Engine Break in Period
02-15-2004, 06:42 PM
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Engine Break in Period
I just purchased my Le Mans Sunset Track about 3 weeks ago and have been reading up on the engine break in period. The manual states that I should remain UNDER 4k RPM for approx 1200 miles. I'll be honest...after i got it i had to get into a couple times just for the hell of it...Is that the true breakin period, and what possible harm could be caused by exceeding the recommended RPM limit... thanks for the insight...
02-15-2004, 07:00 PM
#3
Welcome to the site, I did the same thing as you. As soon as I got it some riced out civic was reving his engine wanting to go. So I just had to take it to 4001 rpm and beat the hell out of him 
Just kidding, I'm not really sure about the break in period. I don't think you're going to ruin the engine as long as you don't run it hard again until 1250
Just kidding, I'm not really sure about the break in period. I don't think you're going to ruin the engine as long as you don't run it hard again until 1250
02-15-2004, 07:17 PM
#4
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You break it in the way you plan on driving it...
You baby it through break-in... rings will NOT set for high RPM. MEANING as your car ages and you rev it out it will burn oil FAR more rapidly.
During my break-in I gave it a nice run through the gears once every hundred miles. At 1000 miles... she was ready for the track.
It's been one of the strongest Zs I have ever driven, period.
You baby it through break-in... rings will NOT set for high RPM. MEANING as your car ages and you rev it out it will burn oil FAR more rapidly.
During my break-in I gave it a nice run through the gears once every hundred miles. At 1000 miles... she was ready for the track.
It's been one of the strongest Zs I have ever driven, period.
02-15-2004, 08:33 PM
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on the contrary, you want to be easy on the car for the first 1200 miles for the rings to break in properly. if you over rev it, then the rings will not sit properly and have premature wear. the rings must be carefully broken in or you will have oil blow by sooner rather than later.
02-16-2004, 04:51 PM
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I copied the info below in part from http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
Very interesting view on engine break in.
What's the Best Way to Break in a New Engine ??
Run it Hard !
Why ??
The piston ring seal is really what the break in process is all about. Contrary to popular belief, piston rings don't seal the combustion pressure by spring tension. Ring tension is necessary only to "scrape" the oil to prevent it from entering the combustion chamber.
If you think about it, the ring exerts maybe 5-10 lbs of spring tension against the cylinder wall ...
How can such a small amount of spring tension seal against thousands of
PSI (Pounds Per Square Inch) of combustion pressure ??
Of course it can't.
How Do Rings Seal Against Tremendous Combustion Pressure ??
From the actual gas pressure itself !! It passes over the top of the ring, and gets behind it to force it outward against the cylinder wall. The problem is that new rings are far from perfect and they must be worn in quite a bit in order to completely seal all the way around the bore. If the gas pressure is strong enough during the engine's first miles of operation (open that throttle !!!), then the entire ring will wear into
the cylinder surface, to seal the combustion pressure as well as possible.
The Problem With "Easy Break In" ...
The honed crosshatch pattern in the cylinder bore acts like a file to allow the rings to wear. The rings quickly wear down the "peaks" of this roughness, regardless of how hard the engine is run.
There's a very small window of opportunity to get the rings to seal really well ...
If the rings aren't forced against the walls soon enough, they'll use up the roughness before they fully seat. Once that happens there is no solution but to re hone the cylinders, install new rings and start over again.
Very interesting view on engine break in.
What's the Best Way to Break in a New Engine ??
Run it Hard !
Why ??
The piston ring seal is really what the break in process is all about. Contrary to popular belief, piston rings don't seal the combustion pressure by spring tension. Ring tension is necessary only to "scrape" the oil to prevent it from entering the combustion chamber.
If you think about it, the ring exerts maybe 5-10 lbs of spring tension against the cylinder wall ...
How can such a small amount of spring tension seal against thousands of
PSI (Pounds Per Square Inch) of combustion pressure ??
Of course it can't.
How Do Rings Seal Against Tremendous Combustion Pressure ??
From the actual gas pressure itself !! It passes over the top of the ring, and gets behind it to force it outward against the cylinder wall. The problem is that new rings are far from perfect and they must be worn in quite a bit in order to completely seal all the way around the bore. If the gas pressure is strong enough during the engine's first miles of operation (open that throttle !!!), then the entire ring will wear into
the cylinder surface, to seal the combustion pressure as well as possible.
