Kinetix SSV Dyno Results
06-21-2005, 11:04 AM
#102
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Originally Posted by Gman2004
This is misleading.
SungNam's Z Vortech was not tuned out of the box before installing the SSV. He dynoed 338whp were most vortech that get tuned put down anywhere from 380whp-415whp on stock pullies.
SungNam's Z Vortech was not tuned out of the box before installing the SSV. He dynoed 338whp were most vortech that get tuned put down anywhere from 380whp-415whp on stock pullies.
06-21-2005, 12:33 PM
#103
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Originally Posted by lsdunique
If I am not mistaken, the first dyno numbers posted by sungnamZ were "untuned" before and after numbers. Please chime in SungnamZ but unless I am wrong, zero tuning was done between pulls. I dont even think the car came off the dyno.
His later "tuned" numbers were not used in our advertising, not in the magazine, nor are they on our website.
Also, our N/A numbers were untuned.
All cars are different, some people will be able to bolt on with no tuning, others may need tuning, and some people will run into problems tuning.
Is this so out of the normal when modifying FI Z's? Has any FI kit or modification to FI kits been across the board a bolt on and leave it item?
I definately do not want to mislead anyone, but we posted the numbers that the dyno gave back to us, nothing more, and nothing less.
His later "tuned" numbers were not used in our advertising, not in the magazine, nor are they on our website.
Also, our N/A numbers were untuned.
All cars are different, some people will be able to bolt on with no tuning, others may need tuning, and some people will run into problems tuning.
Is this so out of the normal when modifying FI Z's? Has any FI kit or modification to FI kits been across the board a bolt on and leave it item?
I definately do not want to mislead anyone, but we posted the numbers that the dyno gave back to us, nothing more, and nothing less.
Since I received the production Kinetix SSV IM my car was dynoed, retuned and dynoed. Ryan, who is currently performing tuning at Speed Dreams is responsible for attaining the 416 RWHP and 311 TQ.
The dyno graph shows Vortech SC with V4, Prototype, SSV and finally SSV with outstanding tuning.
06-21-2005, 12:38 PM
#104
makes more sense now
of course everyone notes that the red dyno curve is richer like all the others and it still made more power.
the retuned green line really doesn't scientifically say anything in comparison to the kinetix V4 plenum though without a tuned version with the V4 plenum
of course everyone notes that the red dyno curve is richer like all the others and it still made more power.
the retuned green line really doesn't scientifically say anything in comparison to the kinetix V4 plenum though without a tuned version with the V4 plenum
06-21-2005, 12:41 PM
#105
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Originally Posted by SungNamZ
Since I received the production Kinetix SSV IM my car was dynoed, retuned and dynoed. Ryan, who is currently performing tuning at Speed Dreams is responsible for attaining the 416 RWHP and 311 TQ.
06-21-2005, 12:45 PM
#106
he just said his V4 tune wasn't good and either was the SSV when he initially dynoed
later he tuned to the SSV
so in a way the dynos don't mean anything
the only thing we can be certain from that graph is the green line looks nice for his setup, but we have nothing to compare it to because there's no base dyno for V4 plenum being tuned
later he tuned to the SSV
so in a way the dynos don't mean anything
the only thing we can be certain from that graph is the green line looks nice for his setup, but we have nothing to compare it to because there's no base dyno for V4 plenum being tuned
06-21-2005, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Gman2004
If your car was tuned with the V4 and you got 338whp you should have none something was wrong. Again most vortech install are putting out about 380-415 tuned on the stock pulley. You could have got 338whp with the out of the box tune.
You are at 5200 ft. and knowone knows the R4 program. You can look at numbers from cars in California, Florida and Nebraska, but their numbers and maps are useless. Even Vortech Engineering suggested changing washer in the FMU to help with A/F adjustments. This was done, but have since returned to stock washer which made R4 adjustments easier and 416 RWHP possible with Ryan's outstanding tuning abilities at Speed Dreams.
Last edited by SungNamZ; 06-21-2005 at 02:23 PM.
