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Has anyone had luck being able to pull the main tensioner glide back up the metal support without taking the entire front timing chain cover off? I strongly suspect that the nylon glide surface has slid downward on the metal arm and the plunger is no longer contacting the glide as it is supposed to. I would love to avoid the large project if I can.
If you do have this issue? I truely recommend taking off the cover and replacing all the guides. You will need to inspect to make sure there is no debris from it coming apart.
If you do have this issue? I truely recommend taking off the cover and replacing all the guides. You will need to inspect to make sure there is no debris from it coming apart.
Ugh. I was hoping you wouldn't say that. Is it possible to pull up the glide and secure it in the short term?
Ugh. I was hoping you wouldn't say that. Is it possible to pull up the glide and secure it in the short term?
Sounds like it's time to learn how or pay a shop to replace guides and the chain. Money well spent IMHO. Sounds like you're at 100k too, so water pump while you're in there too!
Sounds like it's time to learn how or pay a shop to replace guides and the chain. Money well spent IMHO. Sounds like you're at 100k too, so water pump while you're in there too!
I'm actually at 250k. Original everything - even clutch. Ha
I have removed the radiator support and everything else except the condenser (don't want to capture R134a/recharge/etc), and have taken off most accessories. I took off the main tensioner cover, and discovered that things look quite good in there (RELIGIOUS oil changes; no varnish whatsoever in my limited look in).
How can I tell if just the primary tensioner is bad? I put a bar on the main pulley bolt and rotated it slightly back and forth, and the main tensioner collapses very easily, leading to slack in the chain.
Is that the only way I can tell if the main tensioner is bad? The guide looks brand new still: no grooves or wear whatsoever.
Input needed: I'm rotating the engine to match up the colored links, but I'm also paying attention to the cam sprockets, and their dots and lines in relation to the block marks for TDC.
It seems to me that when #1 is on TDC (indicators up; aligned with block marks on both heads and crank notch aligned @ ~10:00), the CRANK mark goes ONE TOOTH TO THE RIGHT when the cams are aligned.
I suppose I could keep spinning the engine to see if the links coincide, but it certainly looks to me like this chain jumped one tooth @ the crank.
Would the motor still spin without interference in that case?
Some research reveals that we have about 2 teeth tolerance before pistons hit valves. I'm going to keep spinning the motor to see if the yellow links and the orange link goes where it's supposed to.
I've rotated the crank enough that the yellow links align TDC w/the cam sprocket dots, and the orange link points @ ~4:00 and lines with the crank gear hashmark. The double links of the exhaust cams gear don't line up, but the detente is pointing straight at the block marks on both sides. It appears as though the timing is just fine. I would really like to know exactly how to tell what's not actually working here, as every single last part looks like it has no wear at all.
I took off the driver's side VVT solenoid, and pulled it out to have a look. Brand new. Nothing whatsoever in the filters. Haven't looked at the passenger side VVT yet; probably will to eliminate it as an issue.
Still can't tell what's up; gotta (somehow) be one of the tensioners - and if it's the main one, this was a lot of work for nothing. Passenger side tensioner is stiffer than the driver's side - feels like spring AND hydraulic resistance (which makes sense to me, as that tensioner pushes DOWN, meaning it would remain filled with oil, while the driver's side would drain - which may be why it pushes in with modest spring pressure resistance; nothing seemingly hydraulic.
I've read something about VVT pins shearing off (in the gear advance mechanism?) and causing a clatter, and I have yet to pull the cam gears. Anyone have any insight on that one?
best thing i would recommend is calling Z1 and talk to one of their techs to guide you in your issue. Would consider doing a oil gallery fastener and gasket upgrade through them while you are in there.
I took off the driver's side VVT solenoid, and pulled it out to have a look. Brand new. Nothing whatsoever in the filters. Haven't looked at the passenger side VVT yet; probably will to eliminate it as an issue.
