My short-winded treatise on Internet Einsteins
12-12-2003, 05:18 PM
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My short-winded treatise on Internet Einsteins
Do your own research.......check lots of data sources......talk to people that have done what you're thinking of doing.........make your own decisions
Last edited by elektrik_juggernaut; 12-12-2003 at 06:19 PM.
12-12-2003, 10:50 PM
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Not trolling, MPH......just offering a gentle reminder that some of the people that are trying to tear down proven solutions to certain problems, are the same people that were saying just a month or two ago, that everything's fine, and nothing needed fixing......and perhaps, that what people say here should be taken with a grain of salt, and possibly verified with real world experiences instead of theoretical discussions
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12-13-2003, 09:18 AM
#8
and possibly verified with real world experiences instead of theoretical discussions
EJ, you an Max jumped on Jesse for attempting to degrade (and "hurt sales") for TS with their ECU flash. I know you are an intelligent and respected poster here as is Jesse. Do you REALLY think that he meant to harm TS sales with his posts? Do you really think that was his intended reason? Come on now. Be honest.
By the same token, do you think your posts hurt sales of the ATI Procharger kit? I certainly think they did! And I think that was your very intention! H3ll, look at your sig!
12-13-2003, 09:33 AM
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Bonz I corrected Jesse that I wasn't the first to try my setup I like him as a person.
I am not trying to argue. You think the kit is good, so do I. But not in stock form as sold. Not only are you retarding the timing but it was also recently revealed by you that you are TS flashed! So you are not running the stock ATI kit either! You are patching it up like everyone else! If anyon is hurting FI sales it's ATI themselves, we didn't make the kit, we just bought it. So did you and your patching right along with us. Let's all be cool ok?
I am not trying to argue. You think the kit is good, so do I. But not in stock form as sold. Not only are you retarding the timing but it was also recently revealed by you that you are TS flashed! So you are not running the stock ATI kit either! You are patching it up like everyone else! If anyon is hurting FI sales it's ATI themselves, we didn't make the kit, we just bought it. So did you and your patching right along with us. Let's all be cool ok?
12-13-2003, 09:38 AM
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P.S. for the record text intentions can get taken out of content. I have actually talked to Jesse on the phone. Sometimes when you get off the net and actually talk to people it really helps.
In fact I get calls from people from NY all the way to New Mexico about this. I may not come accross perfect in text but give me a call and I can be the nicest person in the world. And no I didn't jump on anyone, this is cyberspace. He started a very long thread on a controversial topic and should and probably did expect to take some heat. If you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen (or don't make the post.) It really wouldn't have mattered who made that post, it is just a hot button topic right now that's all.
In fact I get calls from people from NY all the way to New Mexico about this. I may not come accross perfect in text but give me a call and I can be the nicest person in the world. And no I didn't jump on anyone, this is cyberspace. He started a very long thread on a controversial topic and should and probably did expect to take some heat. If you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen (or don't make the post.) It really wouldn't have mattered who made that post, it is just a hot button topic right now that's all.
12-13-2003, 10:47 AM
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For the record, I had no intentions on hurting TS sales, just to bring up things that I thought were being ignored and overlooked. Ignorance is not bliss believe it or not.
It doesn't matter though because nobody's paying attention to the real meat of the post because of all the stupid arguing about irrelevant ****.
It doesn't matter though because nobody's paying attention to the real meat of the post because of all the stupid arguing about irrelevant ****.
12-13-2003, 11:11 AM
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I got a PM from a guy who was sold on driving 3 states to Torrance (TS) to do what I have done and now he is questioning whether it is the right thing to do because of your thread.
Read into how that may or may not "hurt sales" as you want, it's a fact I can cut and paste if I wanted but I won't.
When you post something as an authority on a forum read by thousands then yes, you need to expect people who are not technical like me to wonder. Then to be bashed for not being technical just makes it worse.
The guy is now questioning something that has proven to work on several cars and a TT Kit because of your post Jesse.
Bottom line. It doesn't hurt me, I am not Technosquare. It hurts others who want the company to prosper though.
Unlike me for instance who has not said one single bad thing about J&S and in fact contacted John about a possible purchase.
2 cents in the jar.
Read into how that may or may not "hurt sales" as you want, it's a fact I can cut and paste if I wanted but I won't.
When you post something as an authority on a forum read by thousands then yes, you need to expect people who are not technical like me to wonder. Then to be bashed for not being technical just makes it worse.
The guy is now questioning something that has proven to work on several cars and a TT Kit because of your post Jesse.
Bottom line. It doesn't hurt me, I am not Technosquare. It hurts others who want the company to prosper though.
Unlike me for instance who has not said one single bad thing about J&S and in fact contacted John about a possible purchase.
2 cents in the jar.
12-13-2003, 11:16 AM
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I forgot, he has already bought the injectors from Victor Reyes of RB Motoring and the PM came in today that he may have made a mistake. We are not all gear heads and we don't have to be. So now what does he do with his larger injectors he paid 900 bucks for? Cause and effect man it doesn't take a genius to figure that out. It's a domino effect. You haven't tried my setup. Even Chris at Ultimate Z's name came up when I got a call from the car with 380cc's running the TS PE setup in Chicago with Cheston's program! So yes these posts are far reaching, you have no idea! His car runs perfect BTW as does mine. Tried and true and he has put more miles on his setup than mine.
