I drive a 350z and I ordered a lip for it. does it actually make it slower? since the lip will apply down force on the front wheels of a rwd?

 

A splitter or a lip? 9/10 lip dont do ****.

 

http://seiboncarbon.com/store/produc...ssan-350z.html
for my 08

 

It will increase drag of the frontal area , but less air will go under the car reducing drag. All in all, it will be pretty close to a push and really not noticeable.

 

If you cant stand on it. Then it isnt going to do anything.

At highways speed, a real splitter will generate 150+ lbs of downforce.

 

Obviously you don't know much about aerodynamics.


Btw, can't stand on my splitter and it's fully functional.

 

how do you know yours is fully functional? Have you taken it yo a wind tunnel? If not, your assumption is base off of advertisement.

I understand aerodynamic just fine. A front splitter should generate about 25-30% of the cars total downforce at 60mph. Thats means that at 100mph it can generate 150+lbs of down force. If you dont believe me, look at f1 cars, look at track monster builds, you will see owners standing on their splitters to show that it indeed will not rip off at competition speeds.

 

f1 runs a front wing, not splitter. Very different. I know a splitter can easily cause 150+ pounds of downforce. I also know that a splitter in proper trim will distribute that force across it and the main amount of force will be in the back where it ends do to the change in air pressure. The downforce is pulling the body of the car down , not the actual splitter.

Sorry no wing tunnel tests, just like the vast majority of cars with aero. Just lap times, seen them drop a lot

Also the OP is talking about a simple lip, and I properly answered that above.

 

thank you terrasmak and turboed350z. thread can be closed now. ive gotten my answer.

 

Youre right f1 uses front wing but my point is that these race car goes soo fast that the df generated are in the 100s of pounds. Time attack cars also uses splitters.

as to better laptime it could easily be you becoming the better driver. Or it could be the lip we can never know.

and my point is yes, the op is using a lip, but for noticeable gain, if it isnt reinforced, itll rip off way before you cannnotice the df its generating. Ask me how i know, got my lip ripped off.

Now im running a different seibon lip that is design to flow air more smoothly, as oppose to creating df.

 

You don't understand much about aero. Lot's of holes and misguided assumptions in everything you said so far.

No surprise, aero talk on nearly all car forums is the blind leading the blind

Here's a good website if you want to start learning:

Mulsanne's Corner

 

Then please correct me. Down force is measured in lbs is it not? If you cant stand on the lip/splitters, then how would downforce be able to "push" down on it without the lip/splitter breaking.

Apr even recommend that their splitters be reinforced. So again correct me where in wrong. I may not be an expert but i do grasp the physic of it.

 

read this: http://www.miataturbo.net/attachment...rs-airdams-pdf

Keep in mind a few things in regards to your stand on it test; a splitter and wing are two different things, so we have to discuss that first.
As you rightfully pointed out time attack cars use splitters, but more often than not the high end TA cars you are referring to (such as the poster child of good aero development: Under Suzuki's Scorch Racing S15) run a splitter/under tray wing hybrid. You can argue what defines a splitter and what defines a wing, but typically a splitter is FLAT and protrudes forward of the bumper. It works by converting some of the drag at the front of the bumper into usable downforce. It also has some effect of generating a lower pressure zone behind the splitter and airdam where the engine under tray would be, but this effect is minimal with a splitter. The splitter generates most of it's downforce close to the bumper and nearly evenly across its width. This is why a single point test such as standing on one spot is a poor test...laying across would be more like it, but even that is not correct as you would be putting a lot of stress on the forward edge of the splitter, where in reality most of the down force is generated close to the bumper/end of the splitter.

As for the wing, those are usually not flat, but heavily curved on the low pressure side and typically the underside/low pressure side of a front wing will go from a 10deg angle up to something like 15deg. Depending on the chord of the wing it can span a good part of the underside of the front bumper with only a small portion protruding forward. Stepping on that front portion wouldn't prove anything (other than the fact that CF or fiberglass can be broken with a shoe) as the downforce generation occurs through the middleish part of the wing which is typically already under and behind the bumper.

Here is a picture showing the front wing/splitter setup on the Scorch Racing S15. Take a very very very good look at how the end of the wing (end closest to the engine) curves up and notice just how long the cord of that wing is as well as how far back towards the engine it is. This car did a 52second lap around Tsukuba (Ludicrous speed) and doesn't seem to need any metal rods to hold the front of it's splitter up so that someone can stand on it.



Here's another 2 very fast TA cars (~55seconds at Tsukuba / stupid fast). They are the 2 Exceed Moat s14s and as you can see: huge splitter, no rods at edge to hold the front edge up, and I guarantee you that if you step on the front edge of them you will have some explaining to do to some pissed off japanese guys.



I don't mean to be a dick, but continue reading and learning as aerodynamics is in general pretty f-ing hard to get a good grasp on and spreading misinformation helps no one.

 

The s15 does indeed have rods connected to it. It may not connect directly to the splitter but it is connect. Also, the s14 could easily have support in the underside of it.

For my understand of aerodynamic, as the car accelerate. It is meet with oncoming air or "drag" the air has to go somewhere. Mostly over and under. As it goes over the spoiler or wing creates down force in the rear.

As it goes under, it has a high pressure zone and the air has to hit the splitter/lip before it goes under the car. That force pushed on the lip/splitter creats downforce and can be in the hundreds of lbs.

I dont think a functional lip/splitter will only be supported by 4 tiny screws in the plastic bumper. Atleast not one that will create enough noticeable downforce.

Youre not a dick. Im happy to learn, but like i said the downforce is measure in lbs and at 100mph that can equate to over 150 lbs. I dont think a piece of plastic held on by 4 screws can handle that much load.

 

The lip you get that is held on 4 screws on completely different than a splitter. A lip may help generate 20 pounds of force at most at speed. Nothing compared to an actual splitter.

 

Len also has real world application vs keyboard conjecture as he is one of the more avid course racers on our site.
( terrasmak)
as for ebay lip function vs real splitter function.. they are simialr and also vastly different.

Fluid ( air) will be affected by ANY shapes it encounters.. the force of which varies widely.
The ebay lip is a subtle splitting of the air where as a larger chassis mount is far from subtle... both exist in the airstream. Both will affect the wind.. but i dont see an ebay lip creating vast pressure differentials or really redirecting anything, no. lol


End of story, is that you should buy an ebay lip for looks... and perhaps enjoy knowing its also "semi functional"...

 

 

I may have word it wrong but i think you understand what in trying to say