I'd be very interested to see an actaul measurement as I know that APS engineers clearly stated that a 3'' down pipe from the turbo charger was not possible whilst retainaing sufficient air space/gap to maintain safety for other engine components.


I can promise you that you will wipe out the front cross member and half the Z well before you get any where near contacting the turbocharger with any foreign product.

The good news is APS engineers have been testing the single turbo Z car all winter over very rough secondary roads and I'm 100% confident that the entire turbo system has much more ground clearance than the lowest car component, Ive pounded the car to death nearly and the Z car has not flinched even once.

Seems to me that the fastest turbo charged race cars on the planet have been using scavenge pump systems for over 20 years, I'm not at all concerned with this issue given the extreme high quality and thorough testing and engineering behind the pump product, if this scavenge pump is reliable enough for the aero industry its' reliable enough for me.

Thanks

Peter

 

Well from the pics you have its hard to believe that. The turbine housing is sitting VERY low and if you lower the car any further its going to be an issue. At least from the pics you have avail. What you fail to mention is the cars that use the race application pumps are utilizing more then just a pump and have a dry sump etc going. Some more pics would be helpful but based on the pics there are I can't agree with that statement.

 

Look at the turbone housing in relation to the exhaust piping



Tell me its not hanging below the pipe. I know i have scraped/banged my exhaust piping plenty of times on speed bumps etc.

 

There's no chance of knocking an oil line off the turbo, as I posted earlier you will tear half the front off the car before you even get close to the turbocharger and it's plumbing, you should see some of the roads that APS engineers have been testing on, very cruel though an excellent durability testing ground to prove out APS systems.

At APS we very are big on road/field testing APS FI products, this way we will see and experience a problem (rectify any potential problem before product release) so that you guys don't.

Thanks

Peter

 

Wow.....from that picture it does look pretty low! I wonder if there's a better angle from which to judge?

 

The APS turbocharger position is well above the cross member and would be impossible to come into contact with any road debris under any road/off road conditions, no need to be concerned as APS engineers has put the single turbo system through a gruelling test procedure.

There's also a significant protection sheilding in the APS turbo system to keep road debris well away.

Thanks

Peter

 

I have a track model, which has some extra underbody aerodynamic panels. One of these, I believe, covers the area where the turbo would be installed. Any idea how this panel would be affected by either the placement or the heat of the turbo?

If I'm right about where the turbo would install, and this panel can still be used, it would certainly give the turbo some protection, but might not allow enough space for proper cooling.

 

Based on the pic you provided it looks like the turbine housing is behind the crossmember and is DEFINITELY lower then the piping. As I said I can post pics of my scratched cats from speed bumps, etc. Now its one thing to scratch piping and wince but doing that to the turbine housing would be VERY bad. So may things could break, starting with the flange bolts on both sides. And from the looks of that picture there is no way you can tell me that water/snow cannot contact the rather hot turbine housing. Furthermore with the water feed line being on the bottom it too can be snagged. I have a very good real world example of a rock that managed to bang the hell out of my rear lower frame brace on the way back from SEMA last year. It didn't touch my nose or otherwise but mashed my rear crossmember nicely into my exhaust pipe.

 

The APS single turbo does sit a little lower than the twin turbos. I actually view this as a significant advatange not a disadvantage, this turbo position actually allows the turbo charger to dissipate the extreme exhaust gas temperatures generated by the turbo charger to atmosphere quickly thus avoiding all of unwanted high under hood air temperatures.

High under hood air temperatures really hurts engine power under full power conditions and is the engines biggest enemy when it comes to producing high and consistent Horsepower.

The real issue to consider here is that all of the exhaust gas from all 6 cylinders has to be expelled via the one turbocharger, it takes an awesome sized down pipe to cope with this huge amount of exhaust gas.

This is the primary reason why the APS single turbo is situated lower as the turbo housing size and down pipe sizing (a massive 3.5'' down pipe is required) is absolutely critical to achieve awesome gas flow, low exhaust back pressure, high power and torque, and to efficiently remove/expell the unwanted high temperature generated to atmosphere, all good.

Thanks

Peter

 

And what are you views on raising the ambient temperature next to what has already been a problematic transmission?

 

That's the real value of APS's thorough road testing and many years of turbo system design, the product is well proven and tested prior to product release, it's not where you start that counts rather where you finish.

