Pilot_Z

iTrader: (13)

Agreed...the first couple of pages were quite polite and now
Lots of good info is coming out of this...especially for someone like me that has decided that ST is the way to go. MIA and Peter, you have your (strong) opinions for obvious reasons, try not to degrade the competition....that will happen later on the street.

Z_Pilot

Vic N

Agreed. No tuning is a big plus. Do you think people want to tune for the fun of it? They tune to get the car running correctly. Tuning is costly and time consuming. I run a AEM EMS on my Supra, so I know. Looking at the dyno graphs of the Turbonetics kit, the a/f ratio looks great, so there is no need to complain about something that works. If your looking to get ahead of the crowd, then this is not your kit. The reflashed ECU isn't your only problem, but the small T3/60-1 turbo and injectors are another.

Only thing I would be worried about is the extra heat generated in the engine bay by the turbo. Imagine all those hot pipes, the pipe linking the two manifolds and then running up to the front to mate to the turbo, and the downpipe.

Vic N

As for this thread, it is now beat to death. All informative information has been presented and the replies are now turning into useless rambling.

MIAPLAYA

iTrader: (3)

I disagree.... The reflash is both a very effective tuning method but it takes the guess work out of the install. If it is tunability you want Turbonetics is selling a "tuner" version of this kit. I believe vendor price will be about $4000. Using that price you could absolutely purchase the tuning method of your choice and go from there. ORRRRRRRRR Lets say you do purchase the full kit. If for nothing more then to get the injectors and fuel pump. Then you can do the flash and STILL add a piggy back controller later for further tunability. The options are limitless and with the price of the full kit at $4750 you could have all the power you want for no that much dough....


In regards to turbo size the 60-1 is in no way shape or form even close to a T-3 If anything the closest comparison is a T04 but the 60-1 is bigger..

Quote from the Turbonetics site about the 60-1 Keep in mind that Turbonetics is ALL ABOUT custom setups. So to begin with the compressor wheel used in this turbo is a custom spec for this kit. Second should you want your initial power output to be a bigger amount Turbonetics is ready willing and able to include a 62-1 (almost identical size physically) with your kit for more power... The 62-1 is a good 10% more airflow then the 60-1. If you want HUGE power with your kit a T66 should fit just fine in the current turbo location. Of course you would need to contact Turbonetics for that kind of setup but like I said and Brad posted earlier. Turbonetics is all about custom designs and applications. There is no grab this turbo off the shelf and insert here.... All of their compressor wheels are made custom to the application.

MIAPLAYA

iTrader: (3)

I think me and Peter have worked out some of our misgivings should be all data from here on out... Mods please feel free to delete my postings but PLEASE leave the data pertaining to the kits...

Vic N

Miaplaya,

What are you disagreeing with? Please re-read my post.

As with the turbo sizing, pelase re-read my post once again. I never compared the 60-1 comrpessor to the T3. What I said was that the T3/60-1 turbo in the Turbonetics kit is a small turbo for big power.

G2FAST

I agree! Good posting.

mojo powered

iTrader: (2)

I think just a reflash or just a piggy back is not 100% of the tuning game either. People tend to forget that this car does not come with a turbo from factory. So the ECU does NOT have ANY boost controlling features so all the tuning is done assuming a certain boost range and ECU cannot increase or decrease the boost because it has no control over it.

On the other hand, the piggyback does have boost control features but it doesn't have the self adjusting features of the stock ECU (I'm thinking cold starts and weather changes etc). With just the piggyback, you would need to get it tuned at least once a year to keep everything in check, I'd say probably twice a year with a cold waether tune and a warm weather tune at the minimum.

So I think a combination of a flash and a piggyback is the way to go. For daily street use, I think this combination would be even a better choice than a standalone. Obviously, to get the ultimate power potential, nothing can touch a standalone.

MIAPLAYA

iTrader: (3)

I was disagreeing that there is no further info left to give. I think there is a lot....thats all.... When I read your post I thought you were saying the 60-1 was like a T3..Sorry for the misunderstanding. Just curious why do you call it a T3/60-1

xxlbeerZ

iTrader: (8)

If I want to install their kit on the weekend, I have to remove my ECU on Tuesday or Wed. to allow them their 2-3 day turnaround on flashing, PLUS mail time. I was being generous with that install time. Even if they did do it in true two day fashion, you're still out of a car at least 3 days (maybe 5 or 6). Plus add that same amount of time for uninstall.

Also, tuning may have been a bad word to use, maybe flexibility to accomodate slight boost, timing, weather, track conditions, etc. IMO, people who are shopping for drop it in and forget about it solution for FI aren't shopping for turbo, they'd be much better off going with something like the Stillen SC.

