phunk

iTrader: (21)

Greddy kit is just fine... There are far too many running it with huge success. When a car blows up first day out, its obviously an install problem. The only reason APS has not blown an engine yet is because they have an idiot proof install, the only thing you could possibly screw up is the physical install of the turbo system which would not blow the engine.... the wiring and tuning is fool proof because its just plug and play... where as the greddy kit requires hand wiring and professional tuning to run any more than 5.5psi.

Not to mention the tuning provided with the APS kit exceeds the boost pressure that their turbochargers are even capable of out of the box... most people cant get past 10 psi out of them, and the lucky ones are maxing out at 12.... compared to the greddy kit which is out of the box tuned for only 5.5 psi but the existing setup can produce much more boost.... my greddy kit is currently running 14.5 psi with the stock wastegate springs with my boost controller only at 72% duty cycle.

the greddy kit is a fine kit and there are several things about it that makes me prefer it over the APS kit. each kit has its place and I think that its very obvious and research will show that if you want to set it and forget it and make 400-500rwhp on a stock engine and have the least ammount of worries, then the APS kit might be the best kit for you... but if you tinker at all, KNOW WHAT YOUR DOING, and want to have a tunable setup then there is no debate that having a setup that can only be tuned by an APS dealer in going to become a huge expense.

Each kit has its place, APS comes with a lot more stuff out of the box... but the Greddy is an AWESOME tuner setup and with the proper prescription of parts and tuning added it can easily match the performance and reliability with increased serviceability and less weight.

As for the oil capacity talk... I have only run 5 quarts in my car at all times and never had a problem. APS will tell you to run 5 quarts even with their larger oil pan. No added oil is reason needed.

It is my opinion that if a car blows first day out with the greddy kit, then someone probably wired it wrong or overboosted by hooking up the wastegates incorrectly. (not that this is what anyone wants to hear after they just cost themselves several thousands of dollars)

Dirty Dave

iTrader: (8)

I second that, everyone here that has blown a stock motor from a greddy kit, I think we should voice are opinions to greddy. Not it will probably matter to them , but y anever know.

etx

I'm getting really sick of the ******** you people post on this board every time someone blows a motor up.

1. If your gonna be a ****** don't turbo your Z or any NA motor for that matter because that's not what it's built for.

2. Blowing a motor up isn't a big deal. Anyone here that has blown up their motor with a FI kit has nobody to point the finger at other than them selfs. Standard stupid american additude pushing the blame in every direction other then their own. Don't be a *****.

3. If your gonna turbo your Z and you don't want to blow it up rebuild it with proper parts before you turbo it. 10.3:1 on a street car with nothing more that a piggyback isn't gonna last long.

4. If you wanna go fast for cheap go buy a street bike.

I blew my motor up, and I knew it was gonna happen. I'm not butthurt about it and everyone needs to quit blaming vendors. Go get your fart cannons and shiny intakes, this forum is filled with fliping ricers.

Edit:
If you can't take responsibility for your own actions stay in the basement you trolls.

mcderns

iTrader: (3)

I am with Phunk on this one. I had him install and tune my kit, and I am not worried at all about it blowing my motor. I am very mechanically inclined, and could have done the whole install myself. I just felt safer paying someone who has done it more than a few times, and has the experience to do it right. It just takes a miswired wire for the emanage and poof, your up in smoke. And on that note, I love my greeedy TT's!

Rayden2001

iTrader: (3)

WOW!! Amen Yeah etx, you are very right. I'm putting on my turbo kit next week and I'm praying that I blow this motor so my girlfriend is forced to let me get my stroker kit sooner. But until then I have to wait till winter Knowing my luck the damn thing will probly run perfect till winter..blow B!tch BLOW!!! Hehe

Brandon@Forged

Well if you weren't pushing the limits of the rods, it was something you did not upgrade (fuel supply problem (doubtful with a new Walbro fuel pump), scattered ignition timing (didn't get a shielded C&CAS wire), etc.).

