500rwhp 11psi stock motor
#42
CJ Motorsports
iTrader: (21)
Peter is right.
Nissan engineers have databased years and years of research in their fuel injection and ignition tuning. No one knows how to tune a car better than the cars manufacturer. Just because they arent tuned for the most power stock.. doesnt mean they arent doing it right... they give it to you exactly how they want it.
It can take a very long time to build a perfect map for a standalone EMS. When all conditions are the same as when you tuned, you can have a ROCK SOLID consistent tune with a standalone... however as temperatures changes and what not.. your correction maps will not be perfect. Depending on the quality of the startup map you use, and how much you change from there you can be really far off.
This doesnt always present a problem if your tuning for conservative anyway... however its not exactly what I would call "Set it and forget it".
See... being the HKS Prodealer... if its really hot or cold out and my car is acting different... I can easily pull over with my laptop and see what correction maps are kicking in and I can make the adjustment on the spot and be done with it. Be the customer and not the Prodealer... all you can do is stare at your gauges and say "YUP, shes running a little rich today"....
if you have a local Prodealer... no big deal... stop by for a little correction tuning, if your base maps are good then it shouldnt take much tinkering...
However I wouldnt say that the piggyback is so solid either... yes its correction maps are PERFECT for your car.... STOCK... but we have all changed so much that the effects of the fuel trim corrections can potentially get exagerated causing the car to run a little leaner/richer under different extremes... but unless you get lucky first time out, it should be more solid then your standalone corrections.
The FCON does let you set a closed loop cycle with the wideband o2 tho... and that will somewhat self correct and learn at all times.
The MAP based piggyback tuning with 1:1 regulator setup is IMHO the best solution for those looking for 400-500rwhp... APS really does give you all you need to get there.... a little bit of piggyback tuning and you should be allll set.
Nissan engineers have databased years and years of research in their fuel injection and ignition tuning. No one knows how to tune a car better than the cars manufacturer. Just because they arent tuned for the most power stock.. doesnt mean they arent doing it right... they give it to you exactly how they want it.
It can take a very long time to build a perfect map for a standalone EMS. When all conditions are the same as when you tuned, you can have a ROCK SOLID consistent tune with a standalone... however as temperatures changes and what not.. your correction maps will not be perfect. Depending on the quality of the startup map you use, and how much you change from there you can be really far off.
This doesnt always present a problem if your tuning for conservative anyway... however its not exactly what I would call "Set it and forget it".
See... being the HKS Prodealer... if its really hot or cold out and my car is acting different... I can easily pull over with my laptop and see what correction maps are kicking in and I can make the adjustment on the spot and be done with it. Be the customer and not the Prodealer... all you can do is stare at your gauges and say "YUP, shes running a little rich today"....
if you have a local Prodealer... no big deal... stop by for a little correction tuning, if your base maps are good then it shouldnt take much tinkering...
However I wouldnt say that the piggyback is so solid either... yes its correction maps are PERFECT for your car.... STOCK... but we have all changed so much that the effects of the fuel trim corrections can potentially get exagerated causing the car to run a little leaner/richer under different extremes... but unless you get lucky first time out, it should be more solid then your standalone corrections.
The FCON does let you set a closed loop cycle with the wideband o2 tho... and that will somewhat self correct and learn at all times.
The MAP based piggyback tuning with 1:1 regulator setup is IMHO the best solution for those looking for 400-500rwhp... APS really does give you all you need to get there.... a little bit of piggyback tuning and you should be allll set.
Last edited by phunk; 01-27-2005 at 09:42 PM.
#43
Sponsor
builtZmotors
builtZmotors
iTrader: (21)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 2,780
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
phunk:
i was just looking through your pics of your car..first off- very nice!
wondering about the insulation wrapped around the fuel lines (so they appear) tied on with plastic ties...i take it this is ok?
also, what wheel/tires size/ offset do you have?
lastly, what test pipes are you using?
Thanks man, your setup is awesome!
i was just looking through your pics of your car..first off- very nice!
wondering about the insulation wrapped around the fuel lines (so they appear) tied on with plastic ties...i take it this is ok?
also, what wheel/tires size/ offset do you have?
lastly, what test pipes are you using?
Thanks man, your setup is awesome!
#45
CJ Motorsports
iTrader: (21)
Originally posted by 350zDCalb
phunk:
i was just looking through your pics of your car..first off- very nice!
wondering about the insulation wrapped around the fuel lines (so they appear) tied on with plastic ties...i take it this is ok?
also, what wheel/tires size/ offset do you have?
lastly, what test pipes are you using?
Thanks man, your setup is awesome!
phunk:
i was just looking through your pics of your car..first off- very nice!
wondering about the insulation wrapped around the fuel lines (so they appear) tied on with plastic ties...i take it this is ok?
also, what wheel/tires size/ offset do you have?
lastly, what test pipes are you using?
Thanks man, your setup is awesome!
#46
Registered User
Regardless of scale they both have to be equal where they cross and they don't..Hp=Tq at 5252RPM..What am I missing. Thanks
I'm very impressed by the numbers attainable with the APS. May have to look at getting a used 350Z for a TT buildup now.
#48
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Illinois
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by motown
man, i really gotta get out and see you and charles. i work in warrenville, so i have no excuses. are you guys close to Gerald Nissan?
man, i really gotta get out and see you and charles. i work in warrenville, so i have no excuses. are you guys close to Gerald Nissan?
Feel free to stop by anytime. If weather permits we can take the Z for a nice spin.