If there is no "intent" fine, but cause and effect........
If there is no "intent" fine, but cause and effect........
12-13-2003, 11:28 AM
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I got a PM from a guy who was sold on driving 3 states to Torrance(TS) to do what I have done and now he is questioning whether it is the right thing to do because of your thread.
Read into how that may or may not "hurt sales" as you want, it's a fact I can cut and paste if I wanted but I won't.
Read into how that may or may not "hurt sales" as you want, it's a fact I can cut and paste if I wanted but I won't.
Good, he should be questioning whether it's the right thing to do. That was the intention of my post. No one should go blindly into something without all of the information. The only info we have about the TS flash is from you. You don't know enough about the technical details to explain what exactly it's doing. TS isn't explaining anything. Basically that guy is gonna drive 3 states on your word that it works flawlessly.
That doesn't bother you at all? You have no idea what it's really doing, yet you're recommending this flash to people and people are taking you at your word.
Once again, who gives a **** about TS' sales. People should be asking questions, not blindly spending $1500 to modify their cars because a couple people said it's a good thing to do when there are better ways to go about getting the same thing.
12-13-2003, 11:42 AM
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I have no interest in TS sales whatsoever, however, the work that they've done is now proving invaluable to those of us that are going FI
Although they won't tell you the code if you ask them, their Techtom programmer is for sale on their website.....and any information that anyone feels their entitled to, can be read, and written, with that programmer........in addition to that, a datalogger will connect to a car with a flashed ECM, just as easily as it will to a stock car
I understand electronics, and i haven't really seen anything in that warrants this kind of discrediting of ECM reflashing.....yes, i know, the ECM doesn't sense boost......but perhaps it doesn't need to.....perhaps engine speed and load are reliable enough indicators of how much fuel needs to be added, and how much timing needs to be removed
We're probably not going to ever have a "perfect" solution for the FI problem, but there are plusses and minuses to both.....The J&S is a great solution....but it still leaves the FMU, and the extra fuel pump in the system.
The Reflashed ECM is a great solution, but it lacks the control of the system that many of the gearheads like to keep for themselves, making it necessary for other reflashes when more extensive modifications are done
I like both solutions.....and i like the ones that are still pending.....and so far, i haven't seen any good reasoning that warrants a bashing of one or the other
we have real world models that are operating as they're supposed to......and that simply cannot be ignored
Although they won't tell you the code if you ask them, their Techtom programmer is for sale on their website.....and any information that anyone feels their entitled to, can be read, and written, with that programmer........in addition to that, a datalogger will connect to a car with a flashed ECM, just as easily as it will to a stock car
I understand electronics, and i haven't really seen anything in that warrants this kind of discrediting of ECM reflashing.....yes, i know, the ECM doesn't sense boost......but perhaps it doesn't need to.....perhaps engine speed and load are reliable enough indicators of how much fuel needs to be added, and how much timing needs to be removed
We're probably not going to ever have a "perfect" solution for the FI problem, but there are plusses and minuses to both.....The J&S is a great solution....but it still leaves the FMU, and the extra fuel pump in the system.
The Reflashed ECM is a great solution, but it lacks the control of the system that many of the gearheads like to keep for themselves, making it necessary for other reflashes when more extensive modifications are done
I like both solutions.....and i like the ones that are still pending.....and so far, i haven't seen any good reasoning that warrants a bashing of one or the other
we have real world models that are operating as they're supposed to......and that simply cannot be ignored
12-13-2003, 11:52 AM
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It seems like you just want me to shut up about my misgivings with the TS ECU flash. It might work great, but I'm not going to believe that the ECU can be reliable as the only method of fuel and timing control until someone can provide me with technical data to back it up.
I am a logical person, all it will take for me to shut up is for someone to prove it to me. So instead of wasting yours and my time with arguments that prove nothing, show me the money.
All I'm asking for is someone to prove to me that the ECU can reliably act as the sole control of timing and fuel in changing atmospheric and engine conditions for a Procharged Nissan 350Z. After all, that's what you're touting it as, now prove it.
I am a logical person, all it will take for me to shut up is for someone to prove it to me. So instead of wasting yours and my time with arguments that prove nothing, show me the money.
All I'm asking for is someone to prove to me that the ECU can reliably act as the sole control of timing and fuel in changing atmospheric and engine conditions for a Procharged Nissan 350Z. After all, that's what you're touting it as, now prove it.
12-13-2003, 11:57 AM
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Originally posted by elektrik_juggernaut
I have no interest in TS sales whatsoever, however, the work that they've done is now proving invaluable to those of us that are going FI
Although they won't tell you the code if you ask them, their Techtom programmer is for sale on their website.....and any information that anyone feels their entitled to, can be read, and written, with that programmer........in addition to that, a datalogger will connect to a car with a flashed ECM, just as easily as it will to a stock car
I understand electronics, and i haven't really seen anything in that warrants this kind of discrediting of ECM reflashing.....yes, i know, the ECM doesn't sense boost......but perhaps it doesn't need to.....perhaps engine speed and load are reliable enough indicators of how much fuel needs to be added, and how much timing needs to be removed
We're probably not going to ever have a "perfect" solution for the FI problem, but there are plusses and minuses to both.....The J&S is a great solution....but it still leaves the FMU, and the extra fuel pump in the system.