The Problem With "Easy Break In" ...
The honed crosshatch pattern in the cylinder bore acts like a file to allow the rings to wear. The rings quickly wear down the "peaks" of this roughness, regardless of how hard the engine is run.
There's a very small window of opportunity to get the rings to seal really well ...
If the rings aren't forced against the walls soon enough, they'll use up the roughness before they fully seat. Once that happens there is no solution but to re hone the cylinders, install new rings and start over again.
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02-16-2004, 05:56 PM
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You want to expose the engine to various rpms without staying at an given rpm range for too long for about the first 500 miles. Then change the oil and filter. After that drive it like you would everyday. Just keep in mind that any engine driven hard a lot will wear faster. If you do not expose the rings to the amount of pressure they will encounter at 4K+ rpms then you run the risk of not seating them properly which could cause blow-by. Your engine may burn more oil which would cause poor performance and poor gas mileage.
02-16-2004, 06:52 PM
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Originally posted by Scrapin 240
on the contrary, you want to be easy on the car for the first 1200 miles for the rings to break in properly. if you over rev it, then the rings will not sit properly and have premature wear. the rings must be carefully broken in or you will have oil blow by sooner rather than later.
on the contrary, you want to be easy on the car for the first 1200 miles for the rings to break in properly. if you over rev it, then the rings will not sit properly and have premature wear. the rings must be carefully broken in or you will have oil blow by sooner rather than later.
i did the same thing for my acura rsx-s that i had before and i was dyno 10-12whp above everyonelse on average.
02-16-2004, 09:01 PM
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my baseline was at 248 which i thought was pretty good and i beat the living hell out of my car since the day i got it.
If we can have more data or people who did "NOT" break in their car by the manual and have a higher than average base dyno then I'd be darned. Either way, I would like to know. I don't want to have to suffer next time around during break-in period only to have a sub-par base dyno performance.
02-17-2004, 03:15 AM
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Originally posted by PhoenixINX
Nice post Shocka...
As for Scrapin 240 and wu350Z, next time you tell someone what the "best thing to do" for their Z is... back it with evidence.
Thanks
Nice post Shocka...
As for Scrapin 240 and wu350Z, next time you tell someone what the "best thing to do" for their Z is... back it with evidence.
Thanks
Drivers Operating Handbook, page 5-17:
Break-In Schedule
During the first 1200 miles, follow these recommendations to obtain maximum engine performance and ensure the future reliability and economy of your new vehicle. Failure to follow these recommendations may result in shortened engine life and reduced engine performance.
*Avoid driving for long periods at constand speed, either fast or slow. Do not run the engine over 4,000RPM.
*Do not accelerate at full throttle in any gear
*Avoid quick starts
*Avoid hard brakaing as much as possible
*Do not tow a trailer for the first 500 miles.
Sooo, ummm, is that sufficient evidence for you? Or do you know something that the engineering department at Nissan does not?
In the future, include "This is my opinion" in posts like your previous one. You are misleading people, intenionally or not, and thats not the point of these forums.
02-17-2004, 08:20 AM
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I believe the biggest issue is the piston rings sealing properly. My opinion on this is that it should happen very quickly and would need a good blast through the RPM range to help get a proper seal.
Maybe someone can enlighten me as to why a new motor needs to be run softly or how piston rings seal?
I have 250 miles on my 04 roadster and have rev'd it to the max already. I have done the same on my Custom 1700CC Yamaha Road Star Warrior (96 Dyno'd HP) as well as my daily driver, 02 Civic Si.
I have not had any problems by doing so.
Maybe someone can enlighten me as to why a new motor needs to be run softly or how piston rings seal?
I have 250 miles on my 04 roadster and have rev'd it to the max already. I have done the same on my Custom 1700CC Yamaha Road Star Warrior (96 Dyno'd HP) as well as my daily driver, 02 Civic Si.
I have not had any problems by doing so.