Tuan
#50
Former Sponsor
iTrader: (564)
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Long Island, New York
Posts: 19,266
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes
on
5 Posts
No standalone can ever account for the sweeping changes in temperature or humidity one encounters - it can do a reasonably good job, but if the car is used year round, you'll become good friend's with your tuner over the course of a year (assuming you live in a climate with "seasons")
Good numbers man...hopefully I'll be setting some NA records soon as my own F Con is tuned
Good numbers man...hopefully I'll be setting some NA records soon as my own F Con is tuned
#51
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Albuquerque/NM
Posts: 241
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tuning is critical in any high performance application..granted.
The laws of physics do take place though on stress levels of internal components that were built to certain tolerences by the manufacturer.
You are more then pushing the envelope but we are all grateful of you to be the test mule. I for one would like to see what breaks first, my guess is a main bearing assuming your a/f is correct. If the tune is off I'll go with ringland/piston.
Don't get me wrong, I wish your motor to last 100K miles, I just know at the psi your running, f/i and the compression ratio of the stock motor, it won't last regardless of the tune............Tripp
The laws of physics do take place though on stress levels of internal components that were built to certain tolerences by the manufacturer.
You are more then pushing the envelope but we are all grateful of you to be the test mule. I for one would like to see what breaks first, my guess is a main bearing assuming your a/f is correct. If the tune is off I'll go with ringland/piston.
Don't get me wrong, I wish your motor to last 100K miles, I just know at the psi your running, f/i and the compression ratio of the stock motor, it won't last regardless of the tune............Tripp
Last edited by Speed Dreams; 01-29-2005 at 12:02 AM.
#52
HeY "Zero2prove!. I wanted to "test-fly" ur Z-Rocket
Yesterday. Saw ur car outside but no one was in the shop.
Oh! and how 'bout getting some "GREAT BALSY! numbers! on a certain blue raggedy Duece in your shops backyard.
I godda have a car to keep up with yours now dont I?
Oh! and how 'bout getting some "GREAT BALSY! numbers! on a certain blue raggedy Duece in your shops backyard.
I godda have a car to keep up with yours now dont I?
#53
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Baltimore,MD
Posts: 130
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by Enron Exec
Words are by nature arbitrary. Numbers are definate.
(Torque x Engine speed) / 5,252 = Horsepower
Words are by nature arbitrary. Numbers are definate.
(Torque x Engine speed) / 5,252 = Horsepower
462.4 x 4900= 2265760/5250= 431.6 HP
Both tq and HP graphs are accurate but have to fit on the same sheet. I guess I'm beating a dead horse, but I hope this clears up the dyno graph HP vs. TQ mystery.
#54
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Long Island
Posts: 448
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: 500rwhp 11psi stock motor
Originally posted by zero2prove
Stock motor
APS TT kit
APS Cat deletes
APS Dual Exhaust
11psi of boost
93 octane
some tuning
For those that don't view the other Z forums.
Stock motor
APS TT kit
APS Cat deletes
APS Dual Exhaust
11psi of boost
93 octane
some tuning
For those that don't view the other Z forums.
On the left hand side of the graph it says "Tq Flywheel"... Are these numbers reflecting Flywheel number or RWHP ? Please Explain
#56
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Houston
Posts: 1,756
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by zbicklin
I guess to prove your statement correct, let's take the torque peak of 462.4 @ 4900rpm according to the dyno. The corresponding HP # @ 4900rpm looks to be about 430 whp. So...
462.4 x 4900= 2265760/5250= 431.6 HP
Both tq and HP graphs are accurate but have to fit on the same sheet. I guess I'm beating a dead horse, but I hope this clears up the dyno graph HP vs. TQ mystery.
I guess to prove your statement correct, let's take the torque peak of 462.4 @ 4900rpm according to the dyno. The corresponding HP # @ 4900rpm looks to be about 430 whp. So...
462.4 x 4900= 2265760/5250= 431.6 HP
Both tq and HP graphs are accurate but have to fit on the same sheet. I guess I'm beating a dead horse, but I hope this clears up the dyno graph HP vs. TQ mystery.
Check this out, plug in any amount of power and the same amount of torque, then use 5250 as the rpm.
#57
Sponsor
builtZmotors
builtZmotors
iTrader: (21)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 2,780
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by Speed Dreams
I for one would like to see what breaks first, my guess is a main bearing assuming your a/f is correct. If the tune is off I'll go with ringland/piston.
I for one would like to see what breaks first, my guess is a main bearing assuming your a/f is correct. If the tune is off I'll go with ringland/piston.
TODD
#58
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Albuquerque/NM
Posts: 241
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by 350zDCalb
The connecting rods have proven to be the weak link in the vq platform...although I'm sure the other components like the main bearing or the piston/rings could fail as well...but it seems like most blow up from a broken rod
TODD
The connecting rods have proven to be the weak link in the vq platform...although I'm sure the other components like the main bearing or the piston/rings could fail as well...but it seems like most blow up from a broken rod
TODD
How's the motor coming along? Come dyno when it's broken in, love to see how much hp/tq it will make.
#59
Sponsor
builtZmotors
builtZmotors
iTrader: (21)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 2,780
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by Speed Dreams
Yes Todd your correct, I failed to mention rods with bearing (seen both from someones back yard handy work).I see You have been doing your home work............
How's the motor coming along? Come dyno when it's broken in, love to see how much hp/tq it will make.
Yes Todd your correct, I failed to mention rods with bearing (seen both from someones back yard handy work).I see You have been doing your home work............
How's the motor coming along? Come dyno when it's broken in, love to see how much hp/tq it will make.
we'll see
TODD