Brandon@Forged

If it was out-of-the-box and had scattered ignition timing, it's the owners fault for not getting a shielded crank angle sensor wire...JMO. (if you do research with anything you usually won't get screwed over)

Dirty Dave

iTrader: (8)

Hey I think you should go f**k yourself. For one yea I was a little pissed about blowing my motor, but just gonna rebuild. Another think you don't know me so don't be so quick to be an internet tuff guy and yea i'm far from a ricer. So keep the comments to yourself d**k head.

g356gear

iTrader: (12)

I agree with much of what you say etx...but maybe a little more tact might be warranted. You know you are going to see comments from the un-informed....its the nature of the board. It's something that comes with the territory....and yes I get very frustrated sometimes too with some of the comments made.

overZealous1

iTrader: (27)

i hate to see different f/i companies get blamed or categorized for blowing motors, thus making people scared to use the same product. the motor does not care if the turbos say greddy, turbonetics, aps, or what ever anyone uses. ati's got blamed for blowing alot of motors yet i was running one at 15psi on a stock motor with no timing change or safety device. ati figured i was running in the 550-575hp range!! i had it running rich on purpose which after 15,000 miles did wash the cylinders and lost a little compression. so now doing a built motor with a greddy tt.
it depends on how close you have the motor tuned (if at all) cause one small computer glitch will blow any motor with any type f/i on it. about the only real difference between what the cylinders actually see would be intercooler efficientcy (for heat reasons) between all the different kits. true some kits are more complete than others, but easy enough to buy the missing parts separately.
btw-sorry to hear about the motor dude!! catastrophic failure is not fun!

narkotic

iTrader: (3)

ETX always takes it just a tad too far, I respect him as a tuner, but man, getting laid will cure that sour attitude.

Dirty Dave

iTrader: (8)

Yea his attitude is just a little bit sour, sorry everyone else for the language ignorant people like that just annoy me.

JimRHIT

iTrader: (6)

Hey Dave,

I am 99% sure he is not trying to offend you here. He is here to quiet those that come on your thread to tell you "greddy sucks" or "i told you so". etx has been around a while ... and also blew his motor w/ greddy .. so he is sensitive to threads like this with trolls that rant on about greddy sucking. Don't worry about it ... 2 months from now, I am 99% sure you will have one of the quickest street cars in all of b-lo
-jim

Gman2004

iTrader: (8)

For every Greddy TT that blows a motor I would guess there are hundreds that have no problems. Unfortunately I bent a rod with my kit, but consider myself very lucky that no other damage occured. IMO opinion it has to be the install or the tune that blows the motor. How else can you explain the post below.
From what I have seen this is the most miles anyone has put on their car while FI.

Rayden2001

iTrader: (3)

Yeah, I read hundreds of etx's post and know what or how hes trying to say on the boards. Its just when you type out something it tends to sound harsh sometimes unless you've read that persons posts hundreds of times and then you relate to them. But etx is cool so don't take his post to the heart its not aimed towards you But now you get to build a stronger Z , thats whats gonna kick some a$$

APS

Sharif this has zero to do with the actual wastegate (we have already sized the wastegate for high power applications), it's really do with the turbo boost control actuator that we supply in the base turbo system - this actuator is purposely designed to be at it's limit at 12 PSI (at around 500 WHP) as that's where the APS base fuel supply runs out.


To the contrary Sharif, APS is developing a big fuel system to support much higher Horsepower and the boost control actuators will be supplied with the big fuel system. This APS big fuel system will be thoroughly engineered, tested, and packaged in a professional turn key way that APS customers demand and expect from APS.


I'm sure they will be able to source actutors for higher turbo boost. My main concern is that the base APS twin turbo fuel system is designed to support a maximum of 12 PSI (that's much higher than any other FI system out of the box) and I don't like to see guys damage a good engine by running the engine lean. This is precisiely why APS is developing a fully engineered big fuel system that works perfectly in conjunction with the APS twin turbo system on a built high powered VQ engine.

Just the other side of the story, sorry for the rant though I don't appreciate being called unresponsive as I answer every email and pm within a 24 hour period - I think that's very good customer service imho.

Thanks

Peter

phunk

iTrader: (21)

The problem here, IMHO, is that APS is using this (most likely coincidental issue that is being called intentional) as means to capatilize further and make their systems even more proprietary. First of all, not everyone can even get to 12 psi, specifically engines with cams are having more trouble.