MIAPLAYA

iTrader: (3)

Actually the Turbonetics kit includes a Overnight box and shipping label to send the ECU to Turbonetics. In the install instructions it recommends removing and shipping the ECU as the first part of the kit. Once the ECU is recieved it is tuned and overnight shipped back to you. You could bring your car to the shop for install late Monday afternoon and have them pull the ECU and ship. They would then spend the next full day (while Turbonetics flashs the ECU) installing the kit (8-10 hours install). It then gets overnighted back to you. So its now Wednesday the ECU should arrive that morning plug it in and turn it on. Of course if you are installing gauges etc along with the turbo kit the downtime could be used to begin installing those..

Brandon@Forged

What do you mean mail perhaps? I believe you know the answer to that.

Brandon@Forged

Yep, you can't tune your ECU with a piggyback while your car is getting a turbo installed.

xxlbeerZ

iTrader: (8)

Yeah I thought about that too, besides underhood temps, isn't there stuff in that area which will sustain heat damage from having the turbo there? There's plenty of plastic and paint there, and turbo's get much hotter than normal exhaust piping...

xxlbeerZ

iTrader: (8)

I thought when I read the install manual it said to allow Turbonetics 2 to 3 days to do the flash + mail time. Maybe I'm wrong, but I am sure they did not specify one day turnaround....

You know if I could get an ECU from the junkyard for a decent price, then this kit might be good so I always have my stock spare.

MIAPLAYA

iTrader: (3)

Well its not a one day turnaround. If it ships on Monday you should have it back by Wed. Thats about 2-3 days. But like I said if you are going to be installing gauges etc you could have the other work done Monday without the ECU in the car. The actual install will take all of Tuesday and probably some of Wed morning. A few hours after the install is complete (using my examples time frame) you should have the ECU back which is enough time to complete the clean up/ button up for whatever other installs you do.

As for underhood temps there have been zero heat issues motor wise with the kit so far on their Z or mine. My Z has about 750 miles of street time with the kit installed. That includes rush hour, freeway, streets, flogging, driving civil, and driving off boost. Their car has thousands of miles and was even driven on several road trips to and from places (ie: from Simi Valley to the Mossy Show which is about a 4 hour drive) with no heat issues to date. The paint, surrounding parts, etc look just fine. Turbonetics does of course include a very nice fitting heatshield for the turbo and heat wraps/replaces anything near the turbo that may be affected by heat...

MIAPLAYA

iTrader: (3)

Here is the actual text from the instructions:


I guess it should have ended with from the time you ship it...

keeptrying

iTrader: (5)

Mia I see your still keeping the dream alive. As usual your putting up with lots of BS and Peter hasn't changed. I should be boosted and ready to roll next week. I will send you the dyno chart etc.

MIAPLAYA

iTrader: (3)

SWEEETTTT!!! My car should be fixed and on the road in a couple weeks. Maybe we can meet up at the Tues GTGs....

slaponte

iTrader: (2)

So lets review. I just spent the last few hours ( I am at work so part time reading) going over the thread. And I am left with these "impressions" (yours might vary and thats ok):

- The APS guy (Peter?) comes through as a sales or marketing expert. The way he presents info a lot of it seems "prepared". He insist on using the full name of the product every time ("the true dual blah blah") which seems like a marketing ploy to inplant the brand recognition on the consumers. Nothing wrong with all that, don't take offense, but it is received in that context, ie, "might say what I want to hear to sell me his product".

- Mia, of course, comes through as an extremely happy consumer (which he is) that is a fan of a product that has worked well for him. I am sure been able to go there and meet the manufacturer, etc helped a lot on the afinity you feel for the product. No ofense either. You have lots of data, but admit a lot of it is hearsay. I think it is a great thing for you to admit that.

What about us, trying to decide? After all this reading seems to me both systems are fairly balanced, the cons are mostly in our heads because we have no long term data, and most of the doubts won't be put to rest until the systems are out, installed, runned for a while and some results produced in a variety of cars. So far, most of what I read is "mine is better" "no, mine is better" arguments flying back and forth.

For me, I would say this : if I had to decide right now, at this point I would buy the Turbonetics because of (a) cost, (b) warranty, (c) locality, (d) information provided (<= I used to read the thread when it was developed and was always imnpressed with their sharing of info on the process).

That said I just spent a few minutes at the APS home page. It would be kind of cool to have an APS solution, from the intake plenum to the turbo and out the duals... but $$$$ brrrr....

If you disagree thats ok, this is just my opnion not even worth the famous 0.02...