What are the issues that you found Charles? If you please

Az

 

Thanks for sharing Todd. I will be posting another thread with more information on the ForgedInternals.com exclusive Arias Extreme Duty pistons. I think you will all really like this design for very high boost applications, or those that want a little extra measure of safety, vs. the standard, but very good Arias shelf pistons.

More details in another thread...

 

[QUOTE=350zDCalbI reflashed my ECU to address the timing issue--the standard map was copied into the advanced map location-can't advance past 19degrees at peak power...plus i'll pull another 5-6 degrees with the e-manage (thanks Mike and Dave at ALTERED ATMOSPHERE)
[/QUOTE]


Sorry to hear about your motor.

I am confused on the ECU flash. Did you have it flashed before you had smoke. I can remember reading one of your post soon after your car was up and running again that you were going to flash the ECU.

 

two questions:

I feel your pain, hopefully only empathetically.

a) I think I see from your pics that the ring lands fractured on the ether the top or bootom of the bore? Were ther eany fractureds on the front or rear?

b) It wouldlseem that with 9:1 CR , woudln't one want to flash in the agressive map for the top two maps and de-tune to that under boost? Seems that off boost, you'll be running much less timing than optimum. By dropping the CR by 1.3 point seems that even with 91, the timng could be aggressive when off boost. Just seems it would help off boost throttle response. The standard map seems a little sluggish for the combo of lower SCR and 91 pump. IMO.

 

the middle ringlands were the only ones affected

the reflash was done after the fact

couldn't notice a difference below boost with the refash, i believe the timing tard is only more agrressive in the higher rpm power band- 4500and up

 

WRT the ring lands , I meant were the lands cracked on the "skirted sides" looking down from the top of the bore or the pin bore sides or both?
.

Thanx

 

all three pistons were damaged on the intake side...
the middle ringland broke off, the piece was contained when i pulled the pistons out, hanging out for the ride in between the top and middle ring

the fracture was located 90 degrees off from the wrist pin

and WTF...no body commented on my polished front timing cover..come on now

 

Thanx, and BTW the timing cover is beautious.

 

These motors are nothing different that any other. The motor was always loud when I heard it, and it smoked. I don't think saying it wasn't built well was out of line. This motor should not have failed so soon.

 

Woooooh...well, since YOU said so, I guess we all have nothing to worry about...

This is a new engine to be modded, many kinks must be worked out for high HP applications...several top tuners in the country are discovering issues with this platform...it takes trial and error to get it right and design fixes for the problems...
-figuring out the ECU
-cooling issues
-who knows what is next

These ignorant statements don't earn you any points... you have never done anything to these motors besides bolt on accessories... and as a business, you are very low to critisize the build of an engine when you have seen it for less than a few minutes and have no other built 350z motor to compare it to...
as I said earlier, when you saw/heard the motor, this was after it had begun smoking, more than likely after the ringlands had broken...

Reguarding the post that you responded to...When one of the most well respected/ well known engine builders and tuners of THE 350Z MOTOR tells you to back off, consider this as a kind way of saying "you really don't know what you are talking about, and speak only when spoken to- you have nothing informative to add to this conversation"

this isn't your old Ford pickup with a blower on it...

 

Tood your really the only ignorant one. These motors ARE nothing different than any other. The basic rules of building motors still apply. Good machining, well balanced rotating assembly, having the correct clearances all lead to a well built engine. I doubt you had any of the above. I wouldn't trust anyone that said these are 'special' motors. Sounds like a cover up for not knowing what they're doing.

It's really sad your talking like these engines are so special, and even more that you have any idea what projects we're working on. However, we've got several customers that are getting a turbo/blower/motor combo. Just a few steps above bolt ons...

I don't really want to sift through anymore of your posting vomit either so carry on.

 

your = you're

I don't live anywhere near your shop, but if I did, then I sure as hell wouldn't let you work on my car. Not because of poor workmanship or lack of knowledge about my motor, but solely based on your bad attitude and poor work ethics. How you make a living is beyond me. Personally slamming customers and taking cheap shots at other shops work, what rational person would come to your shop and give you thousands of $$ after reading your attacks on this forum?

Not very professional IMO...

