ke0ki2k

iTrader: (2)

cool cool. let me know how the cams treat ya, and do some before & after dynos if at all possible, itd be awesome good luck m8, love what youre doin.

Frostydc4

iTrader: (3)

Is this true ? I was hoping that my tuner would be able to optimize power from 5-7k by playing with the cam timing.

Nathan

[QUOTE=BlackTuner] Lets be clear on this that the NA route on the vq in the states is at a true dead place. Why because it is much easier to put a Forced Induction on a car and say... Look we made power! NA is HARD!

100% in agreement, on a $ to HP comparison its no contest.
I was not trying to be critical of you personally as you have been a great help on this site.
My disapointment with Utec is not with the product as it is unbelievably good value for the cost. There were a hell of lot of motors going pop before it came along, but coming up to 3 years since its introduction it would have been nice to have had cam phasing & a new interface even if it cost another 1/2 G.
( dont feel obliged to reply )

I,m sure the C8 cams are going to get good power but let me be presumtious and predict that the power will flatten out very quickly over 6 & a bit K. It probably wont dip much until 7 but it will be frustrating.

Nathan

Its true.
When Nissan put this motor into production in 2001 it was designed to go in all there 6 cyl models from pick ups, large & mid size sedans to sports cars in exactly the same specification, Bore, Stroke, CR,camshafts,cam phasing, cylinder heads ext. The only difference being that the Z & G35 got a different intake system. As the motor had to meet tougher & tougher world emission targets its not good enough to now to just dump heaps of fuel at high revs to keep a motor alive.
Now instead of just dumping fuel in near the red line, Nissan & others fully retard the intake cam & advance the ignition near there max revs to keep them running clean.
As Black Tuner has pointed out, each new model has raised the rev limit & the power has increased but peak Tq has remained about the same.

realdealg35

iTrader: (2)

So if a full engine management system was used to control intake and exhaust cam phasing, and these C8R cams were installed, could you shift the powerband and rev to 7,500 (or maybe a hair more) on a rev-up and make well over 300rwhp? (that is assuming that you've got full boltons, lightweight flywheel, and worked factory heads)

I'm really trying to stay N/A on my car, and would really like to make over 300rwhp with worked heads, C8R cams, full EMS, full boltons, and a lightweight flywheel. Possible? What are you fellas' opinions?

realdealg35

iTrader: (2)

The Haltech looks very appealing - not only for an N/A setup now, but for a possible boost setup later

BlackTuner

iTrader: (2)

Just from a camshaft point of view, the higher the duration the farther up the power band will be shifted. It is not known where peak power will be with the c8r's but I will say that it will be higher than stock. Having the proper supporting mods will only make the power output better.

Side note. Cams's should arrive on the 22nd.

__jb

iTrader: (3)

Are you planning to stay 3.5L... or bore and/or stroke it?

gothchick

iTrader: (12)

I'm debating on a 3.8L non-sleeved stroker build. Not sure if the extra $5K ~$6k for a 3.8L build over a 3.5L build is worth it though... Can't wait to see Kwame's stroker build when it's finished.

Dynosty

iTrader: (27)

There is no way to know until someone tries and finds out. There are lots of variables, but I wouldn't say it is out of reach.

Nathan

It's already been done many times.
The Japanese recipe:
(1) Nismo spec 2 cylinder heads with VQ45 titanium valves (inlet 1mm smaller than stock) CR now aprox 12.1
(2) Nismo spec 2 camshafts, Inlet 283 Duration lift 11+mm. Ex 276
(3) Nismo VTC sprockets
(4) Valve springs
(5) Larger MAF housing
(6) Long tube headers
(7) Reprogramed factory ECU ( some tuners fine tune with F con )
(8) Stronger rod bolts or new rods & maybe a flywheel.
(9) Plenum Spacer
(10) Slightly Larger Injectors
(11) Tank full of 100+ octane Pump Fuel

How to do it in the rest of the world
(1) 5 angle valve seat job (bigger valves not ness )
(2) Valve Springs
(3) 11.5 or more CR coated Pistons with deeper valve cut outs
(4) Eagle Rods
(5) Long tube headers
(6) Larger Maf housing
(7) Plenum Spacer
(8) Longer Duration & bigger lift Cams. Maybe C8 or C9 or Nismo spec 2
(9) VTC spockets if they are still available or modified OE sprockets
(9) Fully progamable ECU
(10) Injectors & Charles's Walbro installation
(11) A tank full of Jungle Juice

The above mods tuned professionaly should put you around 300 rwhp, maybe more

ke0ki2k

iTrader: (2)

....I dont see the point for injectors if youre staying N/A...really no need unless you stroke it or something...and if I did nismo spec 2 heads and spec two cams (which cost a effing fortune) I sure as hell wouldnt stay with a stock ECU, Haltech Plat. here i come. btw Nismo Spec 2 cams only work on Nismo heads, wouldnt work out on the factory heads without completely reworking the whole valvetrain.