Still can't tell what's up; gotta (somehow) be one of the tensioners - and if it's the main one, this was a lot of work for nothing. Passenger side tensioner is stiffer than the driver's side - feels like spring AND hydraulic resistance (which makes sense to me, as that tensioner pushes DOWN, meaning it would remain filled with oil, while the driver's side would drain - which may be why it pushes in with modest spring pressure resistance; nothing seemingly hydraulic.
I've read something about VVT pins shearing off (in the gear advance mechanism?) and causing a clatter, and I have yet to pull the cam gears. Anyone have any insight on that one?
Hi Tim: rattle on startup after car has sat for more than a couple of days. I've always assumed that it was a timing chain issue, and I can GREATLY reduce the rattle if I keep the key turned (starter engaged) AFTER the engine catches; it seems to allow the engine to build oil pressure sufficiently in whatever it is which is lacking to prevent/greatly decrease the noise - but I want to fix it.
My guess is one of the tensioners isn't holding oil, or the spring rate is too weak at cold startup, but I'd LOVE to know how the hell to TELL, so I don't replace good parts in here with inferior replacements (these guides literally look brand new; I cannot tell any difference between them and the new parts I have here; same with the gears/teeth).
Is it correct that a VVT problem can also cause a rattle? I haven't had codes, nor do I have hesitation or any other problem that I can tell - and my understanding is that VVT doesn't actuate @ start or idle anyway.
I AM going to pull off the chain, and compare its length to the replacement. Possibly it stretched, and is making the main tensioner work too hard (though I doubt it)?
best thing i would recommend is calling Z1 and talk to one of their techs to guide you in your issue. Would consider doing a oil gallery fastener and gasket upgrade through them while you are in there.
I wasn't going to - they're intact - but the kit I bought with several rings/gaskets included them, so I may as well.
Can someone tell me a P/N for these O rings (circled in red)? I cannot find them; they didn't come with my cover gasket kit. They look like VVT oil passage cover sealing rings, but I am having a dog of a time finding part numbers for them - and I can't see not replacing them.
EDIT: the part # for these: 15066-ZL80A. They're stupid expensive. 6.84mm o rings. The old P/N is 15066-2Y510. Best to get them with the Mahle timing chain gasket kit on Rockauto, because it's only ~$17, and includes 6 of them - rather than $6-$12 PER STUPID O RING.
It looks to me like the OEM chain was stretched - and fitting the new chain on pulled the crank ONE TOOTH counter-clockwise. Earlier, I mentioned wondering if my timing skipped a tooth because @TDC, it looked to me like the key in the crankshaft was one tooth past the 10:00 mark on the oil pump - and sure enough, the new chain pulls the key back to fully aligned.
I wonder how much power was lost as a result of that?
Anyhow, I've now got the valve covers off, and everything looks great there.
Does anyone have any input on how often the cam sprockets go bad? Everything in this engine is in absolutely spectacular shape; no gunk whatsoever - so unless something BROKE in there, I can't see anything bad there either.
I cannot get the exhaust cam bolt on the driver's side off (haven't tried the other side yet). Intake bolt came off no problem. Not sure why, but the hex grip surface on the cam is very close to the valve hat, which I think is monumentally stupid: all they had to do is design it 1/2" closer to the front of the engine, and there would be no worries about a wrench slipping and damaging a valve hat or lobe (I haven't, but this is one of a couple of irritations atm).
The other gripe is that the hex on the cam is 23mm. Who the #($*# has a 23mm wrench? I've used a locking adjustable wrench, but have no way of putting a breaker bar extension on it. Even most crowfoot wrench kits SKIP 23mm, which is really what I need to generate sufficient torque. This focker is fused on that tight. The current setup is a 15/16" crescent mated to another crescent, but it's flexing, and there is a real chance of something slipping and doing damage to something - or me. I've tried a torch, even to the point of bubbling the old tensioner glide.
I may have to resort to buying an impact gun.
Erm...it is 'lefty-loosey', right? The intake bolt was...
03-18-2020, 10:06 PM
Primary Timing Chain Tensioner
