nonmature

well all this money and minimal gains??? why so much there are other cars out that are just plain cheaper for more...

also anyone in here driven both the new EVO and the Z hard??? and want to give me a pro/con of both cars ???

-non

Stabber

The EVO and WRX are a lot easier to make deadly fast. yes I've driven an evo before. They are definitely powerful. Pros and cons? When you start modding, an evo or sti will smoke a 350z. As will the srt and upcoming saturn (if they're modified)

350_Z

iTrader: (3)

A car with forced induction from the factory is always going to be easier to get gains out of. Just turn up the boost, correct the fuel maps/timing and open up the exhaust/downpipe and you get great gains.

It's harder to get gains on an all motor car, but it is still possible. It is also really expensive and frustrating to make power all motor vs forced induction.

azrael

it's all in the engine design. the VQ35DE is a general purpose N/A V6 engine that was tuned to make more power in the 350Z application. It wasn't designed for boost.

Making power on the cheap happens either in factory-boosted engines (like the EVO), or in large-displacement motors that aren't highly-tuned from the factory (like the LS1 and Mustang's modular 4.6). They can make power because Chevy and Ford, respectively, didn't tune for maximum power from the factory, and there is more power to be had by freeing up airflow restrictions.

In our case, the engine is fairly efficient for it's displacement, so getting power from the NA route is limited.

nonmature

ya but what about this borla exhaust
350z = around 600
EVO = around 500

I dont want to hear a "i didnt pay that much blah blah blah.." thats list price

HKS CAMS EVO = 538
Nismo 350z (I know these ar nismo) 1550

Tien FLEX
EVO = 1495
350z = 1645

it is nickel and dime in places but in others its almost a 1/3 I know the VQ is for NA purposes but still... a lot of companys offer stages for the EVO and you can get so much more for you money its unbelievable...

azrael

not sure what to tell you about the Tien coilovers, but it's easy to explain the exhaust and cams.

It's a V6 engine. Two cylinder banks, so there is significantly more exhaust piping necessary.

And the cams.. the EVO has a DOHC I4, which means 2 cams. We have a DOHC V6, which has 4 cams. Double the cams, means at least double the cost. The price difference there doesn't surprise me, especially when you double the number of cams and then factor in the Nismo name.

516_wrx

this happens to all "new" cars soo ner or later the aftermarket will become saturated with parts/vendors/option so that the prices will be fairly competetive.

the same this that happened 3 years aro with WRX's back then you had 2-3 companies that supported the car here is the states now you can't go down the block without seeing a speedshop that caters to them. Give the Z time and sooner or later you'll see a significat price drop for parts making the cost to hp ratio even out.

hope this helps

BriGuyMax

iTrader: (4)

You better tell Nissan that since they currently use the VQ as their twin turbo race motor.

The original VQ was designed for a European Racing series back in the early 90s. The series never took off thus the VQ was sitting on Nissan's part bench so they decided to toss it in the Maxima. There are now Maximas with the VQ30DE motor making well over 400fwhp with 15+ pounds of boost on a BONE STOCK MOTOR.

Nissan obviously had high hp and boost in mind when they designed the VQ, thus there are factory boosted VQ's.

Over in Japan they used to have a VQ30DET motor that they put in their midsize RWD Luxury Sedans.

nonmature

actually the exhaust piping wont really be more that is the price for the cheaper of the 2 borlas which is 1 pipe back to the exhaust evo is from the cat back which shopuld be the same...

-non

zxsaint

Sure. If your sole desire in driving a car is to modify your car to go fast from a launch down the 1/4 mile line, get the evo. Unfortunately (its subjective) but most people think it looks like a turd. A cheapo sedan with cheap looking bodykit, big ricer wing, and APC-style "euro" tailights that you find in every corner ricer shop.

If you want a well balanced coupe thats as fast from a roll and has class, not to mention more upscale and is designed like a sports car should look, get the Z.

It's truely a self-image decision as well as what you plan to do with the car.

For me the choice was 100% set in stone. I wouldnt be caught driving an evo, sti, or neon.

jesseenglish

I wouldn't say the Evo looks like a turd. More like bag o' @ss.

reen

It's just like the good ol' "do I buy the Z or the G35" question.

If you have to ask, the Z is not for you!

kzshin

if you want to beat most people in all types of weather conditions with your mod car, then get EVO.

if you want to get chick's attention, with a nice looking, upscale performance car, then get Z.

nonmature

I already have a Z and it is pretty fast but I'm just sayin it seems so much more expensive for a minimal gain...

also I like the look of the evos they look fairly good in my opinion... they dont look as good as the Z but they perform much better...

-non

MySunset350Z

iTrader: (23)

im waiting for the saturation stage before i get any of the remaining mods. the minimal gains for top dollar mods are not a smart idea to get right now. by next fall i think prices will be a lot lower.

it does get annoying. but all of us that are a bit more spending sensative can do is pick the best bang for the buck mods for now, and i think i've done that already except maybe for the pullies. but even those im not sure they're worth the money yet.

azrael

I won't argue about the heritage of the motor.. it's certainly a good design, and with some modifications, it will make a great race motor... but you and I both know that what sits in the Z's engine bay and what sits in their race car are two totally different engines. With sleeves, new rods, and new pistons, I'm sure the VQ can take all kinds of boost and make tons of power. But that's no surprise.

One thing I'd like to see is an aftermarket option for a forged crank, aside from the insanely expensive stroker kit.

FLY BY Z

To answer the original question, supply and demand. Simple. People will pay the prices so those are the prices that are charged. Like when a set of rear end gears come out for 900 dollars and people want to hump his leg. Geez, to me that is about 600 too high. Well, maybe these are the only gears out right now and if people want them (which apparently they are crazy for them) they will have to pay the price. Maybe when there are 15 different companies out with gears (never) the price would be more realistic. This is what happens in a small market like the Z has. It is unfortunate for the consumer but hey, thats capitalism. The computer market is so saturated that it is unfortunate for manufs. So it works both ways. Just depends on your hobby how much you get screwed on price. Sometimes you got to pay to play.

del105

iTrader: (4)

Because the Z is built for performance car tourists not real motorsport enthusiasts like the Evo.

Drag Limited

sums up my opinion. A good example of this is import tunner spending 1.3K on a 350z and getting around 5 hp. and spending 1.1K on a 240sx with SR20DET and getting 35 hp. This is why I wont ever buy a 350z unless I am happy with the greddy kit. After looking at how it preforms on others cars.

hfm

iTrader: (1)

To date:

JWT Popcharger $100
JWT Flywheel $400
Borla TD Exhaust $630
LBMS Testpipe w/res $490

$1,620. If it's a 17% drivetrain loss, that's 307 hp, if it's 18% that's 300 hp. So, assuming 287 hp stock and the best case senario, I've gained 20 hp at $81/hp.

I will likely add a UR crank pulley for what, $290? And, I'll add the JWT ECU. That should be another $600 for maybe another 10-15 hp. I'll probably wait or pass on the JWT cams just cause of the cost of a 10 hour installation.

Total N/A cost about $2,500, not including cams. Total hp gain, say 35 hp at $71/hp. That's expensive. Unless you go FI, you don't see good money to hp ratio for this car. It probably wont get better until the Z has been around for a few years like the STI. But, I agree with the above posts, those cars that already started with FI from the get go have it so much easier and less expensive than we do. NA modifications are always more expensive.