Kwame

iTrader: (78)

It has been already proven that these modifications are not necessary in order to reach 300rwhp NA. As far as cams we all know Tomei 268s will suffice and with the Tomei 268s the now discontinued VTC pulleys are not needed; Crawford headers, the stock fuel system and pump gas are also all sufficient.

Kwame

iTrader: (78)

I can't wait until someone does an HR NA build!

ke0ki2k

iTrader: (2)

PLUS MOTHER EFFING 1! seriously. those cars have crazy potential...didnt someone with test pipes, exhaust, intakes, and a reflash get like 292 rwhp?

Nathan

Tomei 268s = Longer duration & bigger lift cams
Crawford Headers = Long tube headers
The injectors & fuel pump is not ness, but I use them.
Nismo Jp is still listing VTC sprockets on there site. They definitly lift the midrange power a lot
Here in Australia most cars are tuned on Dyno Dynamics dynos calibrated in shootout mode which reads some 15 to 20% less than a Dynojet .
I'm not sure if the Dyno Dynamics are calibrated to shootout mode in the US but when most of the reputable Dyno tuners here signed up for shootout certification there were a lot of disappointed customers not happy with the lower #'s

Nathan

The stock ECU is the best & cheapest option for tuning if you have the ability to program it properly. Very few people outside of Japan can, so a Haltech platinum would be a very good choice.
The top tuners in Japan that are familiar with the Techtom software & Autech who do Nismo,s tuning, just reflash the desired program according to the mods.
The Nismo Spec 1 & 2 both fit in the stock heads without modification
Ritchie (350Z Lover) did it over 3 years ago.
To fit the VK45 titanium valves in the Nismo heads, modification is requied & I have done that on one job for good results.

mw9

iTrader: (51)

So, I have an 03. I just bought a UTEC, so it pointless to me to look into getting a set of cams.

Nathan

No, the Utec is a very cost effective & just about essential to get the best tune for most mods including cams. (look @ Z1 Adams thread)
But if you are going to use big lift & duration cams & change the whole power curve upwards, IMO the Haltech would be a better choice because of its ability to alter cam phasing.

Z1 Performance

iTrader: (564)

Crawfords are not long tubes...they are longer than most short tubes, but its not a full long tube header. They also were designed around stock heads with relatively stock type cams, to work for a variety of circumstances. We'll soon see how a real long tube header compares, not to worry (and no, not Xerds..those are a joke)

The Tomei's are longer duration and higher lift vs stock for sure. Most people consider them a mild cam, because they don't know what they are even looking at when they see cam specs. As Doug at Crawford what he thinks of Tomei 268's vs his previously very aggressive cams. I know which he prefers It's just too bad they don't make them anymore, though the 272's would be the next step up the ladder.

NISMO VTC pullies may still be gettable depending who you know. Last set we got we were told it was the last set they had, but who knows. I don't have them, nor will I be using them as I don't want to rip my heads apart just to install them. We have them going on kwame's car because his cams (Tomei 280) necessitate them. I didn't bother with any valves, etc as they simply weren't needed and it was not worth the added expense to me. So far, stock pump and injectors have also been fine. I also didn't find race gas to be worth anything, but, admittedly, I am on a very conservative timing curve right now. I'm sure next time around we'll make another stab at a race gas map, but it just wasnt that important to me since my car is just a street car, not a race car.

On a Dynojet, my car would put out higher #'s on a Dynojet, and even higher on a Dynapack

A UTEC is all 99% of the NA customer would ever need. For those going 10/10ths, a Haltech would be the way to go (again, we'll be using that in Kwame's car)

The cam timing is critical for tuning, no matter FI or NA. But in order to maximize the results from the cam timing, one needs the cams to necessitate the change in cam timing (IMHO). I haven't played with this aspect of the car because as mentioned, a UTEC can't do it. So for now, I'm sticking to the stock cam timing map and will work around it until I find it to be a restriction on my setup