02-17-2004, 09:30 AM
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i would suggest doing your own research on this one because you will find that people are pretty much 50/50 about proper break in. i personally break it in like i am going to drive it....but i don't see how you could go wrong following the guidelines of the owner's manual
02-17-2004, 10:38 AM
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Thanks for all the help.... I've heard from various people, on the street, that it's the way you drive the car that ultimately determines the way you should break it in... the one thing that concerned me when I started to "push" the vehicle during break-in was the smell from the exhaust, clutch, etc. i knew the engine had to be broken in properly. However, i didn't want to hurt the other parts of the car while doing so.... I plan on upgrading the N/A portion of the car farely soon... with plans of either a Twin Turbo or Supercharged setup somewhere down the line... what waiting periods have most taken before adding either moderate or extreme engine mods????
02-17-2004, 03:08 PM
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I'm sorry but if you think that the manual is evidence then you do not know much about evidence. The manual is simply Nissan's guide to reduce help reduce warranty issues. Evidence is real world testing and experience. In no way does the manual elude to or reference real world proof or back it up with proof. One of the first rules in trusting evidence is considering the source and or funding of the information being provided. That is the very reason many people want independent Dyno information for engine mods. Nissan built the car and if they were always right then how come the tires are all feathering on the majority of 2003 vehicles and the windows streak and etc................
Originally posted by Jetpilot718
Drivers Operating Handbook, page 5-17:
Break-In Schedule
During the first 1200 miles, follow these recommendations to obtain maximum engine performance and ensure the future reliability and economy of your new vehicle. Failure to follow these recommendations may result in shortened engine life and reduced engine performance.
*Avoid driving for long periods at constand speed, either fast or slow. Do not run the engine over 4,000RPM.
*Do not accelerate at full throttle in any gear
*Avoid quick starts
*Avoid hard brakaing as much as possible
*Do not tow a trailer for the first 500 miles.
Sooo, ummm, is that sufficient evidence for you? Or do you know something that the engineering department at Nissan does not?
In the future, include "This is my opinion" in posts like your previous one. You are misleading people, intenionally or not, and thats not the point of these forums.
Drivers Operating Handbook, page 5-17:
Break-In Schedule
During the first 1200 miles, follow these recommendations to obtain maximum engine performance and ensure the future reliability and economy of your new vehicle. Failure to follow these recommendations may result in shortened engine life and reduced engine performance.
*Avoid driving for long periods at constand speed, either fast or slow. Do not run the engine over 4,000RPM.
*Do not accelerate at full throttle in any gear
*Avoid quick starts
*Avoid hard brakaing as much as possible
*Do not tow a trailer for the first 500 miles.
Sooo, ummm, is that sufficient evidence for you? Or do you know something that the engineering department at Nissan does not?
In the future, include "This is my opinion" in posts like your previous one. You are misleading people, intenionally or not, and thats not the point of these forums.
02-17-2004, 07:12 PM
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Originally posted by zzzya
I'm sorry but if you think that the manual is evidence then you do not know much about evidence. The manual is simply Nissan's guide to reduce help reduce warranty issues. Evidence is real world testing and experience. In no way does the manual elude to or reference real world proof or back it up with proof. One of the first rules in trusting evidence is considering the source and or funding of the information being provided. That is the very reason many people want independent Dyno information for engine mods. Nissan built the car and if they were always right then how come the tires are all feathering on the majority of 2003 vehicles and the windows streak and etc................
I'm sorry but if you think that the manual is evidence then you do not know much about evidence. The manual is simply Nissan's guide to reduce help reduce warranty issues. Evidence is real world testing and experience. In no way does the manual elude to or reference real world proof or back it up with proof. One of the first rules in trusting evidence is considering the source and or funding of the information being provided. That is the very reason many people want independent Dyno information for engine mods. Nissan built the car and if they were always right then how come the tires are all feathering on the majority of 2003 vehicles and the windows streak and etc................
Buddy, you can't be serious with that post. Please tell me you were making an attempt at sarcasm...
Evidence is labratory testing that was conducted to find out the optimum engine break in schedule to produce maximum power and engine longevity.
Those manuals represent your "real world testing and experience" done in a controlled and variable environment.
As for your "considering the source", Id like to know what makes people on this forum such as yourself who dont believe in following the operation manual credible. Whats your education background? Im guessing your not an english major by your practically illegible post. Whats your R&D background? Racing background? Please inform myself, and the others waiting to hear about your credibility - which is far superior to Nissan Motors'.
