies the amount of air the engine gets, optimizing it for rpms so you get a lot more power over the rpm range vs a normal inline engine.
#36
Re: Re: Z rated, I am sure 315HP out of the M
Originally posted by D_Nyholm
Do you really believe your calculations? What you are doing is adding each part on top of one another. There is no way that you will ever get even close to 345 HP that way. Each mod does not add to the existing modifications. You may get a totaly of 25-30 hp from the whole getup....
Do you really believe your calculations? What you are doing is adding each part on top of one another. There is no way that you will ever get even close to 345 HP that way. Each mod does not add to the existing modifications. You may get a totaly of 25-30 hp from the whole getup....
From your comment it sounds like you think these mods cancel eachother out. Maybe you are confused about hp vs rwhp. I am saying we will push 345 hp not 345 rwhp. 345 hp is only 286.35 rwhp power (average 17% drivetrain loss). Next time you read a thread, check out some of the sigs guys have. I have seen sigs claiming 260+ with only half of these items. Put the ECU into the mix and they will produce more than my estimation.
Maybe this is your first experience with a sports car? I'm not sure what they will be able to do for your G? I have seen a turbo kit in Japan but I doubt you bought the G antisipating a turbo install.
For the guy that said the M3 is all that Most stock E46's are dynoing around 270 rwhp. That is 270 rwhp at 3400+pounds. An average 350Z with a couple of mods will dyno in at 260 rwhp and weigh 200 + less pounds. It doesn't take a brain child to figure out who would win a race
Last edited by whosdady; 04-28-2003 at 06:36 PM.
#38
whosdady - not saying that it's unbelievable, but i can't see a Z without F/I keeping up with the newest M roadster. I believe you raced the old one... and for wheels, you can always change them. Didn't you see the thread on the Z31 with Z33 wheels? Lots of people with bimmers and mercedes change wheels, body parts and badges to look like the more expensive or newer body. I've seen the newest M roadster (completely stock) run a 13.8 or something around there, at a high elevation track. The fastest Z I've heard run there is 14.7 at the same track. Not saying someone can't run their Z faster at that track, but a full second?
#39
Originally posted by Mr B
whosdady - not saying that it's unbelievable, but i can't see a Z without F/I keeping up with the newest M roadster. I believe you raced the old one... and for wheels, you can always change them. Didn't you see the thread on the Z31 with Z33 wheels? Lots of people with bimmers and mercedes change wheels, body parts and badges to look like the more expensive or newer body. I've seen the newest M roadster (completely stock) run a 13.8 or something around there, at a high elevation track. The fastest Z I've heard run there is 14.7 at the same track. Not saying someone can't run their Z faster at that track, but a full second?
whosdady - not saying that it's unbelievable, but i can't see a Z without F/I keeping up with the newest M roadster. I believe you raced the old one... and for wheels, you can always change them. Didn't you see the thread on the Z31 with Z33 wheels? Lots of people with bimmers and mercedes change wheels, body parts and badges to look like the more expensive or newer body. I've seen the newest M roadster (completely stock) run a 13.8 or something around there, at a high elevation track. The fastest Z I've heard run there is 14.7 at the same track. Not saying someone can't run their Z faster at that track, but a full second?
A 13.8 is no big feat. Granted I live closer to sea level but there are many guys in the 13's. In fact, I would say out of the track posts I have read, most of them are in the 13's
#40
Re: My experience
Originally posted by whosdady
I have an enthusiat Z, A/T with Stillen Exhaust and Injen CAI. Last week I had my first experience racing a Z3 M Roadster. I assume it was stock, giving it 315hp and weighing considerably less than the 2001-2003 M3. My guess is that the 200-300 pound weight difference more than compensates for the additional 18 hp the M3 makes.
Anyway, we are at the light and he revs his engine like he wants to show me how slow my Z is. Granted I considered this a huge insult. When I had my single turbo MKIV Supra it was all I could do to get Vipers and Z06's to race me. Now I get revs from M3's and Boxters
The light turns green and there was a nice amount of noise (laying of rubber) coming from his lane and he pulls quite a bit on me. (At least a car length) That is the most he got on me. By the time I was in third he was only half a car length a head of me and was forced to slow down so he could get in my lane to make his exit and yes he was behind me at this point in time.
Granted I lost the race. But only by half a car length. Plus if we would have made it into fourth, I think we would have been side by side. With that being said, with headers, h/f cats, ecu upgrade and plenum this M roadster or any stock M bmw, M5 included would be toast. With those mods I would expect to pay a total of $35K for this car and it should run high 12's. Regardless of reports I have yet to see a stock M5 or M3 run that at the track. No doubt a modified M will out run that figure but at double or even triple the price. The Z is by far a much better car to mod.
I have an enthusiat Z, A/T with Stillen Exhaust and Injen CAI. Last week I had my first experience racing a Z3 M Roadster. I assume it was stock, giving it 315hp and weighing considerably less than the 2001-2003 M3. My guess is that the 200-300 pound weight difference more than compensates for the additional 18 hp the M3 makes.
Anyway, we are at the light and he revs his engine like he wants to show me how slow my Z is. Granted I considered this a huge insult. When I had my single turbo MKIV Supra it was all I could do to get Vipers and Z06's to race me. Now I get revs from M3's and Boxters
The light turns green and there was a nice amount of noise (laying of rubber) coming from his lane and he pulls quite a bit on me. (At least a car length) That is the most he got on me. By the time I was in third he was only half a car length a head of me and was forced to slow down so he could get in my lane to make his exit and yes he was behind me at this point in time.
Granted I lost the race. But only by half a car length. Plus if we would have made it into fourth, I think we would have been side by side. With that being said, with headers, h/f cats, ecu upgrade and plenum this M roadster or any stock M bmw, M5 included would be toast. With those mods I would expect to pay a total of $35K for this car and it should run high 12's. Regardless of reports I have yet to see a stock M5 or M3 run that at the track. No doubt a modified M will out run that figure but at double or even triple the price. The Z is by far a much better car to mod.
315hp Roadsters are capable of 13.2's I haven't seen a Z come close to that mark yet.
Unless you know BMW's how could you tell it was the 315hp edition? Pretty hard to tell... Good story though.
Last edited by SiGGy; 04-28-2003 at 08:02 PM.