06-22-2005, 07:23 AM
#109
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Originally Posted by Machupo
but there is twice as much Al here... masses are probably close to equal.
and in this case, the stock plenum will transfer more heat into the charge (more surface area, higher specific heat, and higher thermal conductivity).
in intercoolers and radiators, you don't care about the "out" temperature of the air, but in the manifold, since the only cold air is inside the tube and going into the engine, you don't want heat easily transferred into it. (The heat will go into the charge more readily than the under-hood air as it is much colder
)
and in this case, the stock plenum will transfer more heat into the charge (more surface area, higher specific heat, and higher thermal conductivity).
in intercoolers and radiators, you don't care about the "out" temperature of the air, but in the manifold, since the only cold air is inside the tube and going into the engine, you don't want heat easily transferred into it. (The heat will go into the charge more readily than the under-hood air as it is much colder
)2700 80.1
2800 80.2
2900 80.4
3000 80.5
3100 80.7
3200 80.8
3300 81
3400 81.2
3500 81.5
3600 81.7
3700 82
3800 82.3
3900 82.6
4000 82.9
4100 83.3
4200 83.7
4300 84.1
4400 84.6
4500 85.1
4600 85.6
4700 86.1
4800 86.7
4900 87.3
5000 88
5100 88.7
5200 89.4
5300 90.3
5400 91.2
5500 92.1
5600 93.1
5700 94.1
5800 95.2
5900 96.3
6000 97.5
6100 98.7
6200 99.9
6300 101.1
6400 102.5
06-22-2005, 07:42 AM
#110
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Originally Posted by Sharif@Forged
Precisely. When McDuck came in...he only had 340whp with the plenum. If we judged the plenum based on those results, it would clearly be unfair as well. But 421 is very healthy for his setup, including the plenum. I think he had a big smile on his face when he left. 
Sharif has made some very good points. In my case, I think the pulley played a decent part of my gains (more boost), the intake a small part (I do think it's better than the other pieces on the market, but not nearly by the amount Kinetix is advertising), and the tuning takes the lion's share of the credit.
I'd love to give CPRacing my car for another full day to see the max number they could pull, but I really don't want my car to blow up finding out! They still had a few degrees of timing to play with on my Z.
06-22-2005, 07:46 AM
#111
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Originally Posted by acg
I have seen people who make 380rwhp with just the vortech installed so I am not sure why McDuck only had 340rwhp.
The car also had headers on cams so how much can really be put down to the addition of the SSV?
The car also had headers on cams so how much can really be put down to the addition of the SSV?
For example, I stood there as my car dynoed 425/337 originally, but the car never felt that strong after I left. I think now we know why... different tune was put on the car before I left. Bastages!!!
06-22-2005, 07:59 AM
#112
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BTW, I did a post in Jeremy's thread showing the old best tune (425/337) vs the current tune on the car (418/340) Reposting this graph below.
I tried to make it more than obvious I was NOT looking for more peak power with my new setup, just more power under the curve. The graph shows that I did just that. The boost comes up earlier and I have significant 15-20ftlb and approximately 15hp gains all across the mid-range of my powerband. AND, this is being done on a much safer tune than before. Given more time, my car could be tuned even stronger, but I don't want to push it to the limit. Sharif may be able to help on the exact figures, but my understanding from Eric at CPRacing is they still had 3 or 4 more degrees of timing they could play with. How much more power is each degree of timing good for? 5hp? 10hp? 15hp?
My peak numbers are not improved from my best dyno ever because **I** elected to not have them tune me to a risky level. And as Sharif stated, my car rolled in at 340rwhp... due likely to A) 20K miles worth of wear, B) 20K miles since any tuning, c)addition of several minor mods over time, d)addition of the Kinetix IM which surely threw everything out of whack without any tuning, and e) some questions still about what tune my car actually left the first tuning shop with.