 

If you only knew what goes on down here...
This the same customer whose publicly slandered our shop on several occasions on several forums, public and national. You need to sit down and re-read what's going on here. I can't find anyplace that anyone was slammed other than myself. If saying the motor was built poorly is a cheap shot, fine. If that makes me the bad guy so be it

 

Well I don't pretend to know the whole story, but if I owned a shop and had beef with a customer, I'd keep it on a personal level, not smear each other on a public forum. I don't mean to stick my nose in your guys' business but I'd like to read and learn from the info posted in threads like these, not try to read around all the negative posts; mine included.

 

We don't have any grudges to any customers, present or past. Theres no reason too, but making a very understandable statement about the engine is hardly smearing. The pictures clearly indicate a problem with a few things. That's a very technically merriting statement, not an offending one.

I made the ignorant statement justfully. For someone that doesn't come into the shop nor has in months to make assumptions that we're doing bolt only, is just that. And actually, we're currently working with a very good builder in the state, suggested as the best, to develop a spec motor that will reliably handle 500 RWHP and a second to handle reliably 600 RWHP.
/off topic

 

Fair enough. I'd love to hear your opinions on issues like these but only if they're worded in a way that's not negative towards another shop or person.

Back on topic now! I'm very interested in this thread because one of these days I'll be pulling my own motor apart and shipping it off to get fully built, and it's really inspiring to see other non-mechanics like myself getting their hands dirty and doing it themselves.

 

I tend to agree with ccartwright here.

Regardless of how perfectly an engine is tuned and built, things can break. This is probably the first thing you learned...especially since few people are running racing fuels..but rather..91 and 93 octane stuff. There are plenty of shops pushing the physical limits of this engine, and ARE finding out that certain auxillliary systems in this engine are not suitable for really high boost.

I really don't mean this in a negative way, but try to have an open mind, and learn as much as you can from the experience of others with this motor...it is different than building a Honda or DSM motor. Sure the basics are the same, but there are very critical differences as you start pushing more and more power with the VQ.

Todd has been a customer of mine for a very long time, and I know you two have had your differences, but its best to keep those private. Yes, you and Todd slammed one other in another thread...but please try to bury the hatchet...this is a totally new thread...and a new discussion.

Back to the topic at hand, ring lands rarely crack due to poor engine assembly. Ring lands crack due to excessive heat, which usually leans to detontation...which cracks the lands. The death of every motor is directly related to heat. Whether this motor was running too lean, or whether the octane level was too low for 16psi, or whether the motor simply overheated....nobody will know for sure. The pistons show minor signs of overheating, but some more signs of detonation.

I cant comment on the sound of the engine, becuase I have never heard it. Todd is rebuilding his motor, and I will be flying down there to tune it....the goal will be a safe 500whp...due to the limitations with our stock cooling system. And no..an upgraded radiator wont help much...nor will an oil cooler. When you have a good relatioship with other shops and tuners, they tend to share more private info.....and vice verse.

 

SpeedDreamTuner: Some of what you say makes sense, but you must be forgetting some things. Not every engine is the same... after years of building them and everything is well know, you must take for granted what sacrafices others took to make it so easy for you.

Todd is talking about the cooling system so lets take that as an example... how many VG30DETT builds do you think had cooling system issues before someone showed the world how they need to clear the block of all the excessive casting flash? I see your a ford guy... how many engines had problems with localized heat before there was the Apten cooling mod and the improved copies to follow?

Dont take those small things for granted, cause it cost someone else thousands to figure it out, and its gonna happen to you if you think you can jump into a brand new engine and just change the pistons and rods and think your safe for 600hp... you better be doing more R&D than that, or at least know the right people who can help you with it... but either way even if you have personal issues with Todd outside of what we can see... all i can say is your making yourself look like an *******... not that I dont do that on a weekly basis... but just giving a heads up

 

Sharif,

Are you saying that the cooling system is adequate enough for 500whp daily driver?


I am starting to get very concerned about the cooling issue. Sorry guys but I don't want to be the test rat for the rest of the community. I should be getting my SPG Long back in a few weeks and I don't want to spend anymore money nor spend another 3 months of my life without my car. I amseriously thinking of keeping it around 475whp and calling it a day.

 

phunk makes a good point and it is something that I tell people everyday on the phone, the VQ35DE is still a very young motor in terms of pushing high horsepower through it. If you look at the lifespan of many of the high HP motors in the past, the RB, SR & VG's from Nissan even, many of them never really were pushed that hard while they were in production. The VG30DETT was not really pushed hard until several years after it stopped being available in the US.

Anyway, you just can't disregard the learning curve on any particular motor by saying they are all the same because they really are not, some are simply better able to handle large increases over stock power than others are.