At APS we always much prefer to take the required time for thorough testing than rush into the market, our name is worth much more than a few lost sales.

Thanks

Peter

 

actually i dont think its everyday ordinary road debris id be worried about, its speedbumps, occasional roadkill, things of that nature, i know ive all but destroyed the underside of my car, its lowered of course, but my injen exhaust cannisters, along with my factory ypipe is scratched all up, AND my crossmember is actually bent in some places, several parking decks that i pull into have almost caused me to literally get stuck on my crossmember, and that oil feed line is AT THE BOTTOM!

 

Mia, the photograph was taken from a particular angle to show the relevant components clearly. I can see how you could mistakenly believe that the turbocharger assembly is low, but this is definitely not the case.

The safety of the turbocharger and its associated components from road debris should be of no concern at all - and the engineering/testing conducted by APS further supports this.

As Peter has already stated, you would need to do significant damage to the underside of the car (crushing rails and sheet metal) before going anywhere near the turbocharger.

George

 

EXACTLY. I mean come on how many of us lower our cars... damn near everybody. Theres some times when a speed bump or large road debris is just impossible to avoid. a la my Vegas return trip. The last thing I need is to have a speed bump or otherwise stress, smack, flex, etc my turbine housing. FWIW I think thats the water feed on the bottom but it doesn't really matter what it is. If something hooks that SS braided line a LOT of crap is going for a ride.

 

I think I'll wait till both systems are out and have been reviewed by various customers before I select which one to purchase. The reason the turbonetics first appealed to me was the fact that it was cost efficient, easy to install and looked good on top of all that. Aren't there single turbo supras and high hp skylines with the turbos sitting in the engine bay? I could have sworn I've seen so many pics showing this on supras and skylines. The APS system also looks appealing though as they seem to be including the CAS wire, a fuel return system and good engine management. Oh well we'll see. I have the money in my hands right now but I guess I'll keep saving for internals as well as sleeves and what not.

-Drew

 

As I've said previously you will wipe out half the car before you get anywhere near the turbocharger, that's a promise.

By the way what size down pipe do you think is possible from an engine compartment mounted turbocharger, (over the A/C compressor) this I would be very interested to know, would you take a measurement of the down pipe right behind the turbine housing and let me know, I think you find this is only 2.75'' at best.

Thanks

Peter

 

Well heres the only other pic you have



If you look at it the turbine housing is AT LEAST as low as the underside of my stock cats. With the way I've scraped those to shreds along with all the pics I see of mangled y pipes, etc theres no way I would be able to keep the turbo safe. I don't think anyone with even a moderately lowered car will. I'm not saying you are going to hit something head on and do damage. But as I'm sure you know its not what you hit while driving on the road all the time. Speedbumps, rocks, etc are perfect examples.

 

Sorry but the pics you have just don't support that statement. I'll be happy to take a measurement for you. Although I must say that I am MORE then happy having a 3" downpipe as opposed to:

(A) Scraping and banging my turbine housing against speed bumps

(B) Having nice cold water splash onto my turbine housing during operation

(C) Having something snag my water feed

(D) Having to worry about ANOTHER pump and point of failure

(E) Having an huge heat source parked right next to the one item in the Z that has been shown to fail over and again (read transmission)

 

Mia, let me say it again but in a different way. The crossmember, side rails and a plethora of stock components sit well below the turbocharger. To damage the turbocharger you would have to completely destroy these components first. In addition, if you did damage these components so badly that the turbocharger came into contact with the speed hump, sufficient energy will have already been absorbed in destroying the underside of the car to limit the impact energy upon the turbocharger - which after all is a massive and very robust ni-resist casting.

I think that you're trying to create an issue where it does not exist in the real world.

George

 

I get your point very clearly though if the decision is between an insufficiently sized down pipe ( around 2.75'' which will limit the future power potential of the engine) and very high under hood temperature versus slightly less ground clearance to the large 3.5'' engine pipe and a much cooler engine compartment then I'll go with the slightly lower down pipe all day, every day, just my 2 cents worth.

The oil line is well above the cross member, there is no possible way you could ever hit the oil line unless you completly wiped out the cross member and half the car first which is highly unlikely imho

Thanks

Peter