The Reflashed ECM is a great solution, but it lacks the control of the system that many of the gearheads like to keep for themselves, making it necessary for other reflashes when more extensive modifications are done
I like both solutions.....and i like the ones that are still pending.....and so far, i haven't seen any good reasoning that warrants a bashing of one or the other
we have real world models that are operating as they're supposed to......and that simply cannot be ignored
I have no interest in TS sales whatsoever, however, the work that they've done is now proving invaluable to those of us that are going FI
Although they won't tell you the code if you ask them, their Techtom programmer is for sale on their website.....and any information that anyone feels their entitled to, can be read, and written, with that programmer........in addition to that, a datalogger will connect to a car with a flashed ECM, just as easily as it will to a stock car
I understand electronics, and i haven't really seen anything in that warrants this kind of discrediting of ECM reflashing.....yes, i know, the ECM doesn't sense boost......but perhaps it doesn't need to.....perhaps engine speed and load are reliable enough indicators of how much fuel needs to be added, and how much timing needs to be removed
We're probably not going to ever have a "perfect" solution for the FI problem, but there are plusses and minuses to both.....The J&S is a great solution....but it still leaves the FMU, and the extra fuel pump in the system.
The Reflashed ECM is a great solution, but it lacks the control of the system that many of the gearheads like to keep for themselves, making it necessary for other reflashes when more extensive modifications are done
I like both solutions.....and i like the ones that are still pending.....and so far, i haven't seen any good reasoning that warrants a bashing of one or the other
we have real world models that are operating as they're supposed to......and that simply cannot be ignored
12-13-2003, 12:00 PM
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Jesse,
Rather than get worked up and start cussing again why don't you spend 2 dollars and call Chris at Ultimate Z and ask him how it works. He installed the P.E. injectors and sent out the ECU and drove it etc etc and it is perfect. That is why I did it, I wasn't "blind" I had a good source because even the owner of the car called me 3 times from Chicago. Better yet call Victor Reyes of RB Motoring who was at SEMA with Tadishi and works on Skylines it's not that expensive to call from AZ to CA. Ask them why it works. I don't CARE why it works I only care that it is PROVEN to work and the ATI kit in stock form has ISSUES. Why is that so hard to grasp?
You are actually becomming quite rude rather than informative IMHO. You don't even track your car and refuse to enter it into the SCer challenge because you have to "retune it for lower sea levels." Then Bonz here drops the bombshell several months later that he has been TS flashed and is going to add the J&S as are you. So tell me again how perfect this stock ATI FMU kit is? We are no idiots man.
Rather than get worked up and start cussing again why don't you spend 2 dollars and call Chris at Ultimate Z and ask him how it works. He installed the P.E. injectors and sent out the ECU and drove it etc etc and it is perfect. That is why I did it, I wasn't "blind" I had a good source because even the owner of the car called me 3 times from Chicago. Better yet call Victor Reyes of RB Motoring who was at SEMA with Tadishi and works on Skylines it's not that expensive to call from AZ to CA. Ask them why it works. I don't CARE why it works I only care that it is PROVEN to work and the ATI kit in stock form has ISSUES. Why is that so hard to grasp?
You are actually becomming quite rude rather than informative IMHO. You don't even track your car and refuse to enter it into the SCer challenge because you have to "retune it for lower sea levels." Then Bonz here drops the bombshell several months later that he has been TS flashed and is going to add the J&S as are you. So tell me again how perfect this stock ATI FMU kit is? We are no idiots man.
12-13-2003, 12:09 PM
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Originally posted by jesseenglish
Wow EJ, I actually agree with you. It may have seemed like I was bashing the reflash, but I was attempting to point out the problems I have with it and would like someone to explain to me why I'm wrong. If it could be proved to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that the ECU can adapt to changing conditions without the need of a reflash (I'm not talking about new mods), then I would go out and buy the flash myself.
Wow EJ, I actually agree with you. It may have seemed like I was bashing the reflash, but I was attempting to point out the problems I have with it and would like someone to explain to me why I'm wrong. If it could be proved to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that the ECU can adapt to changing conditions without the need of a reflash (I'm not talking about new mods), then I would go out and buy the flash myself.
12-13-2003, 12:18 PM
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umm no... He is not being rude he is getting bashed.. I agree with him 100%. There are more then 1 way to do things. He is not saying you are wrong.. All he is trying to say is to be careful because you dont know what TS is doing since they tell nothing.. He said the TS flash is a good idea BUT not alone. That there has to be more functionality not just something set in stone.. The purpose of is post is to make points for people to think about.. He NEVER said he knew it all but he just like us is trying to figure out the best solution to get the most power without forgetting safty..