I dont think I could fit enough roll-eyes icons in this post to truly express my disbelief of the incompetence of some people (so I'll just give ya one)
02-17-2004, 07:19 PM
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Originally posted by Jetpilot718
Buddy, you can't be serious with that post. Please tell me you were making an attempt at sarcasm...
Evidence is labratory testing that was conducted to find out the optimum engine break in schedule to produce maximum power and engine longevity.
Those manuals represent your "real world testing and experience" done in a controlled and variable environment.
As for your "considering the source", Id like to know what makes people on this forum such as yourself who dont believe in following the operation manual credible. Whats your education background? Im guessing your not an english major by your practically illegible post. Whats your R&D background? Racing background? Please inform myself, and the others waiting to hear about your credibility - which is far superior to Nissan Motors'.
I dont think I could fit enough roll-eyes icons in this post to truly express my disbelief of the incompetence of some people (so I'll just give ya one)
Buddy, you can't be serious with that post. Please tell me you were making an attempt at sarcasm...
Evidence is labratory testing that was conducted to find out the optimum engine break in schedule to produce maximum power and engine longevity.
Those manuals represent your "real world testing and experience" done in a controlled and variable environment.
As for your "considering the source", Id like to know what makes people on this forum such as yourself who dont believe in following the operation manual credible. Whats your education background? Im guessing your not an english major by your practically illegible post. Whats your R&D background? Racing background? Please inform myself, and the others waiting to hear about your credibility - which is far superior to Nissan Motors'.
I dont think I could fit enough roll-eyes icons in this post to truly express my disbelief of the incompetence of some people (so I'll just give ya one)
What'd the five fingers say to the face?!?
02-17-2004, 07:35 PM
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This is again taken in part from the same site I mentioned in my previous post.
Yeah - But ...
the owner's manual says to break it in easy ...
Notice that this technique isn't "beating" on the engine, but rather taking a purposeful, methodical approach to sealing the rings. The logic to this method is sound. However, some will have a hard time with this approach, since it seems to "go against the grain".
The argument for an easy break-in is usually: "that's what the manual says" ....
Or more specifically: "there may be tight parts in the engine and you might do damage or even seize it if you run it hard."
Consider this:
Due to the vastly improved metal casting and machining technologies which are now used, tight parts in new engines are an extremely very rare occurrence these days. But, if there is something wrong with the engine clearances from the factory, The real reason ???
So why do all the owner's manuals say to take it easy for the first
thousand miles ???
This is a good question ...
Q: What is the most common cause of engine problems ???
A: Failure to:
Warm the engine up completely before running it hard !!!
Q: What is the second most common cause of engine problems ???
A: An easy break in !!!
Because, when the rings don't seal well, the blow-by gasses contaminate the oil with acids and other harmful combustion by-products !!
Ironically, an "easy break in" is not at all what it seems. By trying to "protect" the engine, the exact opposite happens, as leaky rings continue to contaminate your engine oil for the rest of the life of your engine !!
Yeah - But ...
the owner's manual says to break it in easy ...
Notice that this technique isn't "beating" on the engine, but rather taking a purposeful, methodical approach to sealing the rings. The logic to this method is sound. However, some will have a hard time with this approach, since it seems to "go against the grain".
The argument for an easy break-in is usually: "that's what the manual says" ....
Or more specifically: "there may be tight parts in the engine and you might do damage or even seize it if you run it hard."
Consider this:
Due to the vastly improved metal casting and machining technologies which are now used, tight parts in new engines are an extremely very rare occurrence these days. But, if there is something wrong with the engine clearances from the factory, The real reason ???
So why do all the owner's manuals say to take it easy for the first
thousand miles ???
This is a good question ...
Q: What is the most common cause of engine problems ???
A: Failure to:
Warm the engine up completely before running it hard !!!
Q: What is the second most common cause of engine problems ???
A: An easy break in !!!
Because, when the rings don't seal well, the blow-by gasses contaminate the oil with acids and other harmful combustion by-products !!
Ironically, an "easy break in" is not at all what it seems. By trying to "protect" the engine, the exact opposite happens, as leaky rings continue to contaminate your engine oil for the rest of the life of your engine !!