I tried to make it more than obvious I was NOT looking for more peak power with my new setup, just more power under the curve. The graph shows that I did just that. The boost comes up earlier and I have significant 15-20ftlb and approximately 15hp gains all across the mid-range of my powerband. AND, this is being done on a much safer tune than before. Given more time, my car could be tuned even stronger, but I don't want to push it to the limit. Sharif may be able to help on the exact figures, but my understanding from Eric at CPRacing is they still had 3 or 4 more degrees of timing they could play with. How much more power is each degree of timing good for? 5hp? 10hp? 15hp?
My peak numbers are not improved from my best dyno ever because **I** elected to not have them tune me to a risky level. And as Sharif stated, my car rolled in at 340rwhp... due likely to A) 20K miles worth of wear, B) 20K miles since any tuning, c)addition of several minor mods over time, d)addition of the Kinetix IM which surely threw everything out of whack without any tuning, and e) some questions still about what tune my car actually left the first tuning shop with.
06-22-2005, 10:31 AM
#113
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Nice numbers! I am liking your's and mine! As Sharif has said, a lot can be gained with a GREAT tune! I have posted my numbers so many times they are starting to get worn out. Any chance you could post your A/F numbers for others to see?
06-22-2005, 12:12 PM
#114
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Originally Posted by SungNamZ
Nice numbers! I am liking your's and mine! As Sharif has said, a lot can be gained with a GREAT tune! I have posted my numbers so many times they are starting to get worn out. Any chance you could post your A/F numbers for others to see?
edit: Also, note that my beginning boost dropped off at the end. This was due to the belt being loose. Otherwise, the final boost on the baseline would have been about 7lbs.
06-23-2005, 08:50 AM
#118
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Originally Posted by booger
Looks like your belt was slipping a little on your baseline after 6000rpm .
...
edit: Also, note that my beginning boost dropped off at the end. This was due to the belt being loose. Otherwise, the final boost on the baseline would have been about 7lbs.
06-23-2005, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by mcduck
BTW, I did a post in Jeremy's thread showing the old best tune (425/337) vs the current tune on the car (418/340) Reposting this graph below.
I tried to make it more than obvious I was NOT looking for more peak power with my new setup, just more power under the curve. The graph shows that I did just that. The boost comes up earlier and I have significant 15-20ftlb and approximately 15hp gains all across the mid-range of my powerband. AND, this is being done on a much safer tune than before. Given more time, my car could be tuned even stronger, but I don't want to push it to the limit. Sharif may be able to help on the exact figures, but my understanding from Eric at CPRacing is they still had 3 or 4 more degrees of timing they could play with. How much more power is each degree of timing good for? 5hp? 10hp? 15hp?
My peak numbers are not improved from my best dyno ever because **I** elected to not have them tune me to a risky level. And as Sharif stated, my car rolled in at 340rwhp... due likely to A) 20K miles worth of wear, B) 20K miles since any tuning, c)addition of several minor mods over time, d)addition of the Kinetix IM which surely threw everything out of whack without any tuning, and e) some questions still about what tune my car actually left the first tuning shop with.
I tried to make it more than obvious I was NOT looking for more peak power with my new setup, just more power under the curve. The graph shows that I did just that. The boost comes up earlier and I have significant 15-20ftlb and approximately 15hp gains all across the mid-range of my powerband. AND, this is being done on a much safer tune than before. Given more time, my car could be tuned even stronger, but I don't want to push it to the limit. Sharif may be able to help on the exact figures, but my understanding from Eric at CPRacing is they still had 3 or 4 more degrees of timing they could play with. How much more power is each degree of timing good for? 5hp? 10hp? 15hp?
My peak numbers are not improved from my best dyno ever because **I** elected to not have them tune me to a risky level. And as Sharif stated, my car rolled in at 340rwhp... due likely to A) 20K miles worth of wear, B) 20K miles since any tuning, c)addition of several minor mods over time, d)addition of the Kinetix IM which surely threw everything out of whack without any tuning, and e) some questions still about what tune my car actually left the first tuning shop with.
06-23-2005, 11:31 AM
#120
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Could it be that the gains seen from the SSV by Kinetix were just due to extensive tuning session? If they had kept the original plenum/IM installed and did 28 pulls maybe the results would be the same?