The APS kit is a great kit, but its proprietariness is going to be its ultimate downfall if APS continues to "protect the consumer from damaging their engine" by demanding more profits off of future released systems rather then giving the customers and tuners the decision to do what they want or see best fit for the application. I already know of a couple APS cars running around on a E-Manage... and we are very close to making this move in one of my customers cars.

It is my OPINION that this approach will work for APS for quite some time, as most consumers are scared shitless to let the tuners do their job with the car... but as soon as more engine management solutions are available these proprietary issues are going to be the demise of the kits popularity. No one is going to spend the extra $$$ for an APS kit when they can get another kit, install a standalone, do a fuel system to their owns specs, and build their own car how they want it... because all the added greatness of the APS kit will suddenly mean zilch.

Once the consumers and the broad spectrum of tuners outside of the APS dealer list have more control over the engine management... the kit will be obsolete for those seeking mega HP, with water cooled turbos being the only advantage.

The APS big fuel system will be great for those who want a cookie cutter reliable high HP Z... but the masses who are REALLY looking for the power APS is saying their turbos and future fuel system with actuator upgrade will make are going to go full standalone for the REALITY in precise engine control, and toss that unichip and the additional injectors in the garbage. I personally see this decision to only sell the actuators with your fuel system as an attempt to hold on control, but ultimately its a downward spiral, the ride will end, and actuators will be sourced outside of APS.

I am currently following several leads on upgraded actuators for the Garret turbos that APS utilizes in their kit. I have a customer who wants his 12 psi of boost and he wants it now. He doesnt want your entire fuel system, and he doesnt want to wait. Since APS is not interested in helping out customers in this situation, APS will be slowly releasing the control over cars running their kits that they have had to date.

I really dont see why APS will not sell the actuators seperately. The "R&D" required for APS to retail a set of say .6-.7 bar actuators would only takes hours.

So how about just making everyone happy, and allowing those who want just actuators the ability it EASILY locate actuators?

The one thing that has left me wondering Peter... months ago when I approached you with concerns of why my customers car was having trouble making proper boost, you could only speculate that I had done something wrong. Doesnt sound like this was an engineering task at all, if you ask me.

Peter... I still ****in love you. Just make everyone's life easier and get us some damn actuators.

Brandon@Forged

The only advantage to APS when you take away the engine management (which, from a friend who has been in the automotive business for over 30 years, and has been involved in almost every racing industry there is, says that Unichip is crap, and has personal experience with APS kits not making the power they claim on certain WRX's) and fuel system is...

You don't have to remove your front bumper brace for the intercooler.
If you want big HP, it's much easier to swap out the turbocharger [parts] to achieve it.

I wonder what's going to happen when AEM comes out with their EMS...will be a decade or so from now, but it sure will get interesting.

I think APS would do alot better if they sold tuner kits. (no engine management, no fuel system)

phunk

iTrader: (21)

Your feedback sounds pretty accurate to me.

I dont think APS needs to bother with a tuner kit, since the fuel system and unichip probably only cost them another $100... but the harness might be expensive to make, and I dunno the injectors they probably get for peanuts since probably purchase them by the 1000.

Besides the APS kit is absolutely flawless/perfect for what it does out of the box and what it was originally advertised to do. But after that its about time to let go. I dont think they should sell a tuner kit at all... but I do think they need to open up to the fact that not everyone is going to want a car with NOTHING but APS parts on it, and there will be a point where the strict proprietariness of their solutions will start to eat away at sales of even the basic kit, because it will leave people with less future options.

If I am following my clues correctly, there are some guys working on a plug and play solution to run an autronic with fly by wire.... if this happens, I might actually have a reason to let go of my beloved FCON! My FCON has given me the true opurtunity at precise engine control that no ammount of piggybacks with additional injectors could ever come near... but there are a few small bugs with it not being able to handle the fly by wire itself... if someone offers a plug and play solution for the Autronic... they are going to sell a system to anyone looking for over 500hp in their Z... which sounds great because then I can sell them *MY* fuel system to compliment it!

phunk

iTrader: (21)

ahhh crap... i just realized that i posted this in completely the wrong thread... I bet I am easily the most off topic guy posting on the forum. Damnit Peter it was your fault this time.